Zibby chats with bestselling author Tiffany Jenkins about her raw and unflinchingly honest new memoir, A CLEAN MESS: A Memoir of Sobriety After a Lifetime of Being Numb. Tiffany delves into the challenges of early sobriety, reentering society after incarceration, navigating a volatile marriage, and confronting postpartum depression. She thanks the woman who first hired her after she was released from jail, emphasizing how vital second chances are to those in recovery—her dad’s unwavering support saved her life! Finally, they touch on Tiffany’s rapid rise to internet fame and discuss her plans to pivot toward helping others in recovery.

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome, Tiffany. Thank you so much for coming on Totally Booked with Zibby to talk about A Clean Mess, A Memoir Of Sobriety After A Lifetime Of Being Numb. Congrats. 

Tiffany: Thank you so much.

I'm excited to be here. 

Zibby: Tiffany, I am obsessed with your book. I read it in two sittings, one of which was deep into the night. I could not put it down. 

Tiffany: Oh, 

Zibby: I couldn't put it down. I just couldn't. And then as I was reading it, I was like what is she doing that's so amazing? Why can I not put this book down? I read books all the time, but I just couldn't, I couldn't put it down.

Tiffany: Oh my goodness. I can't explain what a great compliment that is for me because I have the attention span of a gnat, which keeps me from sitting down to read books as much as I'd like. So hearing that feedback means a lot to me. I guess that's why I write it that way. Maybe I write it how I would wanna read it.

Zibby: Totally. So why don't you share with listeners a little bit about your own experience and what part of your life this book talks about? 

Tiffany: Sure. So I am in recovery from addiction this November. I'll have 13 years clean sober. Prior to that, I was in a relationship with a sheriff's deputy. At the time I was arrested for some crimes related to my addiction.

Happy to answer any questions about that, but this book picks up from the time when I left the rehab and entered the worlds. Without drugs and alcohol in my system for the first time, trying to reintegrate with society as a semi-normal person after a life of being numb. 

Zibby: Oh my gosh. Well, your book, obviously the vast majority of people have not also been in prison and have to get back on their feet, but everyone has had a moment like what you described in the book of leaving something.

Great.

And what seemed like great behind and having everything else suddenly seem dull. Do you know what I mean? Like after, when you're like, wait, this is life. This is life without drugs, and then this is motherhood, and what am I supposed to do with this? Is this life. 

Tiffany: Right? Is this, is this what I worked so hard to fight for?

There was those moments of what is the point? 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Tiffany: If I'm gonna be miserable, I'd rather be miserable and high. You know, having those moments, but finding the strength and utilizing the tools that I had been given, I think really helped get me through that time. But yeah, this was just, it was a inside look into my life after I got clean.

Zibby: So you talk about the experience of being in the halfway house and Mary, um, who's like your den mother of sorts at, um, the house manager, your roommates, what it's like, you know, day in and day out. Secret dating while you're, so, it's almost like you're reform school or something, and yet you had to look at, keep breaking out and roommates in college.

I mean, if, if you change some of the backdrop, this could be in any new residential situation and yet it's layered on with your sudden, you know, the transition and your struggles and all of that. Like what was it like to go back and write about this, this time in your life? Like what do you think about it now?

Tiffany: Well, I, it was really, I've been writing this book for a few years. And I wasn't sure how to end it. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Tiffany: And then life just made that decision for me, which ended up being. I feel like it's hard to talk about it without explaining the book, but basically during the course of my sobriety, I experienced death.

I experienced life and I experienced divorce, and so going back and writing about those times in the early halfway house was fun because I got to go through old texts and old pictures and revisit those moments. Writing about the parts of my marriage. It was so fresh and so new that I wasn't sure initially how to write about it.

I knew I didn't want it to be a salacious tell all, but I knew that unfortunately, this was part of the story that I had to tell to keep it as real and authentic to what I was going through at the time. So I had a whole rollercoaster of emotions during this. 

Zibby: Oh my gosh, you're depiction of the fights that you and Colin had are so real.

Like this is one of the best examinations up close of marriage because you would have these little fights and I would, as a reader, I was like, oh my God, this is the end. And then you'd have the next scene and he would apologize. And you would apologize. And I'm like, oh my gosh. Phew. This is okay. Like look how they were able to come back and it was actually quite inspiring. It's almost like a mini class in communication, even though it may ultimately not have like yielded the results you wanted, like. 

