Zibby is joined by the founder of RLVNT Media and middle-grade author Tina Wells to talk about her latest book, Honest June, which is now out exclusively at Target. The two talk about the role magazines like Cosmopolitan and Seventeen played in the early days of their careers, what inspired Tina to start writing middle-grade novels, and how her marketing research still impacts everything she does today.

Transcript:

Zibby Owens: Welcome, Tina. Thank you so much for coming on “Moms Don’t Have Time to Read Books” to discuss Honest June and all your other amazing books and activities and your awesome career and everything else.

Tina Wells: Zibby, thank you for having me. I have been anticipating this for a while. I’m super lucky to join you on Honest June‘s unofficial pub date at Target today. It’s also a really nice day to be having this conversation.

Zibby: Yes, that’s so exciting. Why unofficial? I saw on your Instagram how today’s the day and all of that. Tell me about it.

Tina: I’m sure we’ll get into this, but I struck some pretty unique deals in publishing. I have one series that’s exclusive to Target for a year called The Zee Files. That will go wide next spring. Honest June has a three-month exclusivity at Target as well. It was in the circular this weekend. I’ve really enjoyed this partnership. We kind of came up with this model. It’s been working really well. Super excited for June to hit shelves today.

Zibby: So cool. Wait, first talk about what Honest June is about. Then I want to dive into this publishing arrangement you have because I’m fascinated.

Tina: My publishers, Penguin Random House, have described it as Ella Enchanted meets Dork Diaries. I had this idea for June around the same time I did my first series, Mackenzie Blue. Obviously, The Zee Files is a spinoff of Mackenzie Blue. The idea was about a girl who couldn’t tell a lie and how that created drama for her in middle school. I’m a middle-school, middle-grade writer. I love that time of life. I love the natural drama that exists and coming into your own and figuring out who you are. Add to that this layer that a fairy godmother blesses you with the ability to not lie, I just thought it would be really funny. Then bringing June’s world to life and her friends and everything has been a lot of fun. That’s the premise. June cannot tell a lie. She goes into a funhouse at a community carnival. She plays a Two Truths and a Lie game. She loses. She’s blessed with the ability to only tell the truth, which is really difficult for her. I would say on a deeper level, June suffers from anxiety. She doesn’t quite know what that means yet. I’m sure you know over the last two years, so many children are dealing with anxiety, whether pandemic-related or otherwise. I really wanted to write about a girl who is going through her own trial. Imagine that she’s got anxiety but also can’t lie. She can’t protect people that she loves. It delves into, what’s a good lie versus a bad lie? and with a lot of humor. It’s definitely a fun read.

Zibby: It reminded me of — have you read Clementine, the Sara Pennypacker series? It has a similar voice in that it’s clever and funny and really likable. It just has a similar tone. Those are some of my favorite that I read to my kid years ago. You should check it out.

Tina: I will. That’s great company, so thank you.

Zibby: I totally related, honestly, to June — honestly, ha ha, didn’t mean to say — because of her people-pleasing inclinations and wanting to just make everybody happy all the time. Then she’s robbed of the way to do it. It’s actually almost like a horror book, in a way. I know it’s a fairy godmother. As someone who has tremendous anxiety myself, which I didn’t even realize was a thing — I thought everybody had anxiety. Actually, to be honest, so many people do have anxiety right now. It’s sort of the baseline for everyone. That idea that you’re robbed of the thing that smooths out the feathers, if you will, of — that’s a bad expression. Just not to have that ability seems daunting, in a way.

Tina: It totally is. I can relate. I’m the oldest of six children. My parents definitely had great expectations for all of us, and so children that imagine — for me growing up, I was always the one that they asked, did so-and-so do this thing? You have to tell us. Even being in that position, I’m like, I am so glad that I could figure out how to finagle that and not just have to — although, I’m told I have no poker face, so I always gave things away anyway. The idea that we’re robbed of that thing that helps us maneuver situations is what’s intriguing about .

Zibby: Now I feel like I’m saying I lie all the time, which is not true at all. Now I’m like, wait, that’s not representative either.

