Zibby is joined by chart-topping, Grammy Award-winning, multi-platinum recording artist Joanna “JoJo” Levesque to discuss her instant New York Times bestselling, breathtakingly candid new memoir, OVER THE INFLUENCE. JoJo reflects on her 20-year journey in the music industry, delving into her relationships, her mother’s struggles with mental health, the toll of losing her father, and how she overcame industry pressures and found her voice. She also reflects on her writing journey, the role of social media, and her best advice for aspiring artists.

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome, Jojo. Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books to discuss your amazing memoir Over The Influence. 

Jojo: Thank you so much. 

Zibby: Oh my gosh, you took me on such a ride. I feel like I have whiplash from all learning so much so fast about the music industry, which I didn't really know much about and what it's like being on the other side of that and all of the deals and the pitfalls.

And I know that there were so many layers to the book, but the business of the industry part I also found really fascinating. Talk a little bit about why you decided to start, why you decided to write a memoir now. And then I want to hear a little bit about your ruminations on, on the industry at large.

Jojo: So this year is 20 years since I put out my first album and I started to think about how crazy that is at 33 to say that I've been doing the same thing for 20 years, not the same thing, a lot of different things in this time. But I started to think about the way that I frame my life and the way that we can can look at the same thing from from different angles.

Like I used to feel, I think, very. upset and resentful about certain things that that happened in my career or different challenges that that came up and instead over over the years I've chosen to look at those things as Exactly what was supposed to happen, you know, hinge points that had me pivot to a new direction and get creative again and say, instead of being upset, what, you know, what creative solutions can we come up with here and stuff.

So I love reading memoirs and autobiographies and I love reading about people who I know and people who I don't know who might have an interesting story to share. So in that spirit, I was like, Do I have the audacity to write, you know, right now to write about my life? And it really did feel like the time to do it.

I wanted to share in a different way than through song. You know, songs can convey a lot in three minutes or however long they are, but I was interested in trying something else and something, um, a deeper way to connect with people. I think connection is something that I'm most interested in right now.

Zibby: Well, you can tell the value and the depth of all of your relationships in the book as well and friendships and family and all of that. I mean, there's so much heart and soul just like spilled into these pages. It was, it was such a raw and yet analytic look at so many different things all at once. Like I really found it to be such a, such a journey.

Jojo: Oh, I mean, I, I know I, I, as I was, editing it with my editor, Carrie Napolitano. I was like, what to keep in there? You know, I wrote way more than I needed to and then distilled it back from there. But it is raw, like you said, for sure, because I am not, I haven't spent my whole life writing memoirs. This is my first time doing something like this, but I needed it to be in my own voice, especially after my experience with being told.

And being conditioned, I think, to trust other people's opinions and expertise over my own. And when you're young, that makes sense. But at a certain point, you really have to find your own voice. And I think the title over the influence speaks to just being like, this is a new chapter, a new way of being for me of saying, no, exactly as I am right now, it's good enough.

It's gonna, you know, it's, It's going to reach who it's meant to reach, and maybe that's just me, even. 

Zibby: Wow. What a, I mean, I love that place of, I mean, it's like watching you grow up and having such a mature view of like, everything that's happened. And you could be angry. I mean, reading all the, you know, plot twists of your life and the way you were managed.

And my husband and I were listening to one of your songs. I was like, actually, this is not the song she wanted to come out at this time. Like she, they made her do this song just so you know, her voice was actually a little bit different and she could have been on Nickelodeon and all this stuff. So, you know, in a way you represent.

what it is to be sort of a pawn in a giant industry out of your control, and how do you, with the help of just your mom at the beginning, and Katie now, and you know, how do you navigate when everyone is telling you what you're supposed to do, and what's gonna work, and how do you not Like, assert what you want and how do you always, you know, I don't know.

I found it really, really fascinating and also a cautionary tale for others and many who can get swept up in, in not believing or, or always deferring to other people when we don't really know inside what, what is, what's going to work, right? 