Tiffany: Right. 

Zibby: Communication itself. Talk about, talk about that and even how you turned all that into narrative. 

Tiffany: So when I first. Went to rehab, I had to learn how to humble myself.

I had to learn for the first time, like, wait a minute, Tiffany, you're not right about everything. Like, there are some things you need help with. And so part of the exercise that I went through in rehab was examining my own part in each situation. Like, yes, I feel like this person did me wrong, but what did I do in that situation to contribute to it?

And that has allowed me to really examine my part. In these individual disagreements or whatever it may be. And same with him because he went through recovery also. And so it's really nice when the fights or arguments do come to a nice ending, if you will. And but I think a lot of it had to do with the therapy and the counselors that helped guide us through those times and helped us respond instead of react in those situations.

Zibby: And how does he feel about the book? 

Tiffany: Woo. Um, so he, he's very, in general, like not much phase is the guy. He could be standing in the middle of a lightning storm eaten chips, unbothered, like, he's just not bothered. So if, if he really does have fear or anything, he won't tell me about it. It's very deep down.

I've offered for him to read it before I've. Warned him a little bit of what to expect, but I wanted to write it in a way that didn't necessarily paint him as a bad guy, despite some really bad choices. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Tiffany: Because I don't want my kids to be in the library when they're older, reading about their dad and be like, what a jerk.

You know? So I tried to write it in a way that wouldn't traumatize them too much also. 

Zibby: So when you, and you don't have to answer this, but when you got into his Apple Watch and you were like, these are the worst texts I've ever seen, but then you didn't put in the book what they were. 

Tiffany: Mm-hmm. 

Zibby: Why did you not?

And tell me more about that. 

Tiffany: For me, it was like, don't get me wrong. If I, I'm sure if I gave out some details and stuff, people would be like, oh, this is so juicy. This is so good. You know, because people thrive on drama that isn't theirs. A lot of people do, not everybody. But, uh, you know, it goes back to my kids are gonna read this.

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Tiffany: And I wanted to leave it. Ambiguous, and I don't know if that's ambiguous. 

Zibby: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Tiffany: Oh, okay. Um, ambiguous enough to where you can put the pieces together yourself while writing it or while reading it, I mean, but you don't have the specific details. I don't think they were necessary to the story.

I, I think people can use their imagination and, you know, the whole point of it wasn't specifically what happened to me. It was how I responded in those situations. And how I didn't get high over it. 

Zibby: Yeah. Which was ama like your strength throughout all of this is amazing. I should just say, oh, truly, truly amazing.

Tiffany: Thank you. I feel like I can't take any credit for it. It was truly my friend's. 

Zibby: No, not true. 

Tiffany: You're like not even gonna let you finish that act. I really do. I feel, listen, I. If it was up to me, I would have robbed a bank run through the town naked. Like I was completely out of control of my emotions during this time.

And it was my friends who were literally like, okay, Tiffany, you need to take a shower. You need to eat food. We're gonna help you clean up. I, I felt like I was a newborn again, I, for everything I thought I knew about life was flipped upside down and I didn't know how to act. 

Zibby: Well again, that's one of these moments that I know so many people will relate to, even if the circumstances are different and thank you so much, whether it's some sort of loss or betrayal or whatever.

It's the way you wrote it, you know, there's that whole thing, like the more specific you get, the more universal it is. I feel like that's what this story really showcases. 

Tiffany: That's amazing. 

Zibby: You're writing also about postpartum depression was so good and just how you were like, I don't know if I wanna be a mom anymore.

Talk about that time of your life. It was so dark. 

Tiffany: It really was to the point where looking at photos from that time in my life. Brings me back to that and gives me a really dark feeling because all of the things that you're supposed to experience after having a child, you know, joy, bliss, excitement, hope.

I didn't feel any of the positive emotions. I felt only negative and it was hard because she was born, my daughter was born with colic and a dairy allergy and acid reflux. So she was screaming from sun up to sundown, and I don't care how good of a parent you are, it, it's hard to bond with a baby that is constantly in distress and, and so it got really dark.

