Zibby is joined by writing duo 'Taylor Hutton' (the pseudonym used by bestselling authors Adele Griffin and Julie Buxbaum!) to discuss STRIKE AND BURN, a seductive, devastating, and unputdownable dark romance. The two share how their friendship—originally set up by author Sarah Mlynowski—evolved into a collaborative writing partnership and an unexpected dive into dark romance (or… “traumantasy”). They delve into their unique writing process, the freedom of writing under a pseudonym, and how their book explores trauma, love, and healing.

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome, ladies. We're talking about Strike and Burn today.

The pen name, Taylor Hutton, but tell everybody who you really are. Da da da. 

Julie: I'm Julie Buxbaum. I have written a bunch of books for adults and young adults and middle grade, but this is my first jointly written novel and my first foray into dark romance. 

Adele: I'm Adele Griffin and this is also my first foray into dark romance, though I also have written a bunch of books for middle grade and young adult and adult.

We are mirrors. 

Zibby: Yes, kind of like the identical twins in the book, right? There you go. Both sides of the story. 

Adele: I'm a watcher. 

Julie: I'm a dancer. 

Zibby: Okay, so first of all, how did the two of you team up? And I saw that you dedicated this to Sarah Mladenowski who is like, why am I even doing this podcast and who I love and adore.

So, that's amazing. So did she pair you up and that's how you did the book? What happened? 

Julie: Sort of. It's so funny. Sarah is the starting point of so many creative, amazing productions in the world. Uh, yeah, so she set us up as friends, not as co writers. 

Adele: She sent Julie up, um, to, to sort of help me as I moved into L.

A., world, as a mom. Uh, Julie had all the info, and so Sarah was like, this is your person. She is going to ease your transition from Brooklyn to living here, and that was true. 

Julie: Yeah, it was, it was funny. Sarah had a very different conversation with me about me and Adele. Her conversation was, Adele's moving to LA.

You both are very deeply weird, but in different ways. But you will appreciate that deep weirdness about each other and understand that deep weirdness and you are going to love each other. And she was 100 percent right. It was like love at first sight. And then we started writing together, but not writing The same book together, just like getting together to write.

And then one day we started chatting about a book idea and we did not know it would actually become a book. It was sort of, you know, how writers just throw out ideas and chat about them and, um, just have fun chasing down that rabbit hole. 

Adele: It was like building a recipe that we didn't know what it would taste like.

We were like, what if. 

Julie: We wrote this in and we have no rules. 

Adele: It was just fun. And that was the first rule of it was one hour a day. Pass it back and forth on our shared Google Doc, untitled romance or whatever we had decided to call it. And you could work for an hour after your real work, sort of like Cinderella, after your real work is done,.. 

Julie: Um, put on those magic slippers.

Just an hour. 

Adele: I found myself at 2am looking on my phone. I had put the Google doc into my phone so I could see if Julie had written anything new in the day. I began to look so forward to what had happened in our book while I was, while I was gone. 

Zibby: That's so cool. What a fun way to do a project. I mean, and you can tell when you read something when authors are enjoying writing it.

Right, I think there's just something intangible, but like, something with the lightness or the energy, even in a dark romance, when like, People are enjoying it versus like slogging out sentences that don't even need to be there. Yeah, exactly, because I've been, we've been there too. 

Julie: And I think that's actually where this book came from is that we were there.

I think both of us were starting to feel like our real work felt like work and one of the best parts of being a writer is that work doesn't feel like work. Right. And so I think we were Both like, we need a hobby, like, we need something fun to do. And since neither of us are people who could play pickleball, there was no coordination for us.

This felt like, you know, a great, just fun outlet. The fact that it became a book is sort of just gravy because it was more about the, the curious exercise, I think, than the actual book itself. Yeah. And I, I feel like that's the magic alchemy that makes it really fun. Like, the book itself is fun because of it.

Zibby: So, did each of you then write a chapter, essentially, or like a short, not even a chapter? 

Adele: No, we don't even know. The joke is we don't, Taylor Hutton wrote the book because I'll go back through it and have no idea who wrote what. I mean, it's become such a blend of, we have a joke that we're the mom of Taylor Hutton because she's this young, free spirited, dark romance writing.

Also has a pseudonym, doing her own thing. And then we're, we're kind of looking at pages going, Whoa, that's, that's a lot.

Zibby: So did you feel like you use the pseudonym to give you the freedom to just write sort of out of character in a way? Or like, did you consider using your real names? 

Julie: We never considered using our real names mostly because I don't think we feel like we wrote it. I mean, I feel exactly the same way. I mean, when I was working on it, I always felt like I was writing for an audience of one, which was Adele.

And I think Del felt the same way. Like we were writing to each other purely for each other's entertainment and feelings. 

