In this special episode (a live event at Zibby’s Bookshop!), film editor and bestselling author Lauren Ling Brown discusses her haunting and atmospheric debut (and Reese’s Book Club Pick!), SOCIETY OF LIES, with writer and editor Halley Sutton. The two delve into the novel’s themes of sisterhood, secret societies, and the dark side of privilege at elite universities. Lauren reveals how her own experiences shaped her protagonist, who grapples with belonging and morality. She also shares her creative process, the journey to becoming a published author, the heartwarming moment she shared an advanced copy with her dad, and her exciting plans for her next mystery.

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome, Taylor. Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books to discuss A Home for the Holidays. Congratulations. 

Taylor: Thank you. I'm so, so happy to be here. Thanks for having me. 

Zibby: I mean, I know we're both so cheery today, but there are some sad themes to the book and loss, and I am so sorry that you lost your mom.

I saw it on February 2nd, 2022, that's a lot of twos. Anyway, I'm sorry for your loss, but I feel the way you infused the narrative with your own feelings, I'm guessing, is what made it so powerful and so real and raw, and I felt like that all came out. So, anyway. 

Taylor: Thank you. Well, I'm glad that it resonated with you in that way.

It certainly was part of my grief journey. I remember after my mom died, saying to my husband, I felt like I wanted to write about this, but I really didn't know if I was capable because it is just so hard to be honest about the hardest feelings that you've ever had in your life and, and, you know, really drill down on, you know, deeply how it's affecting you and then put it on the page.

But I honestly feel like it helped me heal. I do like, I feel like Barb and Henry and Mel helped me. And I think of them as like real people that helped me grieve and heal. And I'm like, thankful to them for that. 

Zibby: Oh, that's really nice. I like that. Can I ask how your mom died? Is that okay to ask? 

Taylor: She, yeah, she died.

I mean, she died suddenly. She had a stroke and passed away and it was very unexpected. So it was pretty unexpected. It was horrendous. I mean, it was the worst day of my life, so I feel like it's been two years now, and it in a lot of ways still just feels like yesterday. It's just stunning, so I am thankful that I have had an opportunity to really write about it and do a lot of processing, and I'm very thankful to my therapist, who I also thanked in the acknowledgements, and I'm going to send her a copy.

Zibby: My husband's mom died four years ago, and it still feels like it just happened. Like so two years ago, it was like literally yesterday, so I don't know, that's very, uh, it's just amazing to write a whole novel through the grief and everything is, you know, bonus points for whatever that's worth. I'm just so sorry.

Taylor: Thank you. 

Zibby: Back to the book, tell listeners what the book is about. 

Taylor: Sure. So it's about a wedding singer named Mel, and she has a complicated relationship with her mom. And two weeks before Christmas, she learns that her mom has died and it is unexpected for her as well. And she then really has nowhere to go over Christmas because she's broken up with her boyfriend and she really doesn't want to move back into her mom's house and face that grief.

And so, she's contacted by this woman who's claiming to be her mom's estranged best friend, named Barb, and she ultimately ends up moving in with Barb. Somewhat reluctantly, kind of feeling like she has nowhere else to go. But then when she does move into Barb, into Barb's house, she starts learning about her mom's life and in ways that she never really thought possible and learned that her mom was trying to be a country music star, but had been wronged by this man, and she feels like she's confronted with the ways that she never knew her mom.

I mean, I think that's kind of one of the themes I was trying to get at is that we never really know our mothers truly. And how devastating that is, but also kind of how beautiful it is that our moms have had this whole life before we even existed. And then, you know, it ends up being a really transformative experience for her, living with Barb and meeting her family and kind of confronting what she wants for herself in the process of looking back at her mom's life.

Zibby: Uh oh. I found it interesting when she's first getting to know Barb and she's showing her all the pictures that Barb tells the story of how hard it was to be Jewish on Broadway when she was starting out and how she changed her name and she was too Jewish for this thing but not Jewish enough for that.

Like, where did that piece of it come from? 

Taylor: Yeah, I really wanted so I wanted it's a holiday book, obviously, but I really didn't want it to be about Christmas only, you know, I wanted it to be inclusive of all the holidays. That's the way that I grew up to celebrating both Christmas and Hanukkah. And I just think there's something so beautiful about that.

So I really wanted the character of Barb to be Jewish. And I mean, thinking through her life of trying to be on Broadway in that era, in the late 70s and early 80s, that's how it would have been. I mean, that's probably how it still is, you know? So I unfortunately don't think that much has changed in that regard.