I didn't wanna talk to my husband about how I was feeling because I didn't want him to regret. Knocking me up in the halfway house and I did. My friends all looked happy with their children, so I felt like I couldn't tell them because I didn't want them to call and have my kids taken away. That was a huge fear of mine, but it was to the point where I didn't wanna be a mother.

I resented my children for existing. I wanted to leave them in their cribs and run outta the house. And I know it sounds shocking and terrible, but it was just my truth, and it was important for me to tell that part in the book because I'm sure that there are mothers out there who are like, why aren't I happier about this?

It isn't just, oh, I'm tired and, you know, leaking from everywhere. This is not fun. It, it's a dark. Dark thing. And there's different versions of it too. There's postpartum anxiety, postpartum psychosis. And so it's something that I think, you know, more people should talk about so that if, if somebody does feel those emotions, they're not like, wait, I'm a monster.

They're like, wait, I've seen this before. There's help available. 

Zibby: And even when you were on the staircase that one time where you're like, I could just leave my kids. I'm just gonna leave 'em, I'm just gonna go outside and like sit on the staircase for like a minute with the kids screaming. And sitting there and then being like, oh no, of course I'm going back inside.

Tiffany: Right. 

Zibby: Just that moment where you just have to get out and 

Tiffany: Yep. 

Zibby: Recalibrate yourself. 

Tiffany: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yeah. Parenting is not for the paint of heart, but it's, uh, the, obviously, you know, the coolest thing I've ever done. I mean, yeah, it's the coolest. I think I have to say that as a parent, it's definitely, I've done a lot of cool stuff since I quit drugs, but you know, having my kids really was a huge part of why I think I was so successful in my sobriety because it was no longer just about me.

I. Which is why the story in which I got pregnant in the halfway house is so crazy and on paper looks nuts. But it was, it was a, it was one of the best things that ever happened. 

Zibby: By the way, what happened to the woman who hired you, who was also three months pregnant? Are you still in touch with her? 

Tiffany: Yeah, so I.

Yes, I worked there for, through both of my pregnancies and she's wonderful. We, we don't talk anymore since I stopped working there after my daughter was born, but she was a huge part of me getting back on my feet. I was able to work and save money and get an apartment and get a car, and you know, them giving me that chance.

Even though on paper there was an astronomical amount of felonies, I really am just so grateful for the people who did look at me and say, okay, this person isn't a lost cause they have a past, but we'll give them a chance. Because that chance really allowed me to blossom. 

Zibby: You also point out how structurally the system of jail and probation and everything is just not set up for success.

And you talked about how you saw so many repeat people coming at, like being released and coming back in and how you got out and you're like, well, if you release people from jail and you have no money and you can't get a job. 'cause you have to tell everybody you're a felon. Like, what are we supposed to do?

How is this? 

Tiffany: Mm-hmm. 

Zibby: You know, how do you feel about all that? 

Tiffany: Yeah, it definitely isn't easy to Reacclimate to the world, and understandably, right? Like if you have a company that is your livelihood and you have people applying all the time, and then someone comes and is like, Hey, I know it says I have 20 felonies from last year and I am a thief, but hear me out. I, I am not that way anymore. You know, it's understandable that people would be like me. We're not gonna take the chance. This is my business. This is my livelihood. I wanted to write about that so that people could see like, you know, I understand the hesitation, but I also feel like when you are coming out of jail, especially from a drug addiction, chances are you've spent every penny on drugs prior to getting arrested.

And when you get out, you have lost the trust of your loved ones. You've lost respect from everybody. Nobody wants to help you because you are a loose cannon. And I think that, you know, these programs try their best to help people, but it, it's a catch 22. I'm processing this as I'm saying it out loud because while I do feel like we should, you know, you should give felon and people in recovery who want a chance.

A chance, I also completely understand it. Ha. It's something that has to be proven from that person that they're capable. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Tiffany: Um, and it's, that only comes with time. And so. There was a lot of people who helped me when I came out of rehab and I will forever be grateful. There was people who furnished my apartment.

There was people who picked me up and drove me to meetings. They gave me opportunities to make money, and I, you know. I will be eternally grateful to those people who gave me a chance. 

Zibby: And your dad, you wrote so beautifully about your dad and how he wrote you a postcard every day in jail and he was just there.

And when he went to the parking lot and met you. 