Adele: It was like eighth grade. 

Julie: It really was like eighth grade passing the notebook back and forth. And so when it came time to actually, like, when we actually were like, whoa, we did write a book and this is an actual book that we could sell.

Adele: And it happens to be in a business that we're already in. 

Julie: Yes. 

Adele: It happens to be. 

Zibby: It's so funny. My hobby is actually my job. 

How about that? 

Julie: Thank you. We wanted a name that felt really separate from us. We toyed with a pseudonym that was connected. That was A. J. Windsor. So Adele and Julie Windsor, which is a street that Adele used to live on.

Where most of the book was written. And then, we felt like, first of all, it felt a little royal. But also felt connected to us. And you were like, no, Taylor is not at all connected to who we are as people. I mean, dark romance is also not connected to who we are as people. I love it. We loved writing it, but you know, knowing us, the last thing you'd think we'd write is dark romance.

Like we should be writing cozy coffee shop mysteries set on a rainy day and

Adele: second chance love, 

Julie: second chance love in Northern Ireland, you know, that kind of thing. 

Adele: Why didn't we do that? I still don't know why we didn't do that. 

Julie: So, um, well, Taylor had to be someone so different from us, and so it was, Taylor Swift was in her, you know, Eros tour, and she was everywhere, and we felt like we wanted, like, the badass powerhouse of Taylor, and then, like, the old school glamour of Hutton.

Zibby: Love it. Wow. Well, you realize that to people who are not writers, the idea that, like, you didn't write the book might not make sense, but I totally get what you're talking about. 

Adele: Like, it was such a freedom. 

Zibby: Creativity. You can't explain it. And especially collaborative creativity. Like, what does that even mean?

Where does that come from? How do you do it? So I appreciate the efforts to describe. But it's intangible. It's like one of those things. So I get it. 

Julie: It was even, I feel, I don't know if you feel this way though. I don't know if you ever talked about this, but when my book, whenever my books come out, I feel like it's like my kid going off to college.

And I, they're on their own now. Not that when my kids go off to college, they'll be on their own. But you know what I mean? The idea that it no longer belongs to me, it's part of the world and the world has to receive it on its own two feet, et cetera. With this book, it's like five steps further where it's not only like it stands on its own, but it's like, I wonder who wrote this.

It's the strangest separation between us and the book. Adele and I often fight. We'll like read a, not fight, fight, but we'll like read a passage and I'll be like, Oh Adele, that was totally you. And she'd be like, no, that was you. And then we truly don't know who wrote it. And we're like, Oh, Taylor. 

Zibby: Well, let's talk about the book itself.

And by the way, the writing is great. It's propulsive and accessible and page turning and all the good things that you want out of writing, like did not want to put it down, like really great, a little funny, right? Like, and yet talking about really tough subjects as well. I mean, you're, you're talking about like you open in the morgue and there's, you know, family violence and really tough scenes with their dad.

And, you know, I mean, it's, it's not light and fluffy. All the time, there's, it's, and I guess that's why you keep calling it dark romance, but talk about that. Where did it, and even just the whole premise of having an abusive relationship and always feeling scared and not knowing and even after, maybe, I won't give anything away, but even after.

Things happen. Is the fear ever gone? And what does that mean? I mean, these are, this is heavy. 

Adele: Yeah. Well, Julie was the one who kind of wanted to get into the, you know, she, she wrote just sort of the first piece of the backstory, you know, it just sort of arrived, Taylor, and it was, and Ike really connected to the way she had been thinking of this backstory that sort of in, you know, layered into this to the book because suddenly this over the top story had a real little, you know, family there and, and a real history and a sort of a why, why had this all happened?

And it was, I think, a great way of anchoring with that writing something that made sense to us both having been. young adult, middle grade, writing a lot of young characters. The young family feels, you know, you know, really synergized to the big book, but also felt like, oh, this is a great jumping off place.

In my head, it felt great because suddenly. these characters, who I don't know I would have completely related to, started to make sense as real characters in a book. And I think that was, it was a really smart call because it was sort of more how we both wrote, you know, with there's that backstory feels, you know, it's really emotional, but it has more nuance.

Then this front story that's kind of, you know, moving things forward, snapping things along. So I think it was 

Julie: helpful. Yeah. I mean, I think it's our natural organic writing place for both of us. Dark romance is not, but sort of layered characters who make sense within this sort of larger fantastical world.

I think we needed that grounding to understand them and accept them. I think there were two sort of motivations. I think that was sort of. the writing motivation. I mean, just as us as writers, it just is how it sort of unfolded. But in terms of the characterization in the novel itself, we knew we were writing about two very broken people and their brokenness complementing each other and the acceptance that comes from someone seeing your brokenness and loving you, not only in spite of it, but because of it.