And so that just felt very authentic for her. And the character of Barb, for me, was very much inspired by Barbra Streisand. I always wonder if people are going to pick up on that. 

Zibby: Well, you, you, you mentioned Barbra Streisand in the book. Sort of a giveaway. Your little tell, you know. And then Barb's son, Henry, who she meets not even knowing who he was.

Talk about him as another character and how you saw that whole relationship developing. 

Taylor: Yeah. So I really, I really love their journey because they're both coming together at a really difficult time in their lives. And have you read the book, uh, Evie Drake Starts Over?

Zibby: Uh, no. 

Taylor: It's really, it's a great book.

I'd highly recommend it. It's by Linda Holmes. And it is also similarly about these two people that are living in a house together. And they're both at a really hard time in their lives. And I just think that's a really fun dynamic, you know, kind of being stuck proximity wise and spending a lot of time together and really getting to know the truth of someone early on.

If you're living together, there are no secrets. So I loved that about the two of them. And I think that they have a really authentic relationship in that they're just so honest with each other. And I think that's so romantic and beautiful and, and so true to falling in love quickly. 

Zibby: Well, you also do a really nice job of writing about bad boyfriends, which is also hilarious, um, from Camille, who I don't know, maybe it wasn't his fault that they went away over Christmas, but anyway, to Dan, who prioritizes sort of band travel and just has the worst timing ever.

Yeah. What are we to learn about dating and love and finding yourself and feeling alone in the wrong relationship and all of that? What should we take away? 

Taylor: I think that a big takeaway came from, so the character of Dan is very unsupportive when her mother dies. He's very much like, Okay, you were sad for a few days and now it's time for you to not be sad anymore because it's affecting me personally and I just want to move on from this.

Zibby: He's like, let's get to our dinner reservation on time. And she's like, yeah, 

Taylor: yeah, exactly. That was literally the complete opposite of my husband. When my mom passed away, who was just willing to just hold me in bed while I cried, you know, just like everything I know now I'm going to cry, but the ways that he was there for me during that time really inspired the opposite in Dan because I was just thinking like what would it really be like if you're with somebody who's just unwilling to tolerate your grief So I think the takeaway is that you have to be with someone who is just willing to let you be sad, even if it affects their life, you know?

Zibby: Yeah. 

Taylor: Yeah. 

Zibby: So the book was supposed to be somewhat different, right? And then it ended up in this direction. Tell me the whole story of this book. 

Taylor: Yes. So I had wanted to write a holiday book, actually. That had kind of been in my mind because I love. I just love the holidays and I'm always the person who watches every single, you know, holiday movie that comes out on Netflix.

So I thought that would be super fun. And I had envisioned a story that would involve people living in a house together and music is something that I really wanted to write about, which is the big part of the book as well and the holidays. But I didn't really know much more than that. And it was just a little bit of a vague idea, and I had started playing around with certain things, but then my mom passed away.

And so, and that was truly at the time that I was trying to sell this novel. So I had kind of put together this outline for my agent, and then, I mean, Thank God for everyone that I was working with that were, you know, so flexible with me because I was like, okay, it's actually about this now and just really wrote the truth of.

Of, you know, my grief journey and, and it became a much deeper novel, but still, I think I do think it has its fun part still. I mean, there's the whole, there's the country music aspect of it. And I love the 70s music aspect of it. And there, there's a lot of fun still, but it did become much deeper and, and more, more serious, I guess you could say and I really wrote it not really knowing where the journey would take me But I think what it ultimately became was really just a reimagining of this ending that I never got to have with my mom I mean imagine imagine the the beauty that would come from like really getting to Experience your mom's life in a new way after they're gone.

And so it reimagining for me 

Zibby: Ugh, well the way it ends up, I kind of dare people not to cry on the last page, like it's just so full circle and so poignant, oh my gosh. You can just see it like it's a scene in a movie, the whole thing. 

Oh, I'm so happy you feel that way. 

Wow, it's like, it's really, I mean, it's very powerful.

Very, very powerful. Did writing this make you cry? Like, did you have days where you sat there and just cried on the keyboard? 

Taylor: Yes, which is really an interesting experience for me. I mean, with my first book, I did not cry, but that was a very different novel about swingers. So. And with that one I was trying to make myself laugh, but with this one, yes, I mean there are a few scenes, I don't want to give any spoilers, but there are a couple of scenes where the emotions are just so raw and really true to my experience and the complicated grief that I had.