Tiffany: Oh my goodness. 

Zibby: When you were doing that, oh my goodness. Swap in the parking. And he is like, I just wanna make sure that you're okay. 

Tiffany: Mm-hmm. 

Zibby: Oh my gosh. That whole through line. What a sweetheart. 

Tiffany: Aw, thank you. He, I said thank you like I made him. He's okay.

The best. He is the reason that I am clean and sober today, because if it wasn't for him coming to visit me in jail and telling me that this is from the first book, but which by the way, you don't have to have read it. To understand the second book, they're independent, but you know it. There are some throwbacks in the second book to the first book, but he came and visited me in jail and told me that he loved me no matter what.

And he had faith in me and you know, that he believed I could do it. And at that time I was so low and I didn't have any hopes. So having him give me a little bit, somebody who knew me before my addiction saying, I know you're in there, I can help you. I had saved my life. Ugh, a little bit of love. During my darkest time truly saved my life.

Zibby: Well, your whole arc, and I won't, you know, go into everything, but oh my gosh, it was amazing with your dad. 

Tiffany: Thank you so much. He's amazing. Uh, I love him. I owe so much to him. And he's actually right over here. I keep him in my office. I don't know, maybe I shouldn't say that. Maybe that's a spoiler. But, but yeah, he's wonderful.

And that was a little weird thing to say out loud about him being in here. I should have thought that they, through people are like, what? She keeps him in the oven. 

Zibby: I mean, I've got my grandmother right over there, so,..

Tiffany: Ah, that makes me feel better. Okay. 

Zibby: Literally, I'm like, there she is next to her picture.

So in the book you talk about how you also. Developed this internet personality, this blog. Yeah. You know, all the things that happened alongside it. So can you explain, I know you said the doctor said, why don't you start a blog, and then you started posting and describe what's happened and how you've created this whole thing on the side, if you will.

Tiffany: I have no clue what happened. Honestly. I, I started writing about motherhood. And then when I crossed over into, I was like, you know what? I'm gonna talk about my time in jail and just, I'm gonna be honest about it. And I was releasing a chapter a week on my blog at the time, and people started swarming.

They were in shock, they were captivated, and I wasn't expecting it. And before I knew it, in a few months, I had a million followers. And then I started making videos in addition to the addiction stuff. Comedy videos and people, what happened was people would see the videos and be like, oh, she's silly and she's funny.

I'm gonna go follow her. And then they'd get there and be like, wait a minute, she's an addict. How is this possible? She looks so happy and, and I think that's where everybody began to come over to my page, but thanks. You know, escalated very quickly, overnight, and I wasn't expecting any of it. I wasn't mentally prepared for any of it.

And there are times which I didn't wanna talk too much about that part of my life in the book because I feel like most people are like, okay, we can't, this is, we can't relate to that at all, and it doesn't apply to us. So I, I briefly wanted to mention it because truthfully, it is a huge part of who I am.

I have social anxiety, I have generalized anxieties, I have all these. Things that like, are the opposite of what I've done. I like to be alone. I like to be quiet. I, I don't like talking to people. I don't like being up on stage. But my job as a comedian and a speaker and an author who travels around talking about stage, might I 

Zibby: suggest a different line of work?

I don't know. Yes, I know. Well, I, I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. 

Tiffany: I, I, I'm, I don't know what the future has in store and that's what's so crazy to me, is even though I have no clue. What the future has in store. As long as I stay away from drugs and alcohol, it'll be amazing. And I know that for sure. 

Zibby: So back to the writing.

So. What did you, how did you do this in such a way that, like I was trying to analyze, the way you ended chapters was, was always cliff hangry. The chapters were relatively short. You gave us like a mix of dialogue and your internal thoughts at the time. You told it like a story. You had two of you, you know, two timelines going, like, how did you, how did you do this whole thing and did it all just come really naturally because the product.

In the reading was like quite seamless. 

Tiffany: That's incredible to hear. I, I'm not even sure how to respond, honestly. I am surprised to hear it's just, I don't know. It's hard. To hear this kind of feedback because I ha, everything in me is like, wow. I mean, it's not that great. Like I didn't, seamless is a big word.

Zibby: I'm not saying, I'm not saying this is gonna, this is like the, the literary achievement of like the 21st century or whatever. But it 

Tiffany: Why not? I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. No, I know. 