Tina: I don’t actually think June is lying all the time. I think she is figuring out how to figure things out at the age when we really have to start figuring things out. Her dad wants her to go to Howard University. June has no interest. She doesn’t know how to say, I’m twelve, I don’t know where I want to go to college. She’s got that expectation. He wants her to do sports. She really wants to do art. We just finished the second book, which is called The Show Must Go On. It’s about her starring in The Wiz, which was a musical I loved growing up. In that book, we really play out how she has to hide that from her dad. You think about, with your kids, are there things that they like to do, that they wanted to do that maybe they couldn’t do at a certain stage? I see it with my niece. She is really artsy. She’s loved to cook ever since I let her destroy my kitchen at two, three years old. Already, we’re like, Harvard, Princeton, Yale. She’s like, maybe cooking school in Paris. My sister and I are like, shoot me now. I see a version of that now. It’s like, no, we have an idea of where you need to go. She’s a very artsy kid who’s like, no, I think I’m just going to do this. June is exploring all of those things.

Zibby: Tell me more about your childhood as the oldest of six kids and where you grew up and how that makes you see the world now. That’s a lot of responsibility from a young age. It’s like you almost don’t even get to have your own childhood, sort of.

Tina: But I did. Although, I agree. Chris Rock has this joke where he says, in a big family, the oldest two just raise all the other kids. My parents often joke that there were Mom, Dad, and Tina, and then the kids. That’s so not true. I have amazing parents. I’m from Lancaster, Pennsylvania. If you know anything about Lancaster — my parents actually live there now. They moved back about seven years ago. It’s just a great place to be from. It is also really trippy for me to go home. I may go see them today. Horse and buggies parked at Target is trippy. I agree with that, but it’s where I’m from. My early career was as a trend spotter. I’m a trend spotter from Lancaster, Pennsylvania. We grew up really, really happy. My dad spent his career both as a pastor and at Lockheed Martin. We moved to New Jersey when I was pretty young. I feel like I was five or six. Although, four out of six of us were born in Lancaster, then settled in South Jersey and grew up in suburban New Jersey. It was really great. My mom is one of fourteen. My mom has eight older brothers and five sisters. My dad’s an only child. We were like, okay Dad, you really wanted a big family. Literally, Thanksgiving is eighty people. I thought everybody had big Thanksgivings like that. Grew up with a lot of cousins and just really, I would say, focused on family. My parents, they loved having their big family. We were talking about, what would COVID have been like if we were kids and at home? How would my parents have adjusted? I think for my dad not having any siblings, there was just such a dedication to our family.

I also relate to the way June sees her parents with the great expectations. My mom has a saying. She said, “I never asked my kids, are you going to college? I said, where are you going to college?” She’s like, “That’s why all six have graduated from college.” I would definitely say we were raised with that culture of great expectations. My parents were really different. If I brought home, let’s say, a ninety-five percent, my dad would say, “That’s great, but if the best you could do is a seventy, I love you anyway.” My mom would say, “Was that the best you could do? Why didn’t you get a hundred?” I had these two competing schools of thought, which were really great for all of us. I think we benefited from my mom’s push and drive. When I look at my own push and drive towards, this has to be just right, that definitely comes from my mom. Then there’s also that soft-pillow landing of, if this book doesn’t hit, if this thing doesn’t go, it’s okay. Mom and Dad still love you. My mom would always joke, “Daddy loves you anyway.” I had that balance, for sure. Then the shenanigans of five younger siblings, we were an entertaining crew, for sure.

Zibby: Wow. Then how did you get into trend spotting, your whole Buzz framework? How did that whole thing come about? Explain it a little more.

Tina: I knew early on that I wanted to be a fashion writer. That was my dream job. I was fifteen. I answered an ad in Seventeen magazine for — this newspaper for girls called The New Girl Times was hiring. I asked my mom — I had a Brother word processor. I said, “If I type up a sample, can you fax this from work?” She did. I got a call from the editor, Miriam Hips. She said, “I want to hire you as a product review editor.” I’m like, awesome. I didn’t know what that meant. Obviously, I figured out, I have to find products to review. When I started doing that and I would send the clips of the reviewed products back to companies, they always said the same thing. “If I send you more stuff, will you keep telling me what you think?” At fifteen, I was like, this is a dream gig. I’m a total 1990s teenager who wants everything. My parents are not buying me all the things. We were very much, Christmas, birthday, you get the things that you want. I thought I’d just devise the best way to get what I wanted. I didn’t know I could make money until my freshman year of college when someone called me. I had done a free survey for them. She said, “I’m going to tell you something really important. You have a business. It’s called market research.” By this time, my friends were helping me. She said, “What you and your friends did is ten times better than research I paid $25,000 for. You have this business. That’s all I’m going to say. Go figure it out.”