And I really had to put myself back in that moment of just extreme grief. And so, yes, I would just cry as I was writing. And then I would, you know, I would wonder, how is this going to affect other people? Like, will they Will they care, will it resonate with them? But I do think a lot of people have cried, so I feel like it is having that effect on people.

But hopefully it makes you laugh and cry. 

Zibby: Yeah. That's my, yeah. It's, it's clever too. I mean it's, it's very clever. 

Taylor: Yeah. 

Zibby: It's very clever. It's like, you know, page flipping and everyone has their, their, their story. I mean, the holidays just highlight anything going on with the family, right? The tension or the loss or the comedy or, or all of it.

And it just like, that's an extra spotlight, you know, like you turn an iPhone flashlight on it or something like that.

Taylor: Yeah. 

Zibby: Wait, can you back up and tell me about like when you became a writer and your first book and how you had success with that and like when you, like, just give me the whole backstory 

Taylor: Yes.

So my first novel is called The Lifestyle and it came out in June of 2022. And it's very different in that when I set out to write that book, I really wanted to just write something kind of fun and feminist. And it is about this woman who finds out her husband's having an affair. And so instead of divorcing him or, or, you know, any of the more obvious solutions, she says, all right, if you want to sleep with other people, we'll become swingers.

And so they become swingers in New York and they just embark on this crazy journey of getting to know that. And then throughout that process, they really have to take a hard look at themselves and like what they actually want in life. So that was very fun. And and I think I wrote that book more for other people.

You know, I was trying to entertain and when I wrote this one, I was really writing it more for myself. And just to process everything that I had been through. 

Zibby: Wow. Well, the gift of entertainment is not to be minimized, right? Putting it out in the world, that can be what people need who are grieving. You know, some people want to see their reflection, their emotions reflected back.

And I think others feel like they need that escape. So there you go. You have both ends covered of the spectrum. And of course, you know, For people who aren't grieving too, of course, but you know, so did you want to be a writer forever? Like, is that your first job? Like, what was your first job? What were your internships and all that?

Taylor: Oh, yes. So I did want to be a writer forever, but I was always very, very scared to pursue that dream. I'm definitely a risk averse person. And so I became a lawyer and I'm actually still a lawyer. But. I'm very lucky because I, I, I helped run the pro bono program at a firm. And so I am able to write in my free time.

So I'm, I still do write and practice law, but my first job was actually as a second grade teacher. So I've really run the game. 

Zibby: Your students must be so excited for you. 

Taylor: They know, but that would be really fun. 

Zibby: Oh, my one of my kids had a teacher who was also an author and thought it was like the coolest thing ever.

And of course, I got the book right away and, you know, like read them chapters of upcoming things. And they thought that was so cool. So that is really cool. 

What made you go from teacher to teacher? The lawyer. 

Taylor: Oh, good question. I think I was number one, probably just really searching to try to find myself.

I did teach for America. So I taught for two years in Brooklyn. And then when that concluded, I was trying to ask myself what was next in law school felt like a good fit. But again, that's me being like a very risk averse person. But honestly, I don't regret it at all. Like being a lawyer made me for me a better writer for sure.

And I also think it, it made me feel like more of a capable person. Like, I feel like I was challenged in really important ways and kind of saw, felt more confident in my own capabilities, which drove me to try to write later on.

Zibby: Interesting. 

Taylor: And I also when I was living in New York practicing law, I was doing a lot of financial stuff.

And so at the time I really felt like I needed a creative outlet. And so that's when I started writing The Lifestyle. 

Zibby: Oh, yeah. So you lived in New York before and now you live in LA. Is that right? Or no? 

Taylor: Yes. Yes. 

Zibby: Okay. And what are your views on the two? 

Taylor: Oh, I know. 

Sensitive subjects. 

Zibby: It's okay. 

Taylor: I miss New York so much.

I spent my 20s there and I feel like it just became a formative part of my identity. You know, like leaving New York felt like leaving the person who I was behind. And now I've lived in L. A. for five years and I'm still getting to know it. 

Zibby: Okay. Yeah. What, what made you move in the first place? 

Taylor: Well, I think getting out of New York City felt like a long term necessity.

It's just a hard place to live. Do you live in New York or you live in both? 

Zibby: I mostly live in New York City, but I wish I spent more time in L. A., but I like going back and forth. I like them. I love them. 

Taylor: Yeah. Yeah. I think it just felt long term, not that practical to stay there. And so our firm, my firm had an office in L. A. and I'm from the West Coast, so we thought we'd give it a shot. 