Jojo: We do. I think we all do have that internal guidance system within us, but some are just more disconnected than others.

You know, things can suppress that or just, you know, kind of snuff out that voice. And it's been a process of me trying to get back in touch with listening to those, those guidances within myself as opposed to being externally led. And so I, that's what I think can be one of the negatives of starting out so young, you don't have your sense of self developed and you have a mushy brain.

Of course, you know, that's. I was, um, at, at my New York book signing, Dr. Jeremy Nobel came and spoke and was talking about the connection with like sense of self and loneliness. Like that's, that's, that's what he, that's what he teaches about at Harvard, I believe and that's what I think can be really dangerous.

Like, like I said, it just to your personal development is that it's going to be stunted because you don't learn how to rely on yourself for certain things. And that self trust and that authenticity is everything I think to living a happy life and having genuine connections with people and being a part of society and contributing and all that stuff.

I just think that those seeds of confusion were planted in me pretty young. And even though my mom was managing me and she, she was like, she wanted me to follow my heart, but I was like, no, I think we need to follow the opinions of these people that know better than us in this area because they've had success.

So from a young age, I think I was kind of savvy in that regard and it's kind of, it's weird, but I'm through writing this book, it was interesting to look back and see patterns of relinquishing control and until it, until it took me, you know, 15, almost 20 years to be like, wait. I'm an authority in this area now.

Like I know just as much, if not more than these people that I was looking to, certainly at this point. 

Zibby: Well, the book is not just about the journey through contracts and whatever that was just one sliver that, you know, taught me a lot, but really the heart of the book is about your relationships and your relationship with your mom and how, um, you know, she was depressed for a long time, suicidal, how you had to handle that and your career at the same time, which was heartbreaking.

I mean, it's heartbreaking at any age to deal with that. But. Especially in the midst of all of that. And the loss of your dad, which just like had my eyes welling up because, oh my gosh. And then your friend. I mean, it's like you, and then being cheated on 8 million times. I'm like, when is this girl getting married?

No, I mean, I know you had fame and have fame and all that. And that's lovely and everything and success in that way. But when you feel like you just keep losing things that you love, that is so 

Jojo: hard. But I think that's so many people's experience and that's why I didn't want to just talk about career accolades or, or things like that.

Like, Yeah, my story is a music industry cautionary tale and success story, but it's also very much, you know, about relationships, like, like you said, so I couldn't tell, I couldn't share about my own life without bringing that into it. And also just like the, the timing of things and, and sharing, like, I felt like life was going to unfold this way and then this traumatic event happened or I lost this person or there was cheating or, you know, whatever.

And then that sent me on a different path. And I think that that's that's how my experience has been but I think that's As people are sharing with me what this book brought up for them, it's, it's really been cool. And also like, damn, I'm sorry that you had to go through that. But you know, people are telling me that they relate to a lot of these, um, these themes.

And I hope it makes people think about, you know, framing their life because there was periods of time where I was just really, I was like, why does this keep happening to me? You know, or what, but the truth is like, I think I, you know, I was creating a lot of chaos as, as well. Not with, you know, people passing on, obviously, but I think I was in so much pain that then I created more pain.

Zibby: Well, I don't know. By the time we got to the engagement, I was just like, are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? 

Jojo: I know, me too. Honestly, I thought that was going to be my happy ending. I'm like, oh, I've made it like, I deserve this. This is great. Oh, my God. You know, my prince charming and but life unfolds in ways that you never expect.

And but how amazing that after that I mean, it sent me on a path. Now I'm living in New York and I'm living a new dream. You know what I mean? So that's kind of how I I'm grateful. I really am for the way that everything has happened. It's just so weird and funny to look back on it all. And it's kind of cool that this, I have this time capsule now that I can share with people.

Zibby: Just one paragraph in particular with the loss of your friend, or can I,.. 