And so we wanted to create these backstories that made that make sense. Adele and I talked a lot about this concept of tromantacy, which I think Adele coined. I love that. That is good. And I, we don't mean fantasy as in, you know, dragon's fourth wing fantasy. We mean fantasy as an aspirational, you know, the striking anti hero billionaire who comes in and sort of rescues her while she rescues him.

Like the, the fantastical elements of the book. Wait, what 

Zibby: about, what about Tromcom? 

Julie: Is that a thing? Trom Tom works too. Oh, I love that. But I feel like our book is less calm and more rom, but I want to write a Trom Tom now. Right? I feel like, all 

Zibby: right, I'm gonna write it down. Just like to say for the record, I coined that on this call.

There it is, the timestamp. I 

Julie: think it's going to be a Google Doc later, being like, one hour a day, Zippy, because you have so much free time. Honestly, that's, 

Zibby: no, but that sounds like fun. You know, when you, well, anyway, back, that's back to the process. I 

Julie: title Tromcom coming to your inbox later. This is how the magic happens.

Like, 

Zibby: okay. Actually, the title could actually just be Tromcom. 

Julie: Oh, my God. Yes. This is why you're a publisher. 

Adele: It's a really good idea. 

Julie: Seriously, you're packaging this right now, right? Yes, I am. Yes, I am. I'm writing it down and it's sticky for the wall of ideas to come. But the idea for us with Traumanticy was using the fantastical elements or this propulsive, juicy love story to allow people to process trauma.

It's, I think people see themselves in these characters and then get to go on this journey where they find love, where they deal with their trauma in ways they probably can't in real life. And hopefully the idea is that, um, this sort of escape is kind of healing. Yeah. Well, what do you, 

Zibby: what do you do with?

All the loss, right? The backstory, there is so much loss already. When Taylor meets, you know, when she goes off on her journey, right? She's lost her brother and her parents and now her sister, right? And then she's like, I know I should be like on the apps dating, but like, who is this guy? And all of that, but like to take all of that with you and then to be in the room.

And I know this is just one scene and you know, whatever, but how do you. How do you even, like, put one step ahead of each other? Because she seems fairly, like, together. Like, she's, she's doing things. She's, she's functioning amidst all of that. Which is impressive, in a way. Not to judge responses to, to loss and trauma.

But there's so much trauma in the world right now. And is Taylor a model for how to get through? What can we take from her to help everybody who is going through a trauma or a loss? 

Adele: Well, I think Julie had a thing. She said, you know, you can always turn everything up to 11 in this book because then you're sort of like safely in the world of Something that isn't quite, you know, it's like reality plus anchor there and then for somebody who is sort of able to to read and absorb these big things.

It also feels like you're almost safely in the fantasy of the book. You know, it's almost, it's meaningful to feel like, wow, this is so amplified. That I can find my own thing. But, you know, I've, I'm experiencing something, but look over here at her, look over here at this. And it's like, you're sort of.

Rowing your little boat through their story in some ways that can make a reading feel a little bit sort of safer. Yeah, 

Julie: it's true. Like the idea that we could have had her, you know, have parents and just this register, which would have been a devastating loss, right? Yes. But that would have been a seven and we were, we were aiming for 11.

And I think there is this sort of comfort in reading someone's story, which is just so devastating. Yeah. That provides, you know, it sounds bizarre that. The harshness of it provides comfort, but I think it might. Mm 

Adele: hmm. 

Julie: It's like Jane Eyre. Yeah. 

Adele: Well, it is. It's not quite Jane Eyre. But I remember reading Jane Eyre, 

Zibby: and I was like, oh, Jane Eyre.

Adele: Yeah. Yeah. 

Zibby: When I got to the part about the cat. Oh my god. Like, I was like, stop. Really? Tell me about that. 

Julie: Okay, so it's a really good question because that was one of those scenes where we, okay, so we said we're going to turn it up to 11 and we had a rule that there was no such thing as too far. We can go as, which, and with every single scene we actually did sit and every, almost every line we discussed like, how can we push this further?

Right? How, if it was a sad scene, how can we make this sadder? If it was an emotional scene, how can we make them feel more heightened or more passionate? If it was a sexy scene, how can we make this sexier? Right? Everything was turned, the dial was turned as high as it would go. With the cat, we turned it really high and it was the only time where we're like, let's turn this back just a notch.

If you can imagine. If you can imagine. We turned it down. We had spatchcocked the cat. Oh, stop. I, and had the bad guy, Troy. Deliver the carcass of the cat on a platter for her to eat with it spatchcocked 

Adele: and almost goes to a place where It's just not believable. Yeah. It was farce as opposed 

Julie: to too far. As opposed to enjoying the 11, that was farce.