As luck would have it, I was taking Intro to Business with the head of the department at Hood College where I’d done my undergrad. I went to see her during office hours and said, “I’ve been doing this thing.” She kind of stared at me for a long time, literally. To Dr. Joseph’s credit, she was like, “I want you to take an independent study with me next semester. We’re going to figure out how to make this a business.” We did. She was so tough and just would destroy my business plans. Around the time we were doing this, this was 1998, it was the first dotcom bubble. Everybody was trying to say to me, just go build this dotcom company. She said, “No, you need to build a really strong business. I want you to have a bricks and mortar. Don’t just focus online.” To her credit, that model that we built all those years ago is really what sustained my agency for almost twenty-five years. It was hard. It really hard work. I was really lucky to get to do that as an undergrad, to have amazing professors to go talk to about statistics. Then when I was twenty, so this would be my junior year of college, I was studying away in Chicago. That was around the time that CosmoGirl had launched. I was in, I want to say, one of the first three issues. I’m sure you know genius Michelle Lee who went on to be editor-in-chief of Allure — now she’s at Netflix — and Shoket who was the editor-in-chief of Seventeen. This was their first place. They wrote about me. They wrote two sentences that changed my life just about a cool job alert. I have fifteen thousand applications from teenagers all over the world who wanted to be buzz spotters. They were calling CosmoGirl. They were getting mad at me. “You’ve got to get back to these people. Moms are calling us.” I thought, what do I do with all of these people? I decided to do teen research and to do different kinds of research.

One of my first studies was about music pirating when the industry was saying — I can’t believe there was a time when the industry was saying, this isn’t going to be a problem. I got to present at the biggest conference in music. I’m this college student who’s like, “I did a survey. Of the five hundred people I talked to, ninety-nine percent of them have illegally downloaded music in the last thirty days, and they don’t intend to stop.” Everybody ignored me but this woman who had been running research for Sony BGM. While I was about to graduate from college, I ended up getting a pretty big contract to do research for the likes of all the artists that are huge legends. I was working with their label, so whether it was Britney Spears or Backstreet Boys, NSYNC, Destiny’s Child, Beyoncé, John Legend, John Mayer, and doing a lot of research. It was a great time, a really awesome time in my career. I still remember my senior year, talking to my advisor and saying, “I’m just seen as this girl who’s doing this fun thing. I don’t know if I can make a career with this. Maybe I’ll go to law school.” We decided I would give it a year and see what happened. Obviously, twenty-plus years later, it turned out okay. I never really, at that point, thought, I’m doing this, and this is a career. I’m really creating a new genre of influence. I never thought about that. I was just a kid from suburban New Jersey who wanted to write for a magazine.

Zibby: I love that story. That is so cool. I actually also, when I was fourteen, wrote an article. My mother was like, “You have to send this to Seventeen magazine.” I didn’t write an article. I wrote from my heart about how upset I was that I had gained weight. It was like a diary entry. I printed it in the next room or something. She found it and was like, “You have to send this in.” I was like, “Why did you read my stuff?” Anyway, I sent it in. They bought it, but they paid me. They didn’t pay you for your work? I got $150. I thought that was amazing. I framed my check. I mean, I cashed it. I guess I made a copy or something because I still have it. It changed my life. I was like, this is amazing. I love magazines. I was obsessed with girl magazines. I think we were in college at the same time. I love market research. I went on and did some of that with ad agencies and brand planning. I just love your story, so cool, so awesome.

Tina: Thank you.

Zibby: After you did all your research, when did you decide you wanted to start writing middle grade?

Tina: That’s funny. I never decided that. I was doing marketing for a publisher who had just bought a book from Alloy. Do you remember Alloy?

Zibby: I remember Alloy, totally.