Jojo: Leah LaBelle. 

Zibby: Yes. I lost a friend. I mean, I know you're probably sick of everybody saying, I lost this. I lost that. I lost. 

Jojo: No, I'm not. 

Zibby: I am. I lost my best friend on 9 11 who was my college roommate. This is years ago, but I, I don't know when I read about other people losing friends, I know that everything is different, but that unique loss of losing someone so young at the same age, I was 25.

Anyway, can I just read this passage? You know, now I'm old, old and gray. Well, Thanks to my colorist, not Greg, but whatever. 

Jojo: You're young, hot, and hip. I mean, I'm seeing you on the screen. You look very cool. 

Zibby: You said, uh, She had lives to touch, songs to make, trips to take. We had plans to raise our future kids together and protect them all from the pitfalls we'd learned and grown from.

Those dreams were now suspended in time. We wouldn't get the chance to grow old together. She'd be forever young. Losing someone your age who you assume you'll have around for the rest of your life fundamentally changes you. How is this person who was sharing takeout pasta with you on your couch a couple weeks ago just gone?

It was a harsh reminder that aging is a privilege, and life rarely goes the way we plan it. We are mortal and fragile, and tomorrow is never promised, no matter how much we deserve it. 

Jojo: Oh, I'm sure you know exactly what I'm talking about there.

Zibby: I do, and I'm so sorry for your loss. 

Jojo: I'm so sorry for your loss.

That's, that's That is really crazy. 

Zibby: Well, you've wrote about it really beautiful, and I know this will touch the hearts of so many people. You know, you also have another strain of the book about food and health, which I also found really fascinating. How food and what it can do to you and taking care of your body.

Right. Leads your dad into one direction that you felt sort of powerless to pull him back. And then at the same time, you're sort of abusing your own body and trying to manage the late night binge eating and you know, the expectations on your own body and then going into the uber wellness category for awhile with the yoga and all that and juicing and the whole thing, which a phase, you know, for so many people, where do you, like, how do you look back on all of that now?

And. Where are you in terms of feeling good in your body and all of that? 

Jojo: Yeah, it's, it's such a journey of experimentation of like, you know, how, what are my values and what makes me feel good. And I will say that losing my dad and seeing him be trapped inside his own body. I mean, that's what I felt like he was, you know, he was so much spirit and so much soul, but he really couldn't move.

You know, he wasn't able to go out and do things and have the freedom of just. walking through the city and walking through the airport even. And I wanted him to travel with me and I wanted us to go do things together. And he couldn't, and he wanted to, you know what I mean? But because he was unhealthy, you know, and he was, I think his, his addiction wasn't just to substances.

It was also food, you know, and numbing emotions in different ways. So that was a major devastation, obviously. And a wake up call, I think, for me to. Say wow, I have one shot with this body that I have and I want to see what it can do I I want to be able to I want to honor it And my mom has been an amazing example of, you know, her connection with nature and getting out and moving her body and researching how she could even improve her depression with nutrition and her anxiety and things like that.

And so she and I kind of after my dad passed, you know, they weren't together, but she was. Deeply affected by it as well because they, they made me and we, we are still, you know, a family in, in that way. So she and I both got really interested in, in those things. And it was really cool to go through this journey of, of reading and learning with her kind of together and separately.

And, um, I would say that where I'm at with it is I think I'm in a, in a balanced place with it. Like now I just really enjoy moving. I really enjoy sweating. I really. I think that the best exercise is whatever you are you're gonna do. You know what I mean? So it could be walking, yoga, strength training, like literally anything.

You, you like to dance, you like to, I'm, I'm into it all. So over the years, I've like acquired a lot of tools that, that can make me feel good and, and alive and connected and out of my head and into my body because I can spend a lot of time in my head. And I think that yoga specifically is like a great thing for me to connect.