Zibby: It's literally like the most immersive can't put down book and there, and that is. Really hard to do and really valuable.

Tiffany: Thank you. I am just dramatic in general, and so I think that when I ended the chapters, I wanted people to keep reading and come back and see what comes next because it is a whole story and I, I didn't want it to be where you're reading and it doesn't suck you in enough. To where you put it down and then don't pick it up for a few weeks.

I needed people to be addicted to it and to to finish it because it is a whole story, and I think that's how I wrote it. I wrote it in a timeline of flashbacks because I don't know, that's how I did my first book. That's just how I do things. I like things to be a surprise. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Tiffany: I like to keep people guessing and wondering, and it's how I do it, and it's just what I enjoy.

I don't know. It's, it blows my mind because again, you know, I didn't graduate high school I, and not that you have to graduate high school to be good at things, but for me, the fact that I put words together that formed paragraphs that people are enjoying is a surprising, wonderful gift for me. 

Zibby: Wow. Well, you deserve it.

It's, it's really awesome. 

Tiffany: Thank you. 

Zibby: What is coming next for you? You're hosting two different podcasts, right? You tell me and you have this book coming out and you, are you going on tour again? Like, tell me your whole thing and what, what the future. The, at least the short-term future is holding for you. 

Tiffany: The short-term future.

Yes, I've got my two podcasts right now. This book launch is one of the biggest things going on, um, in my life. Other than that, I don't know what else I'm doing. I am following my heart. Pivoting. So where comedy sketches and skits online used to be my thing. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Tiffany: I'm feeling more pulled towards helping addicts in recovery at this point in time.

Zibby: Yep. 

Tiffany: Whatever that looks like. So I'm thinking about going back to school, I'm thinking about getting certified. I'm thinking about all these different things, and one day I will put it into action. Probably maybe. 

Zibby: Have you read, uh, Lara Love Harden's book, the Many Lives of Mama Love. 

Tiffany: I haven't. 

Zibby: Oh my gosh.

Okay. 

Tiffany: It's a lot of Ls. 

Zibby: It is a lot of Ls. She's amazing. It was about her time in prison and she was like this, you know, beautiful mom, suburban mom, and who would've known and blah, blah, blah. I have to, you two have to do an event together. 

Tiffany: Okay. 

Zibby: I have to put you in touch. You're welcome to do it at my bookstore, but you just have to do it anywhere.

Tiffany: I would love it. That's amazing. And I, I would love to check out her stuff. I think reading from like-minded people who've been through something similar. Is amazing. 

Zibby: So what advice do you have for aspiring authors or just for people trying to overcome anything? Take your pick. 

Tiffany: I'm gonna do the author one because my first book, I submitted it to a bunch of publishers and they weren't interested and that's okay.

I ended up publishing it myself. I Googled how to write a book, how to format a book, how to self-publish a book, and then I just did it and it ended up selling incredibly well, you know. For whatever reason, I got lucky. And then it ended up being picked up by a publishing company. So to me, I feel like if somebody has a story to tell, no matter who you are, no matter what your background is, you gotta tell it.

And if, if you feel like it won't make a difference, like I had moments of self-doubt I had, who's gonna care, who's gonna read this? But I did it anyway and I'm, I think that the purpose of our stories isn't for us. I think we experience these things so that we can show other people that they aren't alone and we know a way out.

And so if you have a story to tell, tell it. If you wanna write, just start writing. And if you, Google is a great tool if you don't know what you're doing. 

Zibby: No, I can YouTube my way through anything. 

Tiffany: Yes, exactly. 

Zibby: Tiffany, thank you so much. I am so impressed. And thank you. Thank you. And congrats. 

Tiffany: Well, thank you so much for doing such an incredible job of, you know, being thorough and reading it and not, you know, it, you could tell that you put a lot of time and energy into your work and what you do, uh, so that when these people show up you are aware of what they're doing.

And I think that's really important. It made me feel really special and I appreciate you and what you do. 

Zibby: Oh, thank you. 

Well, I totally, I could not put it down, so there you go. 

Tiffany: Thank you. 

Zibby: Alright, thanks so much. Take care. 

Tiffany: Thank you. 

Zibby: Okay. 

Tiffany: Bye-bye.