Tina: They were our competitor. There were three of us in this group: Alloy; Mr. Youth, who became MRY; and Buzz Marketing Group, my company. We’d been hired to do the marketing. I was working with editors every day. They said, “Alloy‘s doing this thing. There are marketers who have figured out this thing. You should do this thing.” I’m like, “I don’t have time to do that. No time.” I was actually doing research for a huge CPG company, consumer packaged goods, around this consumer that was emerging called tween. During a focus group, a mom came up to me and she said, “You seem to know about these things. What should I do? My daughter is ten, and she’s reading Gossip Girl. I’m happy that she’s reading. I don’t think it’s appropriate. What should I do?” It was that moment that I thought, okay, now as a marketer, what can I do about this? I loved Gossip Girl, but I was a twenty-something-year-old woman. I couldn’t imagine looking at that at ten, eleven years old and thinking that’s how I should act in school. We know it’s dramatization, but at that middle-grade stage, we’re emulating what we see. We’re aspiring to those things. I started working on Mackenzie Blue. Sent it to a friend who was editor-in-chief of Seventeen at the time. My story keeps going back to Seventeen. All my friends were like, “This is really good. You actually should take that publisher up on their offer and think about a series.” What I did instead was, I said to the editor I’d been working with, “Who are the top four agents that you buy from?” Got a list and ended up working with Kate Lee who was just an incredible agent. She was just awesome. We had an offer on the table when we went. Got turned down from my publisher, from Harper. I’d designed a proposal that looked like a seventh-grade girl’s composition book literally down to that marble.

Zibby: I love it.

Tina: It was incredible. The publisher saw it and picked it up and was thumbing through it. She’s like, “What is this?” I’m like, “It’s this book, Mackenzie Blue. It’s got too much going on. We turned it down.” She said, “I like it. Get her in here and have her explain it.” I went in with Kate. We met with sixteen people. It was almost like defending a thesis. “Why do you think tween girls do all of these things?” It’s like, “Well, I just know. I do the research, so I know that this is what they’re doing.” That day, we had an offer and five books. It was incredible. Harper was an incredible home for Mackenzie. It sold really well. It was just a joy. Then I went back to marketing. It wasn’t until Audible ended up buying out the series from me years later — it’s a whole other conversation around my incredible attorney and the deals he did for me in my twenties that allow me to retain all my IP and allow me to make great deals around that IP and how I see it come to life. I was fortunate to be able to sell my own audio rights and decide that deal with Audible. I had started talking with Target just about, maybe we could do something together. We thought, let’s relaunch Mackenzie Blue, and then realized that a lot had changed. I said, “I was writing a TV pilot called The Zee Files. Maybe we make this the series.” That’s how Zee came back to life. Then they also helped me get to Penguin Random House and helped me sell Honest June, which has been a dream. During the pandemic, I was just writing and writing a bunch of new concepts. It’s just been awesome.

Zibby: Is Honest June a series too?

Tina: Honest June is a series, yes. Three books thus far. Then there’s a new series that we have yet to announce that’s coming to Target next summer called The Stitch Clique. The tagline there is “a tightknit group of friends.” It’s about five girls who are incredibly different who meet in a fashion class and become really great friends. They are from five really different family structures, life paths. They end up becoming the best of friends. Just starting to work on that one. Spent a bit of the summer starting to frame that up. Couldn’t be more excited to have these partnerships with Target and get to bring to these books to life.

Zibby: Why partner only with Target? Why aren’t you doing a mass distribution for the books?

Tina: The first thing is, to be clear, Target really took the risk on me. We wanted to go more traditional. This is a theme throughout my career. I will be honest. It’s something that deeply annoys me — my best friends are like, “But you do this. It’s fine.” — when it’s like, I just want to do things the way they’ve been done. Then I get to an obstacle and it’s like, well, you can’t do that. You’ve got to create a new way. I would say we wanted to do things in a more traditional way, and that option wasn’t there. Then COVID presented a really unique opportunity to launch a book in a unique way. We had to move fast. I turned in the first Zee Files book — I want to say I got the green light in April of 2020. The book was turned in at the end of June. The team at West Margin, they just moved heaven and earth to get that book in stores by December 1st. For any of you in the business, to, within six months, have a book mastered, in stores, in shelves, and ready for holiday, it’s an incredible feat. They were just an awesome partner. I just actually got my fourth book. This book is launching in two months. It’s called A Very Malibu Vaycay. They just sent me my copy. The way we get to partner, it’s incredibly unique. I’m really, really, really fortunate.

