Award-winning filmmaker, recording artist, professor, and bestselling author MK Asante joins Zibby to discuss NEPHEW, an explosive, intimate, and innovative memoir written as a love letter to a nephew who was shot nine times and survived. MK highlights the intentional connections between this book and his first memoir, BUCK, and then delves into his inspirations: his nephew; his brother, who was killed; his grandfather, who fought in the Civil Rights Movement; and African American culture, particularly through the lens of hip-hop. He also reflects on his journey as a multidisciplinary artist, from collaborating with Dr. Maya Angelou to co-writing the Monday Night Football anthem with Snoop Dogg and Chris Stapleton.

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome, MK. Thank you so much for coming on. Moms don't have time to read books to discuss Nephew, a memoir in four part harmony. Congratulations. 

MK: Thank you so much. I appreciate that, Zibby.

Thanks for having me on. 

Zibby: Actually, I should hold it maybe like this, right? I'm holding it up for 

MK: It isIwell, you know, it'sthat's the question, right? 

Zibby: Yeah. Amazing. 

MK: I think, like, this grabs your attention more. 

Zibby: It does. Listeners who don't knowunderstand what we're talking about. So, Nephew is written in, like, basically white paint on a black surface, but it's written vertically, so you have to if you want to read it left to right, you have to, you know, tilt the book on its side.

Yeah. Yeah. That was a very complicated explanation. 

MK: Or tilt your head a little bit. 

Zibby: Or tilt your head. That's right. There we go. Yeah.

MK: But I think the thing about the title too, and the cover, is because you're familiar with the letters and the word, you kind of, even without tilting, you identify it, you know?

And for readers who are familiar with my first memoir, Buck, It actually, you know, I used the same designer for both covers, and they have quite, they're quite similar, just in terms of like, you know, Buck is black lettering on white. Both of these are hand painted, you know, these, these are not fonts, they're hand painted covers, and they kind of are the inverse of each other.

And uh, that's obviously for a reason. The reason, uh, being that they're related, the stories are related, the people are connected and related, and so there's a contrast there, but also a similarity connection. 

Zibby: Well, now I feel really terrible because I did not read your other book, and now, uh, can you fill me in, fill me in on the first book so that we can jump to the second book, which I did read.

MK: Yeah, no prob, no problem. Well, Buck was a memoir, you know, um, I always say, you know, Young Buck, Buck Wild, Buck Shots, Bucktown, Slave Buck, Black Buck, Make Buck, Buck Now, Buck Now. These are all the different meanings of Buck. But Buck was a memoir of my coming of age story about me in Philadelphia, growing up in the nineties.

My brother was incarcerated. Uh, my mom struggled with mental health issues, had, uh, you know, uh, a challenging relationship with my father that we eventually really resolved in the book. But, um, you know, the thing about that book is it's really also documents my love for writing, how I became a writer, how I found writing, how writing saved me, saved my life, how reading also saved my life.

So, you know, in the book I talk about, you know, becoming a reader. I mean, I got kicked out of multiple schools. I was having lots of trouble and, you know, I was finally in this alternative school, you know, and I got a blank page put in front of me and was told that I could write. Or to write and I I was used to rote memorization and regurgitation so I asked, you know, what do you want me to write and uh, the teacher said write anything you want So can I curse on it?

Zibby: Yeah, go ahead. 

MK: So I wrote fuck school on the paper and she said good keep going and that actually really changed my life in so many ways. Cause I was expecting her to throw me out of class. I was used to it. I would leave school and do my thing, but she forced me to You know, okay, keep going. And I'm like, well, what else do I have?

And so I started thinking and, and that was the beginning of, you know, me really tapping into the stories that I had around me, tapping into other stories. Like I said, becoming a voracious reader and a student of the craft. Um, and you know, that was when I was in high school a long time ago, but, uh, 

Zibby: Wait, but why were you kicked out of all the other schools?