Breath to movement and get into a flow state where I'm not over analyzing things. I'm just moving. And, um, yeah. And with eating that that binge eating was definitely a big comfort and a big shame in this pattern that I was in for a long time. I think, you know, it's not like I can say that that'll never come back and be apart.

But I think that I'm just Experiencing a lot of I feel like I'm happy right now and I'm not running from my feelings for a long time. I was Not taking the time to feel them. I just wanted to stuff them down, which I'm out with it. 

Zibby: I feel like the book itself is gonna be, I mean, I know it's just come out, you know, as we're talking, but I feel like it's gonna be so freeing for you to know that it's all out there and that there's no more hiding.

And do you feel that way now that it's out?

Jojo: I do. I'm much better at being vulnerable than of trying to uphold something that. Isn't true. And my fans have been like defending me and writing for me so hard. And I also wanted them to know some of the things, some of the areas in which I contributed to certain things.

And I do feel liberated though, in, in, in sharing and maybe oversharing, you know, in some, some parts of the book. But I was like, if I'm going to go for it, I'm going to go all like a boss of all with it. 

Zibby: I love how, like, self referential you are, you know, at times when you're like, okay, I kind of don't want to say all this about somebody I love, but I'm just going to go for it.

So here I go. And then like at the end and you're like, here I am and I'm, I'm writing the ending and can you believe this? And you know, it's hard to put it down without being like, yes, go. We're really all on things. No, I mean it, it's like, yeah, . I wanted to be like, I can't wait to see what happens next.

Wait, tell me more about this latest phase of your life and performing and Broadway and like the whole thing. That's so exciting. Yeah, and I always watch, you know, I'm from New York and like, how do these people do this every night? And like it's such a physical thing and like emotional and then what?

They're just gonna be like sitting next to someone on the subway. You're not even gonna know what they just did, you know? 

Jojo: It's such an amazing community and it takes so many people behind the scenes and like, there's, I've, I've learned so much and I'm so, so moved by like all these different productions here on Broadway and just musical theater in general, because yeah, it's like you just get to experience such a high range of emotion, uh, in two and a half hours.

And I love that. It's so fun to get outside myself too, to play a different character, someone who I can relate to in some ways. And thanks to the team at Moulin Rouge! It's been so cool. And, and it came into my life at the time. Well, I actually, I, I sought it out. I, I was like feeling like I, uh, wanted to be back on the East coast.

I'm feeling like I wanted to reconnect with my roots and so I just kind of put it out into the universe. I was like, I asked my agent, is there any musical theater opportunities you think? Cause that's how I started actually. And, and it so happened that yeah. They were looking for someone and, and then, you know, I, I got to do it for the first time last year and it makes me feel like a little kid.

I feel like I've finally found a sense of community because we're all little weirdos just in adult bodies now and it's just so much fun. It is hard. It definitely is hard work. And I actually didn't know what that schedule was like until I became a part of it. Like when I would come see Broadway shows or go to a show in the West End in London or wherever, a regional production, I had no idea that we're doing it eight times a week.

I was like, these people are so good. There's no way they must be just doing it like on the weekend or whatever. And I just didn't put it together. I'm like, Oh my God, this is really, I've been told that it's like, you know, the nine to five of, of entertainment low key. And, but it is so fun. And I really.

I've come to love the whole company and, um, and it's, it's a world that I, I realized that I really want to continue to be a part of and develop things from behind the scenes to as a producer, um, as a writer. And I just have so much respect for the people that, that do this and I'm having fun with it.

Zibby: That's amazing. So amazing. Well, when you look back on, on everything and as you sort of chart the course forward and obviously none of us know what's coming next for us, but you know, there's so much in your story that's inherited trauma from, you know, the car accident that your mom was in and then yeah like all the, all the things that everyone in your family before you has gone through and held on to and then your own past sort of on top of it and being able to sort of rise from the ashes, if you will, right. And just like steady yourself. Is there something, do you have a mantra? Like, is there, is there anything that you take with you and you say every day, like, okay, this is what I'm, this is how I'm getting out of bed.

