Zibby chats with former casting executive Tess Sanchez (who is married to actor and past podcast guest Max Greenfield!) about WE’VE DECIDED TO GO IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION, a moving and witty essay collection about career upheaval, identity, and resilience. Tess reflects on a pivotal two-year period in her life that was filled with unexpected setbacks. She opens up about the shock of losing a career that had defined her for two decades, the struggle to reframe her sense of self beyond work, and the unexpected humor that emerged from this moment of crisis. She also touches on her experience navigating her father’s aphasia and Alzheimer’s diagnosis—and how grief and humor often exist side by side.

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome Tess. Thank you so much for coming on Totally Booked With Zibby to discuss, We've Decided To Go In A Different Direction essays. 

Tess: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. 

Zibby: Tell listeners, please, what your book is about.

Tess: My book is about a sort of a two year period of my life in which I experienced and dealt with a lot of what I like to call in the book painful favors, which are some challenges, unexpected challenges that ultimately were hard, but ended up being probably, interesting and good pivots in my life.

Zibby: Do you really look back and feel like that? I know there was so much in your book about, what happens when you are in a career that you're really proud of and things go off the rails and you just ha have a hard time even ha recontextualizing your identity after so long.

Tess: Yeah. That, that's really what the book is about is, me questioning why so much of myself was defined by my job and my career and the other roles in my life really being secondary to, this like purpose, this driving purpose that, that I really felt so passionate about.

And yeah, when that goes away. Like it, it really did make me look at all of the relationships in my life and they were all seen through this prism of, I'm a career woman and I have, this really big life aside outside of my family and outside of my children and outside of my husband, that I found so fulfilling.

And there's a point in the book where I look at my kids and say oh, hello, nice to meet you. I haven't spent this much time with you before. Yeah I, I think, it's been, a time of sort of self-reflection and in doing that I had to go back to the beginning of building my career and how I got there.

That's why I do a look back on, on my early casting days and getting to the place of why this career had meant so much to me over 20 years. 

Zibby: And it all started at BCBG. 

Tess: Yeah, that's right, I love your shoes. 

Zibby: And by the way, I was living like right above Sunset Plaza in 1998 to 2000, and I remember going into that BCBG and like getting. 

Tess: Did you oh my gosh.

Zibby: Yeah. For some big I had. 

Tess: Oh my God, that's I probably helped you. 

Zibby: Yeah, we probably yeah, crossed paths because I walked by, 

I thought it was the closest to New York that I could walk around and 

Tess: Oh yeah, for sure. That was a hot, that was a hot strip back in the day. 

Zibby: It was really fun.

It was. Throughout everything that's happened in your life, you have been very driven and you know what you want and you're open to just throwing yourself in and being like, yes, I'll be an intern. Yes, I'll try this. Yes, like you wrote this one note to a potential boss saying I might not have as much experience, but I'm gonna work really hard.

And he literally was like. I get a good feeling about you come on board. That's right. And I feel like that's such an important lesson. Lesson especially, is like the millennials are in the job force and so true. 

Tess: It's like the one thing that I try to instill in my own kids is just like this sense of it's okay to take risks and it's okay to put yourself out there even if it feels scary and uncomfortable.

It's how things, it's how movement happens in your life. And I, I always say to Max, my husband, I'm like, you were born with a lot of just like beautiful gifts. Like you didn't have to try very hard for some of the things that you were born able to do. I did not have an apparent gift from God, so my gift was my drive, and I found out very young that like I was gonna have to be the force in my life in order to make things happen. And yeah, I think like that drive, I think is just innate. It certainly is, started with my father and my mom who basically were very independent when I was growing up and had their own lives and they were, not particularly into facilitating opportunity for me.

I knew I had to do that myself. 

Zibby: Interesting. How does that go over when you say that to your husband? 

Tess: You were just born this way.

 I know. I'm like, you haven't worked hard. No, I'm just kidding. He has worked hard and certainly, he had 10 years of auditioning before he had a real break, which is, amazing and also really hard.

But I actually do remember meeting him and being like, oh I guess things just come easy for you. That's why I'm like clawing my way. 

Zibby: I think it just speaks to all these different assumptions we make, so quickly about people, right? And now you've been married for so long and what does it mean?

Like no one likes to, just so anyway, whatever. I could go down a whole rabbit hole here. Oh my gosh. I won't pry apart your marriage. Anyway, your drive end ends up getting you all these great things. You meet so many stars as they're on their way up and you learn from the best to identify talent and that certain something that will make someone shine at the beginning.

You're so funny being like really like why? Until you realize that you have that gift yourself. You can figure it out. 

Tess: And I think it is by osmosis of the amazing people that I've worked with. And, a lot of I often tell actors like, the best thing that you could do is to spend one pilot season working as as an intern in a casting office because it gives you such perspective on actors when you see them coming in and auditioning and just what to do, what not to do, who really stands out to you, who's doing something different, but in a good way and who's doing something different but in a bad way, and how all that translates. But it, it's such an incredible learning experience and, I had incredible mentors that, were like, no, this is what.