MK: Oh, I was, uh, doing all types of things, you know, everything you don't want your young teenager to do. I was getting involved in, you know, it was hanging, you know, with the wrong crowd. You know, we're talking about Philadelphia. So we're talking about guns, drugs, you know, sex, all, all types of things that, you know, you don't want a teenager to do a young, you know, especially, you know, a teenager.

13 years old. Um, these are the things that I was, you know, involved in and were normal to me. So, so yeah, so I was getting kicked out. I got kicked out of school for, you know, not attending school for graffiti, for, for different reasons. But, um, ultimately it landed me in this, this, this, amazing alternative school that changed my life in a lot of ways.

And so that was what Buck was about. You know, it ended when I was kind of in high school, you know, ends at my, in high school, but it's those years, but 13 to 18, basically. And, and it also, the thing, the devices that I use in my new book, Nephew, they began in, in, in Buck. So for example, In my, in Buck, my mom's journal is integrated into the book.

I used to secretly read her journal, um, when I was a teenager because we were having trouble communicating. And so I would read her journal and try to understand what's going on. And, you know, she would have stories about her past in Brooklyn and her life now with my dad and, you know, they were going through a divorce.

And about me and my brother and all these observations, as you know, she's a beautiful writer. So that was integrated in, uh, lyrics, hip hop lyrics were also integrated into that book as well, but those lyrics were going to be coming from. Artists that I was listening to at that time in the nineties. So the artists that were influencing me and the lyrics that were influencing me and my brother's letters from jail are also integrated in, into, into Buck. And so that kind of quilted, layered, woven, uh, style that you see in Nephew is something that is, is also in Buck. 

Zibby: Interesting. Oh, I'm so annoyed. I didn't read it. I'm sorry. Okay. So now let's go to your new book, Nephew. Okay. Explain Nephew and so, I mean, okay. Tell the listeners.

What it's about and when you decided this should be a book and just all of it. Just tell the whole story please. 

MK: Yeah, definitely. You know, Nephew is a memoir in four part harmony. It's a memoir dedicated, it's written to my nephew, it's a letter to my nephew. And um, I began writing Nephew when my nephew died.

Was shot nine times and was in the hospital in Philadelphia. Uh, he was a teenager at the time. And, you know, I began writing this letter to him because there were so many things that I didn't share with him, you know, and I felt that they were starting to, when you don't know something, you can easily repeat it, you know?

And so the interesting thing and tragic thing about, you know, This story just in terms of just distant from the beginning is that my brother who I write about a lot in Buck, my brother, Uzi, and my nephew, they don't know each other. They've never met, you know, and, you know, my nephew is is now 18 years old, and he's shot.

He's in the hospital, and he doesn't know his dad at all. And he doesn't really know his dad's story. He doesn't know how this all came to be. So part of it is me explaining to my nephew, you know, what happened and who his dad is and what the story is because his dad is a, in so many ways, his dad is this brilliant man.

Who's my brother who I always looked up to growing up. And so I have so many things to tell him about that brilliance, but also about that darkness, you know, that, that also is, has prevented his dad from being in his life. And so part of it is, is that, and, and, and part of that story is. His dad's dad, right?

Zibby: Mm-Hmm. 

MK: My brother's, dad's dad, who's not my father, but is a man named Bob, who, you know, I knew only as being abusive to my mother. But, um, Bob wrote letters to God starting in 1971. Very powerful letters at the height of his heroin addiction and those letters are interwoven to God, interwoven into the fabric of the memoir.

And so. When I talk to Nasir about my nephew's name is Nasir when I'm telling him about his story it doesn't start just with his father's it we have to go back further Right to his grandfather who he also doesn't doesn't know and didn't know who's passed now and so part of it is that story, but then there's the story of who you are as a young black man in America, your ancestry, where you come from, you know, both my brother and my nephew are hip hop artists, you know, and hip hop music comes from blues, which comes from Negro spirituals, which comes from Africa, which, you know, Comes from also this idea, this duality of, you know, speaking English in America and having to use English as a common denominator for African people who don't necessarily speak the same language.