To Target’s credit — there was a great article about what they’re doing in this month’s Fast Company. As a person who gets to partner with them, I really echo what a lot of their other entrepreneurs and partners have said about the ingenuity there, the thinking, how they partner with entrepreneurs, how they allow us to protect our intellectual property and bring the best of what we do to the table and really get the best of what they do. Getting a book to market is hard. What we had to do for Honest June to even get her in stores now, that was hard. Obviously, Honest June, we would’ve liked June. It just wasn’t possible in that system. Target, they were clear, “We want to do this with you.” I think it’s the first time they’ve worked with a middle-grade author to do something exclusive. The books do go wide after that. The exclusivity also allows me advertising partnerships that didn’t exist. Mackenzie was never carried in Target. It’s a huge feat now that I’ve got the series that — we get multiple circular inclusions every year. We’ve come up with a really unique way. By next spring, they will be wherever books are sold. It’s just been a really awesome partnership. I think that it’s the first of many to come. I think that what you’re doing creating imprints, we’re seeing different voices come into publishing and create new hybrids that need to exist. We see that with what Target is doing in retail. Whether it’s pioneering partnering with designers to enhance their brands, I think what we’re realizing is it’s not an either/or strategy. It’s a both/and.

Having this bit of exclusivity means that June is going to get more attention than maybe she would’ve gotten if she had just gone completely mainstream. We’ve got time to set up and build the narrative, have presence this weekend in a circular that reaches forty million households. Impressive for me. It’s amazing. It’s an amazing opportunity. For that opportunity, they like exclusivity. I’m willing to give that knowing I’m getting that kind of access and also, as an author, really getting to build a brand there. Now as of today, I have two different series there with them and also launching product for holiday for The Zee Files. We came up with something called a Bliss Box. Again, back to the theme of young people dealing with anxiety, I created this really cool box for girls. It’s limited edition, only in stores for holiday. It’s been fun to work with a retailer on how we really create a unique experience for guests. I love that. When you go everywhere, you don’t always get the opportunity to say, I’d like this to show up this way. The Zee Files has a custom corrugate where it’s designed just for Target shelves that point, the guests chew the books. A lot of those marketing pieces we were able to do probably wouldn’t have existed if we didn’t have this unique partnership.

Zibby: I have to put you in touch with this woman, Jaunique Sealey. I don’t know if you know her. Her pen name is Jayne Allen. Actually, her book came out today too. It’s called Black Girls Must Die Exhausted. She’s actually part of my executive team at Zibby Books. Her book is the Target Diverse Book Club pick for October. You two should meet and talk. You should help our business.

Tina: I would love to. Also, she’s got the best title ever. I saw that in one of your posts. I’m like, my god, the title’s incredible.

Zibby: Her book is great. I literally met her because she came on my podcast for her book. I was like, “We have to do this together. You’re amazing.” She was in the music industry. You have to talk to her. Oh, my gosh, we’re running out of time. I have eight thousand questions to ask you. We’ll have to continue this some other way. One question I have, with all of your research — then I want to hear your advice to aspiring authors. I’ve noticed, and I’m sure you’ve noticed, that kids don’t like to read the way they used to. Everybody is on devices. It is so hard. I have twin fourteen-year-olds. I also have an eight-year-old and a six-year-old. Nobody really loves to read. They’ll buy the books. They’ll get them from the library. Then they get distracted. What are we going to do? I have this underlying panic that all this research and publishing and shaking things up — meanwhile, everyone who’s young doesn’t like to read. It’s not a thing with them the way it was. I spent hours reading, but I had no choice. What was it going to do? Watch The Golden Girls? What do you think?

Tina: First, I will say, in my days as a researcher, how often did we hear things like, print is dead, this is dead? We’d go with that. Then when we’d dig deeper, what we realized was, no, bad print is, and maybe it should be. Look at the success of something like Magnolia Journal. We know that that’s not the case. We thought for years TV was dead. Can you imagine saying that now? We’d laugh. There are more A-listers making incredible TV — we saw something called streaming come in and shake that up. I’ll tell you for me personally, still to this day, ninety percent of all of my sales are the actual physical book. I know that there is something for the girl of actually owning this. I put a lot of attention, when I can, when I’m given permission to, into how my books look. I want them to be collectable. I want girls to love it. Something that was so incredible that happened with Mackenzie was librarians started reaching out to me and told me, “Your books are great for at-risk readers.” I don’t write to write award-winning books. I write to get kids to read. I write to get kids who are at risk for reading to read. As a marketer, I know how to dangle exactly what you need to get you into a book. I just recently had a friend who — I sent her the book. She’s like, “You’re not going to believe this. My daughter and her best friend, they read the book in a day.” I said, “I do believe it.” There’s a way that I write that just wants to get kids to engage and hopefully get them onto the next book and onto the next series. I think that’s us using our skills. That’s why what you’re doing is so exciting. When you take those of us who were in that business, we understood research and advertising, and we want people to read, I think that’s a really powerful combination. I’m really always laser-focused on what is going to get that reader attached to this book, get her into this book, or him, into this book, engage, and get them into the next one. That’s why series is important, how I craft my characters.