Yeah. And we were like, okay, yes, there's some campy elements, but this is, this is true camp and that's not what we're doing. So we had a, we had to dial that back. I can't remember who was responsible for the spatchcocked cat. Just leave it. Yeah. I don't know. And I suspect might be me. I don't know. 

Zibby: I also love just her abundant curiosity when she starts.

Getting into, you know, this guy, right, and starts working there and all of that. And yet, she's like, what is his life like, what, it's like that when you can't stop thinking about somebody and you just need to know a little bit more and a little bit more and all of that. Like, that's hard to convey. In a book, right?

I think 

Julie: it mirrored our own curiosity. Like, this book, we both approached with just pure joy and curiosity. Like, we just wanted to know more and more and more. Um, I wanted to know more and more about what Adele was thinking and what she was going to write next. And I think, hopefully, she felt the same way.

Adele: And I totally agree with that. And I think there is also something really interesting about, sort of, in the profile of Taylor Hutton. Taylor Hutton is young. Mm. So, you know, But she's not someone who's been saying, take out the trash, you know, like with her, Taylor is young and the character is young. And so the romance had to be that kind of, I can't get this guy out of my mind.

Forever, which feels more like a 25 year old author in some ways, you know, that was the energy of the story, you know, think of Taylor at 3 a. m. Just like, I gotta finish this scene. It's got me so nuts, you know, 

Julie: and that was sort of aspirational for us to both of us. I mean, I spend a lot of time yelling at my husband about leaving his socks on the floor, right?

So to be able to escape that and be Taylor and actually be, you know, over the top in love and, you know, um, Excited and curious about someone new and mysterious was just a delight. 

Adele: It was like a reconnection with our younger writing selves too, I think, which also felt sort of heady, you know, I think we got excited, and then we had Taylor could get excited, and then we were writing about something where you could get, you know, you could really.

feel the zing. 

Julie: It's, what's interesting though is we're both like super reliable, hardcore worker, industrious listeners. Like we're just pretty type a. So we brought that type a industrious energy. Like we always felt like we need to be stewards of the book. And I think bringing that energy matched with the, the adventure of it all sort of worked together to make a book actually happen.

If we only had that curious energy and didn't bring the sort of I don't know, Responsible Mom Part 2. 

Adele: Like the bullet lists, all the things we need to address on this book, which you loved. 

Zibby: I did. I always made the lists. Have you started writing another one? Are you going to do another one? 

Julie: There's another one coming out next January.

It's already. Already? Oh my gosh. It's called Axe and Grind. It's a companion novel about two characters who are in Strike and Burn and their story. 

Zibby: Oh, yes. 

Julie: Another dark romance. 

Zibby: Wow. Axe. Yes. He has like that funny accent. Doesn't he have an accent? 

Julie: Yes. Yes. He has a sexy Scottish accent. Sexy Scottish. Okay.

Right. Adele can do it. I can't. I made Adele do all the, the broke stuff. I'm like, I can't. When 

Adele: you say Adele can do it, I see him like wobbling. Well, 

Zibby: that's exciting. So you have another one, which is, that's super clever. Love that continuation ish. Uh, and then what about your, your real work, quote unquote, do you have other books that you've written individually that are in the works or coming out?

What's the status there? 

Julie: I have the fourth area 51 files, which is my middle grade series, um, for eight to 12 year olds coming out this summer. Okay. As the, as far from strike and burn as you can get. I mean, it's Like a silly, Area 51, alien, farting, fun kids book, like a true kids book. And I am also working on an adult novel that is just, you know, kicking my tits.

Adele: I have an adult novel and, uh, just finished a first draft, so it's, you know, has to go live somewhere apart from me for a while, while the dust settles on all of that feeling, all that first draft feeling. But it is older characters. It's sort of a second chance romance. Oh, love it. Amazing. 

Zibby: Awesome. Well, I'm so inspired by this project.

It sounds so fun. I'm like, who can I write a book with for an hour a day and have as much fun as the two of you have? So, and it came out great and I'm just, you know, it's awesome. Creativity is like, you, you're it. What's that expression? Like capturing something in a bottle, like magic in a bottle, you know?

It's like you kind of do something like that. 

Julie: Anyway, it's all been fun. Yeah. It's like it's crazy alchemy. Yeah. 

Zibby: Crazy alchemy. There you go. 

Julie: Or maybe the, the secrets, just knowing Sarah and having Sarah, it's just sort of, it's, it's 

Zibby: in that group and all of us. Sarah, what do I need? The magic Sarah wand. I love it.

Congratulations. And thanks so much for coming on. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Bye ladies. Okay. Bye. Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibi. Formerly, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens, and spread the word.

Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.