This is what makes this person special and, this is how they shine. And it, it took years to hone that, but ultimately I think I got there. 

Zibby: So when you look back and you think about the different directions that your life has taken you in, like where did you actually think it was going?

Tess: Oh, I thought I would be carried out on a stretcher from my last job. I thought I was gonna be in that job forever, and I would've been. And so I, I do think that, life happens the way it's supposed to. And, the universe knew that I needed a little kick in order to leave a, what felt like a very comfortable, yet fulfilling situation.

I knew I was good at my job and I knew I was confident in my skillset. And, maybe that was like somebody saying, hey, you're not done yet. Evolving as a human being. You need to develop another skill set. You need to feel uncomfortable and change to really, like become more evolved as like a full human being.

Zibby: I love when I don't love it. It was really sad. But you're, you just keep repeating like, this is not how, this is how my story ends. This is how my story ends. 

Tess: Yes. 

Zibby: And you're in such shock that your husband like puts his face in the Zoom and was like, this is over now. And just closes it down.

Tess: Yeah. Neil, it's still so vivid in my mind. Have you ever been blindsided like that before? 

Zibby: Yeah, things happen all the time. 

Tess: Okay. 

Zibby: Yeah, of course. And I think part of what's hard is that you've already planned a future in a certain way, right? For sure. And then you have to go back and you have to change all of those sort of plans like you had just like it's, you are not just losing the present, you're losing all that potential future. 

Tess: Right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I definitely felt initially when it happened, like I was at a bit of a dead end. I was like, this is over for me. And I really really love to like wallow in that for, six months before I started to, get off my butt and started creatively just generating again. And I, I think I mentioned in the book I was like, every other day I was coming up with a new business idea and, that was like an interesting thing to learn about myself. It was like, I can't sit still. And so I'm like, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna.

Just do people's dinner parties and just do, tablescapes, or I'm gonna have a cocktail line. I, I was literally like taking things like three fourths of the way down the field with these ideas. And then I was like, I can't, I'm not gonna get a liquor license and, produce alcohol.

But, it was all part of this journey and part of that was. In real time writing, writing some of this stuff down and not really knowing where this was going, and ultimately it became a book, which, still surprises me. I know. 

Zibby: It's so exciting. And by the way, my husband and I, for a while were sitting at the bar at most restaurants 'cause I don't like to wait for tables.

So if there's seat available. 

Tess: Yeah. I love a good bar meal. 

Zibby: And so finally we were like, let's launch like a his and hers tequila. Box set. I'm like, how would we do this? What would the bottle look like? We went down this whole rabbit hole too. 

Tess: Yeah. That's very relatable.

Zibby: So I get it. I totally get it.

Tell me about the process of writing the book, and even like the editing process. How much did things change from the beginning? How much did it change from what you thought it would be when you first started writing it to even when you finished your first draft? 

Tess: Yeah, we, you and I met early on in the pitch process, but before that, I, the real truth is I was literally following my husband around telling him asking him these big life questions.

Why am I not good enough for that? And what should I do next? And he said to me. I'd like, please, I'm begging you. Go hire a professional sounding board. Get a therapist. I can't do this anymore. I don't have the answers that you're looking for. But I was like, but why? But why? And so I did.

I went to therapy and part of that process as I was in the middle, like literally in the middle of this, of just trying to figure out how I got here and what happened. This therapist was like, you gotta write some of this stuff down. Like it is just really gonna be helpful to you to relive these things on paper.

And so that's how it really started is like, it was an assignment and then, in, in writing like the present day stuff, which was like about my dad and the loss of a job and having my full identity crisis. Like I mentioned earlier I ended up looking back a little bit and then it just, it all started to take on a life of its own.

And when I finished writing, I was like, oh, this is like a, this is, there's an arc here. This is like a story. This is a story. And I certainly, when my dad passed away, it really... and I found all the letters that I had written him, it really felt like the period at the end of a sentence, like I was like oh, like this is all this was meant to be this journey. And that part, I had written probably 80% of the book. And then when I got to, meet Andy and I got to meet you and a couple other people, and ultimately Simon and Schuster, they basically said this is too sad, like you need to add some like humor to this 'cause it's just too sad of a read. And I was like, understood. And so I went back and I was like, I was actually in a pretty good place at that point to start to. See some humor in, in, in these things and it's like, what is the definition of comedy?

It's like tragedy plus time. And I was just moving far enough away to see how absolutely absurd, I and manic, I had been in this process of I want self discovery and being able to write that and infuse comedy into some of the sad stuff, like when I'm looking for a retirement place for my parents and like really it's one of, it was so depressing, but I was able to go back and find ways to infuse like my own brand of like cynicism and humor and irony in those.

And you know that, that. A lot of the comedy stuff came later and that was part of the editing of you can't, as a first time writer, I definitely, I didn't have perspective 'cause I was just streaming of consciousness, like writing down these events that were traumatic and it was really helpful to, to hear from my editor, this is really good, but to make this a full story where you can get, humor and heart and sadness and tears and all those things here's what you need to go back and do. And that was, because of the timing that was actually, the fun assignment part of like, how can I make this funny?