The Zee Files is about a girl who lives — I heard the first pushback was like, oh, they’re rich kids who go to a private school, a boarding school. No, it’s about a life stage where kids are trying to find a way to detach from parents, and the thing that’s so interesting is boarding school. We can create this world for Zee, who is a biracial girl going through boarding school, and also create these experiences for this very diverse cast. I just finished the fifth book where now there’s a princess who’s arriving. Yes, I get that I’m sprinkling in all the things. To me, those are the things that, at this critical age, are getting girls to read. Just like you, I was reading Teen magazine and YM. My mom subscribed me to those magazines. That’s what started me on the path of being a voracious reader. I would read a book every day of the summer. I was reading Sweet Valley Twins and Sweet Valley High. I love that my parents let me read whatever I wanted to read. Obviously, as I grew up, I started to read more and more. Even now, I’m reading a book a week still. I just really love reading. Sometimes it’s incredible. Other times, it’s just like, whatever, something that keeps me interested. I think that we have to really think about where kids are at. For those of us who have started our careers as marketers, I always start with my reader. I always start with, where is my reader at in his or her life right now? What can I say to them? How do I entertain them? That’s what I really put as my intention, is to entertain, obviously with an overarching intention of representation. I really want girls who look like me to see themselves on covers of books. I think that that’s great for all girls. I think all girls want to see that. They want that diversity of choice. They want to read about diverse groups. That’s really what guides me as a writer.

Zibby: Wow, I love it. Are you in New York, by the way? Is that where you are?

Tina: I live in South Jersey. I used to work in New York two or three days a week pre-pandemic. I miss my New York life a lot.

Zibby: At some point, we have to hang or something.

Tina: Oh, we will.

Zibby: What is your advice for aspiring authors?

Tina: I will say, I don’t have a traditional path. I think that that’s okay. I think that if you have a story, really focus on your audience. Whenever I’ve had the pleasure of working, engaging with my publishing companies, what’s been most critical is my understanding of who I’m talking to. You don’t want to put that work on your publisher and figure out, now who is the audience? Go in and be as clear as you can about who you’re writing for. Then craft your own process. For me, it was really hard during the pandemic not to travel because I get so much inspiration for writing from traveling. Being in airports is really inspirational for me, just to see families interacting, to see people when they aren’t really thinking about being observed. You get to observe them. Hone a practice of what inspires you. Then just really focus on the originality of, what’s your voice?

I understand what my voice is. I’m a middle-grade writer. I’m probably never, outside of maybe a few business books, going to write anything that’s not middle grade because I get her. It would take too much energy for me to get YA. YA is its own beast. I can’t even begin to try to understand YA or a young reader. That seven to twelve, seven to fourteen-year-old primarily girl reader is who I write for. Same thing in marketing. The idea that it’s for everybody, that doesn’t work. It never worked in marketing. You really have to say, these are my core people, and then expand from there. Obviously, we’ve seen that happen multiple times where you build a product or brand for a core consumer, and then from there, the brand grows. Be really focused. Sometimes we think it’s not okay to really focus on a smaller demographic, that we have to go wide, but it’s okay just to say, I’m going to focus — for me, my next series is really focused on a DIY girl with a real focus on diversity and telling this diverse story. If you’re not into fashion, I don’t know, maybe Stitch Clique isn’t the first book you’re going to pick up. I’m okay with that because I know if I get my core group, then they’re going to talk about it. Then they’re going to help to expand.

Zibby: I love it. I’m ordering every single book of you for all of my kids. I cannot wait. This is amazing. Thank you so much. Thanks for coming on “Moms Don’t Have Time to Read Books.” Congratulations on Honest June and all of the stuff you’re doing. I just love your mindset and how your brain works. It’s so cool.

Tina: Thank you.

Zibby: You’re welcome. Best of luck. Thank you so much.

Tina: Thanks, Zibby. Take care.

Zibby: Take care. Buh-bye.

Tina: Bye.

HONEST JUNE by Tina Wells

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