Jojo: Hmm. I mean, I've had many different mantras, I think throughout my life, uh, definitely the only way out is through is something that I think about a lot. Be here now is another thing because I'm constantly in the future or in the past and, you know, just kind of one foot in front of the other is. And I think my, my foundation of growing up in AA with, you know, both my parents being a part of that program, I think about the serenity prayer a lot.

And I guess that's kind of a mantra and it's, God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. I think a lot about wisdom and courage in this chapter moving, um, yeah, in like this life chapter of mine moving forward.

And now I'm at a place where I feel so just blessed and fortunate to still be here and to experience, um, a lot of joy. And I, and I want to find ways to. To give back and to build community and deepen connections with. My fans and beyond though and just see how how I can Yeah give back because I just feel like I have been been given so much.

Zibby: That's amazing Okay, last question What would you say for girls who have amazing singing voices? Probably not As good as you, but there are a lot of girls out there or boys who have immense talent and they're young and they should take care of it. I know you, you know, you write about not taking care of your voice properly as well on a physical standpoint, but like, what do you say to those future stars or, you know, should they go down this road?

Should they wait until they're in college? Like, do you just, do you have, if you could look back essentially to the younger you or the aspiring talent of today, what would you say? 

Jojo: I would say just explore your voice because, well, I would say also singing is one thing like performing. Singing is one thing.

Being a part of an industry and being a cog in the system is another thing. So ask yourself, you know, what, what do you really want? Do you want to be famous? Do you want to sing? Just if you can clarify that vision so you don't get whisked around in different directions that don't feel right. I will say that if you have one person who believes in you, that is something that is so, so priceless.

You know, I had my mom and she gave me the support that I needed to go off into the world and, and follow my passions. And she made that possible. And, um, so don't take those people who believe in you for granted. They're everything. And, um, I would say in, in today's day and age, like if you're, if you're not on Tik TOK and Instagram, you should be.

And you should be putting up videos and you should be sharing your gifts with people. And I do believe in that, like build it and they will come type thing. I think that, you know, just this is the time we live in and gifts, your gifts are meant to be shared. Don't be afraid. Try not to think yourself out of it.

Just enjoy your gifts and experiment, play with them and, and play with other people too. Who, you know. You know, like put together, you're a singer and you know, musicians or, you know, producers or whatever, like collaborate with them. I think that that is so important too. And I think we grow so much when we, when we co write or when we collaborate in different ways.

So that's my long winded answer about what I would encourage. 

Zibby: Long winded is perfectly welcome. I'm totally impressed. I also think you have a great writing voice as someone who, like you, consumes memoirs, you know, frantically. I love them. 

Jojo: Coming from you, I so appreciate that. Thank you. 

Zibby: I mean it. Keep writing and keep sharing and, you know, I don't know, start a sub stack or something.

Like I want to keep reading as you go along. 

Jojo: It's something I want to shout out is my uncle, Scott Blagdon. He is a published author. He has this book called Dear Life, You Suck. 

And it is so good. It came out, I don't know, maybe six years ago. And he is the one also that made me, you know, I, I asked him before I, um, submitted my like proposal or my, I wrote like a page about my life when I was going out to different publishers and stuff.

I was like, You know, what advice do you have for me? And he really held my hand through this process. And he has such a voice as a writer. And he, and yes, I know him really well, but I just think it's, his writing style really inspired me also, I think, to find my own voice. So I just want to shout him out.

He's so great. 

Zibby: Amazing. Wow. I feel like, I'm so proud of you having finished your book, like, where you are right now. So I'm just, um, yeah, thank you for letting us in and I'm really, really wishing you all the best. I'm excited for you and where, where life will go. 

Jojo: Thank you for taking the time with it. I'm so appreciative.

Zibby: My pleasure. Okay. Thank you. 

Jojo: Bye. Have a good one. 

Zibby: Have a good one.