Yeah. And I got to pull I got, I went back and I like pitched. I pitched during a lunch. I was like, I did DM Britney Spears. I don't know if that's normal or not. And like the fork was like, you did what? It's write about that please. Nuts. And then I realized that just fill it, it fit into my, my, it fit into casting and like how I'm just like a busy body and meddling into things. And it and it really became like, oh, this is part of the story. This is part of who I am. 

Yeah, that was fun. 

Zibby: And what about coping with your dad's aphasia, which I'm, that's that's hard to make super funny, right?

That's like a real 

Tess: Yeah. Like heavy event. And it was one that they said, god, you've gotta figure out and I think I, I pushed back on that initially of just being like, there is nothing fucking funny about this. This is just really awful. Yep. And, it's like all of this was coming to be.

Randomly when like the word aphasia was coming out into the world because of Bruce Willis. And I just was like my, the idea of losing the ability to speak is just so dark and such a death and like ultimately, when it's combined with Alzheimer's where you lose the ability to read and write and it's just, it's devastating and you know that, that part of the book is just very honest and with my mom and having her process, like watching her try to process this and also.

Try to also pretend like it wasn't really happening. Which I was like, okay, I guess everybody has their own, methods of coping, but, it was. It was hard to watch, for sure.

Zibby: I'm so sorry. You wrote about it beautifully, and I'm just so sorry that you had to go through that.

And same for him and your mom and everyone. 

Tess: Yeah. 

Zibby: So you have this big, exciting launch coming. I've been seeing all the visuals of your upcoming events and all of that. What are you looking forward to about touring for the book and all of that? 

Tess: I'm most excited about. The book being out in the world and like people having it, it just I haven't given it to friends and family.

I've really kept it close and like literally I am just now having it be part of the world and hearing people like getting texts from people that are like, oh my God, this is what resonated with me that's the most exciting 'cause it is such a solitary experience, as from writing your books that you know, you're in this solitary experience, and then you're like, and here's the gift, or here's what I'm giving you. And then you actually get to talk to people about this very singular experience. And that's really exciting to me. Like I'm really excited about that. And yeah, just like having. I'm excited to talk about it and have exchanges and yeah.

I'm excited to come and visit you. 

Zibby: Yay. 

Tess: At Zibby's Books. That's gonna be great. 

Zibby: I can't wait. I'm so excited you're coming. That's awesome. 

Tess: Yeah. 

Zibby: Really great. What advice do you have for aspiring authors now that you are an author? 

Tess: Oh, wow. I'm still getting used to that, but I think, writing your own story, is really..

Can be very therapeutic and try not to judge it too much. Just try to do it. And I think the most like meaningful thing that I experienced was when you're not writing it trying to please other people, you're just writing it for yourself. It's a different experience. And I think the same goes for like promoting a book.

It's just you can't try to, have it be for other people. You just have to understand that this is your journey and like you're going to it, it shouldn't matter what the outside is thinking, just, stay present to what you're doing. And I think everyone should have an experience of writing their own book.

I really do. 

And I think I didn't. I never set out to write a book and, but I, as like I go, I don't do things halfway. So I just was like now I gotta finish this. 

Zibby: Yeah. 

Tess: And I gotta sell this, and so I feel like I, woke up one day and I'm like, now on a Zoom with Zibby Owens and I'm like, wait a minute.

So this, I actually did. I went all the way. 

Zibby: You went all the way. You did a great job. You're, you should be so proud of yourself. Like it's very exciting and thank you. Thanks. It's not easy just to put all of your inner most stuff out into the world. It is vulnerable and nerve wracking. Even the most steely, hardened people when they put what's inside.

It's a whole different ball game. 

Tess: Yeah I think like one of the things that was, that was exciting was, when Max read the book for the first time, I had not let him read it. I had said, I, I'd like to talk about you getting sober and our relationship, is that okay? And he said, yes.

But I waited until the book was sent to Simon Schuster Legal, and I had legal, I, it was in the legal department and then I was like, okay, you can read it because, I can't go back and change anything because like they're already approving this. And he said to me after reading it there's so much internally that was going on with you that I had no idea and I was here living it with you and to really understand.

Even though, you were following me around and talking at me, all this time I didn't really understand the depth of what ultimately, like losing your job and this sort of new identity and new purpose in your life was about. And so I think, that I was there, but I didn't really understand until I read the book. And that made me really happy. 'cause I was like, oh, he gets this. 

Zibby: Congratulations Tess. I'm so excited for you. I'll be watching and cheering. 

Tess: And I'll be seeing you on the fourth. 

Zibby: Amazing. 

Tess: 4th of April, we're gonna be there.

Zibby: Awesome. 

Tess: Okay. 

Zibby: Okay. Thank you. That's it. Easy peasy. 

Tess: You're so welcome. Thank you, by the way, thanks for reading. 

Zibby: Of course. 

Tess: I'm so honored to be here and have you have read the book, so thank you so much. 

Zibby: Oh my gosh. I, of course. Of course. Okay.