Because just to give you an example, there are 400 languages in Nigeria. So, when you think about African people coming to America in the, you know, 1600s, enslaved, they don't speak the same language. You know what I mean? It's not like, just because they're black, they speak the same language. They're speaking different languages, but what, what the commonality is English.

English is, is being forced upon them, right? But they still have to. Figure out how to speak English in a way that the enslaver can't understand. And so that's why you get black English or ebonics or hip hop. It's talking in a way that, you know, bad means good, right. Um, where things are reversed and flipped and, and, and, and all of that is.

Coded language. And so the music that comes out of that is coded. So when you look at a song like Wade in the Water that Harriet Tubman was famous for singing and composing, you know, you look at Wade in the Water. Those are instructions for enslaved Africans to Go in the water during their escape so that the bloodhounds can't sniff them out.

That would, the paddy rollers would have bloodhounds if you tried to escape. So all of this come, so I'm telling my nephew about our family history, our secrets, the addictions, the, the, the darkness, but also, Who, who you are in a larger context and what, what you're doing, putting that in the larger context for him to understand, because I see so much potential and talent, but also there's a recklessness to not understanding the power of the words and the, where it comes from and, and how it can be used.

I use examples like Biggie and Tupac and Nipsey Hussle and Big L and all these rappers who. I love and who he loves, but who we can see in their lyrics manifests so much death in their lyrics, you know, and ultimately, you know, the way that they describe their death is ultimately how they die. And I illustrate that in the book.

So just the power of words and meaning. So, so the book is a letter to my nephew, um, and it includes other letters, you know, letters from you know, like I said, from Bob writing to God, maybe my letters from my brother in incarcerated and includes letters that even my nephew wrote that he doesn't remember when he was a child with his grand, his other grandmother letters from my mother, Ina, who's a very central matriarch in this book.

She's the one that actually, really brings them together and ultimately and I don't want to give give that away, but we can go there if you want but but ultimately she's the one that is able to bring them together her and music so, you know, those are the the two things. 

Zibby: Oh my gosh. Well, the end result is incredibly powerful to read and unique original and it it's a multi sensory experience of pain and history and love, all of it wrapped up together, really powerful read, I have to say. So congratulations. 

MK: Thank you. 

Zibby: You're very talented. And it's rare to see someone use the form so differently and yet not lose the reader at all. It's, it's good, you know, it's well done. Well executed. And I'm sorry you had to go through all of this. I'm sorry, the waiting and the, you know, the, the fear and all of it, but you can, you take us through with you.

So thank you for that. 

MK: Yeah. Thank you. I think my background, you know, as a poet, a songwriter, um, a screenwriter, uh, a performer, uh, a professor, uh, all those things feed into kind of the way that I, I write a filmmaker, documentary filmmaker, you know, I'm in the studio now that I write about in the book, um, wonderful sound studios.

And so all of those kind of inform how I think about the memoir. And I'm also, when I said I became a voracious reader when I was a teenager, and I, you know, still, I still, you know, you know, as you have what moms with, who don't have time, I'm a dad, I'm a dad with, you know, limited time, but so it's getting harder and harder to be as voracious as I was when I was. 

Zibby: I don't think dads with limited time sounds good.

I don't think that has quite the same ring to it. 

MK: It totally doesn't. I got to work on that one. But, um, but you know, it's, but I, but because that love of reading, I've always been really moved by experimental writers and writers who are doing things that, you know, are different, you know, especially at that time, you know, sometimes those things that were different, you know, Then our kind of standard course now, right, you know, because it becomes a part of the mainstream.

But when they were doing it, it was, it was like, whoa, you know, and I think, um, that those kind of authors and books have inspired me. 

Zibby: So can you explain a little more about the rest of your life? How are you doing all those different things? And a dad and an author Professor, I mean, when are you doing what and tell the listeners more about like, let's say now they're like, oh I have to go down this rabbit hole and find everything out about MK.

MK: Yeah, definitely, you know Let me let me just break it down. You know, i'm a professor at morgan state university I've been a professor there for 16 years and you know, I also am a filmmaker I said so you know, I was lucky to be able to work with Dr. Maya Angelou. She was a mentor of mine. So me and Dr. Maya Angelou made a film together called The Black Candle.