Zibby: Nice. Nice. Yeah. So didn't you say that your, your mom died in, in February of 2022, your book came out just a couple of months later. 

Taylor: Yeah. Yeah. 

Zibby: And how did you deal with that? 

Taylor: It was a really incredible time of just the highest highs and the lowest lows.

Because in addition to that, I found out that I was pregnant six weeks after my mom died. 

Zibby: Oh. 

Taylor: So it was, it was just, it was so. Indescribable, really, like having to grapple with the worst emotions and also having my dreams come true because I'd been trying to get pregnant for five years and had been going through IVF and so I was actually in the process when she died and so I had to make the decision.

Am I going to just call this off because this is just too much for me right now. Or keep going and I kept going and it was the first time that I'd ever gotten pregnant before and so it was like, you know, part of me felt like my mom was kind of shining down on me in that way and it was devastating though to have then have that news and just not be able to call her.

It was impossible to feel that much joy and that much grief at the same time, but I think this is kind of evident in the book as well that I, I do feel like I've come to the conclusion that life is about, is about holding all the pain and all the joy at the same time and being able to feel both things at once and know that both of them are valid, you know, at the same time that you can feel That much pain and that much joy together.

Zibby: Oh. 

Taylor: And then my book came out and I, I, I'm from Phoenix and that's where she lived and we had this big event and to not have her there was unbelievable. So I, I invited all of her friends. So that was really fun. They all came out to support. I guess. Are you working on a new book now? I am, but I'm also trying to enjoy the process of this one coming out.

I feel like there's this kind of incentive as an author to just think, like, I have to keep writing. What am I going to do next? What's my next book? And I started to do that, and I'm trying to write something that is Again, I feel like all my books are going to be different. This one is more of a, like a political romantic drama.

Like I told my agent, it's going to be like scandal. Um, so I'm excited about it, but I'm also trying to not rush it. I really just want to enjoy this time of A Home for the Holidays coming out. 

Zibby: Good for you. 

Taylor: Yeah. 

Zibby: Do you have plans? I know this is like a hundred years away. I mean, not really, but several months.

Have you thought about your plans for the holidays or how you're gonna get through them? Is that a happy time or a sad time or?

Taylor: I think it's a very happy time now that I have my baby because it's just so fun to celebrate with her and she doesn't really get it yet, but I'm excited for her to start to enjoy that process.

Zibby: That'll be great. Well, congratulations. Yeah. You're baby. 

Taylor: Thank you. 

Zibby: We have a lot going on. It's awesome. Yeah. Um, in your spare time, what do you like to read? 

Taylor: Oh my gosh. Well, I'm about to start sandwiched by Catherine Newman, who I've fallen in love with her because of all of her amazing articles on cup of Joe use with Joanna Goddard.

So I'm really excited about that. The last book I read was One Star Romance by Laura Hankin. 

Zibby: Yep. 

Taylor: So, I love, I mean, you mentioned earlier, like, escapism. I do love that. I love a thoughtful escape. I would say that's probably my jam. 

Zibby: I love that. A thoughtful escape. 

Yeah. I mean, I'm glad for the retreats that we do.

Taylor: Ooh, yeah. 

Zibby: Thoughtful escape. 

Taylor: I love that. Yeah. 

Zibby: I don't know. We'll see. Amazing. Well, what's the thing you're most looking forward to about this book coming out? 

Taylor: I think having it resonate with other people is amazing. Because as I was writing it, if I'm pouring my heart onto the page, The whole time I'm thinking, does anybody care about this, you know, or is this just what I went through personally, but hearing you say that it affected you or in hearing anyone say that it resonated with them in any way, or inspired some kind of emotions that just makes me feel.

Like so much less alone, you know, so I'm really happy about that. 

Zibby: It is impossible to read without feeling emotions. This book, honestly, you take us right there. You're right. I mean, it's, it's very moving. It's very moving. 

Taylor: Oh, thank you. I'm so glad you feel that way. 

Zibby: Well, thank you, Taylor. This was really fun.

Thank you. Fun, I don't know if fun is the wrong word, but it was really, I don't know, great. I don't know. I had a great time, even though we talked about hard things. 

Taylor: Yeah. 

Zibby: So, thank you for, um, for the holidays and congratulations and I'll be following along. Can't wait. 

Taylor: Thank you. Thanks for having me. And great to meet you.

Zibby: Great to meet you too. 

Taylor: Bye. 

Zibby: See you in LA. 

Taylor: Bye. 

Zibby: Bye bye.