This film came out in 2009. And, um, it was a documentary and she narrated it. I directed it and we co wrote it together. And that was the beginning of a mentorship. You know, she helped me with my book, Buck, and she wrote a beautiful letter to me that actually described a nephew and The part of that letter is, is a blurb for Buck

But that was a, a really powerful relationship in, in my life. And you know, I, so I've made several films. Right now I'm working with Idris Elba, uh, on a film series. And, uh, I also am a songwriter. So if you watch Monday Night Football and you see the song with Snoop Dogg and Chris Stapleton and Julie Santana, I co-wrote that song with Phil Collins.

It's. remix. So I co wrote the official Monday Night Anthem last year. And I'm also in this studio was actually just finishing it for this year as well. So I do that. I, uh, also co wrote the NBA finals with Spike Lee in 2021, the, uh, short film series that Spike Lee did. And, um, you know, I've written Buck and Nephew.

But before that, I wrote three other books, uh, two books of poetry, like Water Running Off My Back and Beautiful and Ugly Too. And I also wrote a book called It's Bigger Than Hip Hop, which is a nonfiction book. And yeah, you know, I've lectured around the world. I've traveled over 50 countries and, you know, done extensive work teaching in Africa and other parts of the world.

You know, I've had different shows on different platforms and, you know, You know, and, and yeah, I'm a dad. I coach my kids' basketball team and soccer team and you know, I'm on the PTA garden committee and all that . 

Zibby: I am totally impressed. I am, yeah. Totally impressed. Wow. 

MK: Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's fun. You know, they, I, as you know, you know, they inspire you to, to, to be your best, so 

Zibby: that's true.

Wow. Well, I have to say, we watch Monday Night Football every week because my husband is a huge, huge football fan, and in fact, if you were in my apartment, you would see in the next room, we have football helmets from every single team. 

MK: Oh, wow. 

Zibby: I have books, and he has all the football helmets arranged by division, subdivision.

Four helmet kind thing. 

MK: Wow. 

Zibby: So, yeah, I'll have to send you. 

MK: So you definitely know the song I'm talking about song. 

Zibby: So I definitely know the song that you're talking about. 

MK: Yeah, yeah. So, so yeah. So I, I, I, I work with Snoop and we're gonna be actually recording with Snoop tonight. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So, yep. But yeah, so, you know, it's, it's multifaceted.

I think of all these different think mediums that I work in. I think of them as like languages. You know, so if you can speak Spanish or Swahili or French or, you know, whatever language fill in the blank, you can communicate with certain people, you know, and so I look at art in that way that okay, I have an idea and maybe it's a, it's a memoir.

Okay. And, and so that is one language to communicate an idea, but With Buck and now with Nephew. A Nephew Soundtrack comes out October 31st, but Buck had a soundtrack. There's also a soundtrack that goes with this book. You know, you know, this Buck, uh, project is being developed into a film, so. All of these projects usually have several different expressions in terms of the languages that they can be communicated in, you know, and so I think about languages.

What is the best way to communicate? What is the best language to communicate this idea? Is it a song? Is it a poem? Is it a book? Is it a film? Is it a documentary? Is it an article? You know, is it just a Twitter rant? I don't know. I don't rant on Twitter, but I'm just saying, you know, what, how do I express this idea?

What's the best way? You know, what's the best language to communicate it? And I think that started, I'll tell you a funny story. When I wrote my first book, like water running off my back, a very thin, almost like a pamphlet, but it wasn't a pamphlet, but it was a very, uh, what do they call it? A, a light tone, but it, a very, uh, thin book, but it was a poetry book.

My first book, I was 20 years old and I came out to my cousin's, uh, apartment and he lived in the Bronx. So I was out there with them and, uh, a building called Tracy Towers. And I remember I said, you know, he said, I heard you got a book and I said, yeah, man, I was very proud of myself. And, um, he said, I don't know why the hood don't read.

And that broke my heart when he said that he said the hood don't read. And that book came out in 2002. And so in 2005, I came out with my first film in 2008 came out with a, so, you know, that was important to me because a couple of things, one, it made me realize that, okay, um, to some extent he's, he don't, to the only extent he's right is the extent A couple extents.

One is that there's some people who can't read, right? There's people who are illiterate. So that's a fact. And, but illiterate people, for example, listen to music, watch films, you know, it doesn't. So, so, so there was a, that fact, right? But there was also the fact that sometimes we think like, there's this quote that I love, and it's not really a quote, better than the quote.

I met a prison guard in Portland who said, I give your books, MK Asante, to kids who hate reading. Because it's not that they hate reading, it's just that they might not like what you're putting in front of them, right? And so, you know, the quote that I was thinking of originally is, Kids who hate reading just haven't found the right book, or something of that nature, you know?

You know, when you find something that you identify with, that you, you know, You, it excites you, that is written for you in some ways, you know, it grabs you in a different way and it makes you a reader, you know, I've had so many people with my first book, Buck, you know, it's part of the curriculum in Philadelphia and Baltimore and Oakland and, and all these places.

I've had so many students and even teachers tell me that the kids steal the books. They can't get, you know, they're supposed to bring the books back. They never had books. So. Books disappearing and those are good things to hear, you know, not you don't want people stealing But you know if you're gonna steal a book, you know, it's okay.

You know what I mean? It's no big deal. So, you know, that's kind of you know impetus for me. 

Zibby: Wow I know I own a I own a bookstore in Santa Monica called the Zibby's bookshop and there's been a bunch of crime and break ins on the block that we were talking about security and all the stuff and I'm like I'm like what are they gonna, they're gonna what, steal our books and sit there and read?

Okay, you know, not that I want people to steal books, but you know, what are they gonna take? They're gonna take another book? 

MK: Well, Zibby, first of all, I want to say congrats on the bookstore. I've heard about it. In fact, someone sent me a picture the other day. There was a photo of a nephew was there and I was like, oh, that's what's up.

So thank you for that and, uh, I, when I get out to Santa Monica, I can't wait to stop by, but I tell a story in a, in a, in a film that I did many years ago, I tell a story about my brother's house got broken into in Philly and, you know, I, I was there when, You know right after the break in so we came back and like everything was just trashed You know what?

I mean, they took everything they were taking they Unscrewed the outlet covers and like took those off right so they were stripping the place right? Zibby get to the bookshelf every book is pristine not even touch they didn't even like, they didn't even, it was like the books were made a kryptonite. Like you imagine a completely trashed place, everything, books completely untouched.

I mean, it was, it was not a funny moment, but it was hilarious. You know what I mean? The fact that they didn't, Want anything to do with books. We can't give them away. Like you would think out, like you would think they would, you know, I'm a writer. So I'm like, okay, what would, you know, what would a thief do?

You would at least look behind the bookshelf. Maybe there's something, you know, some money stats, they didn't even bother. So I thought that was, uh, hilarious, but I'm sorry to hear about the break ins. 

Zibby: No, no, they ended up not breaking in, but good point. Now, maybe I'll start hiding things in books. I don't know.

Well, if you end up out there, please let us know. So. 

MK: Will be out there and I'll be in the fall in the fall. 

Zibby: Okay, perfect. Oh my gosh. MK. I'm so impressed with you. I have so much respect. Oh my gosh. You are like, just so impressive and I am so grateful to that teacher. You know, I found so much in this podcast that it.

It always, not always, it often comes down to one teacher identifying talent or inspiring in some way to turn someone's life in a totally different direction. So hats off to her. I'm so glad that all of your talent is out there in the world. And thank you for this powerful read for myself and my own experience reading it and hopefully all the other people who will read it and now I'm going to go back and read Buck. 

MK: Thank you so much. Thank you, Zibby. It's been a pleasure and an honor. And, um, so much respect to you, your bookstore and shout out to your husband as well. 

Zibby: Thank you. Yeah. Say, say hi to Snoop for me. 

MK: Yeah, I will.