Emmy Award-winning television host, veteran journalist, and bestselling author Tamron Hall returns to the podcast to discuss her delightful children’s book, HARLEM HONEY: The Adventure of a Curious Kid. Inspired by Tamron’s real-life son and his adventure visiting Harlem’s most iconic spots, the book’s protagonist navigates a bustling new neighborhood. Zibby and Tamron discuss the themes of patience, presence, curiosity, and the power of slowing down and appreciating first-time experiences.

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome back, Tamron.

Thank you so much for coming on to now talk about your children's book, Harlem Honey. Congratulations. 

Tamron: I feel like we see each other a lot, so that's a good thing. I always want to talk with you and see you and I always want to talk about the things I love the most. So it's a perfect day for me to be here with you and talking about a new book that I have.

Zibby: It's so exciting. 

Tamron: Bring me great luck. You bring me great luck. 

Zibby: You were also so nice to me to bring me into the TAMFAM and have me on your show for Blank. That was so nice. Oh my gosh. 

Tamron: It was fun having you on. Anytime that we can talk about, great authors, great books and include, selfishly, even my own in the mix.

It's an honor. 

Zibby: Of course. Oh my gosh. Of course. Okay. Harlem, honey, you introduce us to this adorable character, Moses, as he introduces us to all of the Harlem hot spots as a way to get acclimated to a new environment and find a new sense of home. Why this book? Tell everybody about what it's really about, why you wrote it, all of that stuff.

Tamron: Yeah. I think since we've gotten to know each other, that I am a mom to a very rambunctious, now 5-year-old. Five and a half to be more specific. And this book was inspired by my journey with Moses after the world reopened following the pandemic. And I discovered that I had a much shyer child than I realized.

At home, Moses is very outgoing and very outspoken and just, probably a mini talk show host in the making. But when we would go out after really living his life with just you know, dad, mom, grandmom and grandparents, very smaller, much smaller world than we ever imagined. He presented very different than what we saw at home.

He was a lot more shy I think caution is healthy, but he was a bit more cautious than I expected, and we would go home, Zibby, and he would talk all about what we saw. And so I realized he was taking it in, but he wasn't comfortable enough to share it at that time. So we started talking a lot more about, you can feel safe in new places.

You can feel safe around new people. And our first home happened to be Harlem, which is where the story starts. But in truth, it's a feeling that we all can identify with. Even, the youngest to the oldest among us, walking into a new place and being feeling so different than you do at home or when you're around friends and what can come from curiosity.

Zibby: Oh, I love that. That's great. It also, you have such a, an interesting way of showing that when you come. with something to offer. Moses has this jar of honey and he just wants to share. He's so proud. And so he, he starts every interaction with Oh my gosh, like you have to try this vibe and how that is such a different starting point than many others, right?

When you come with a place of graciousness like that. 

Tamron: And that's exactly it. Thank you for picking up on that because oftentimes the icebreaker. People ask me all the time, What do you do when you go to a party? Like, how do you break the ice? And for this little first grader, he doesn't have a resume of accomplishments, right?

He doesn't have all of these things that he has to bring that an adult would in a conversation. But he has this honey. which was gifted to him from a neighbor. So it's the beginning of, first of all, learning that kindness can come from a stranger, right? And he learns that from Miss Louise and her granddaughter who live across the street, and then he's able to share that experience that he takes from neighbors, this warmth, and travel around his new neighborhood. He's from Texas. That's my child. That's me thinking of myself. Even though I moved to New York at age 38, I felt like a kid, right? I, I, the Empire State Building, the busyness at 38. And I came from a major city, right? I came from Chicago to New York. But I wanted to bring that sensory overload, for lack of a better description, that even I felt, as a seasoned journalist, into this little character, and soften those edges with something I discovered as a mom, and I'm sure, your listeners and you will understand this, okay hurry, let's get out the door, hurry, put your socks on. Oh, gosh, they're rushing past things that they've seen for the very first time because we are in such a rush. And it's not a punishment. It's a pleasure to have experienced a great life, but we forget it's the first time they saw a taxi. It's the first time they saw an airport. We want them to get on the plane and shh, be quiet. Oh my gosh, because I don't want the people in the seat behind me to think that I've got the noisy kid. It's the first time this kid's been on a plane. This is the first time this kid has walked into a birthday party. This is the first time they've walked into church or any new environment. This is the first time they've walked into a relative's house.

So they're going to look around and they might be a little shy, they might stand behind you, but it's not a bad thing. It's an opportunity, at least I've found with Moses, to share a very valuable lesson that what's on the other side of that fear. 

What can you gain on the other side of fear? And that's what he's experiencing.

Fear and caution, but what's on the other side when we are able to safely explore that, whether you're a child or a grownup. 

Zibby: That's so nice. I love that. I actually, I interviewed somebody else about a book called Mothers and Other Fictional Characters. And she literally had a passage that I read out loud that is saying the same type of thing.

That sometimes our biggest weaknesses as moms can be that we rush our kids past things because we're so busy trying to do everything on the list and get them to this class and get them to that class. And why do we not just sit there and look at bugs crawling off a stick or something like that?

Tamron: I love that too. And I'll tell you one of the things and going back to why the book is set in Harlem and I want people to recognize that Harlem just represents his neighborhood. This is any neighborhood in the world. And for me, vividly, Zibby, I remember my son just started there. walking, but, confidently.

So he's, two and a half, almost three, whatever, at the time. And he was also learning numbers. And we were walking around our neighborhood, and he was I think the right word will be, weirdly enough, enamored with the fact that every house had its own address. So he's walking, and he's one, two, five, one, two, seven, he's and it's, remarkable, something we take for granted.

Hey, Zippy, what's your address? I'm on my way. This kid discovering that every home has an address. And he was in awe, and he's pointing at this address, and he's saying, but mom, they have their address on their door, too. Something so minor, something so easy to take for granted. We write our address down every day, put it on something, and, log in on your account, verify this credit, whatever it is.

For this kid, it was the most impressive thing in the world, that every home had a number to identify. And I thought, I gotta slow down. I gotta slow down. I've gotta soak it in. And through his curiosity, at that time, and even now, I've learned the joy of motherhood in this weird way. And that's why in the beginning, I say, I dedicate the book to curious children and the patient adults who understand why.

Because it is an exercise in patience. It's not that we're doing anything wrong, but it is a reminder of patience and being present, which are two things I commonly, I hear as a common thread when I talk to moms, dads, any adult in a child's life, it's being present and patient and how, what a gift they've given us as a reminder of what's important. And 

Zibby: I feel like I've done everything wrong. 

Tamron: No. But that's the thing. We all do it, right? Listen I'm here talking about the book and this morning I'm like, you gotta get out the door, and I try to it's a It's an ongoing goal.

It's not a finish line, right? It's not anything we're doing wrong. And I say this as the whole expert of one child, only five, but I have the great pleasure of doing 170 shows each season of the Tamron Hall show. And with that, comes great conversations with many of our shows. So if you do 170 shows, each show averages four guests.

I don't even do math, but that's a lot of people that I've had the great honor of coming in contact with. And if I have a blessing or a gift to contribute, it is that I'm able to share other people's stories, not mine, other people's stories and through the lens of other people, through the lens of curiosity, I have my own adventure.

And that's what I'm able to share with this. And that's why it was important. The subtitle was the adventure of a curious kid, because I think the most attractive trait in a partner, I think the most attractive thing about a friend and when I say attractive, that's what attracts me to people. 

I'm attracted to curious people, and that doesn't mean curiosity in the sense of what is Einstein's theory of relative?

No. Hey, where are you from? Be curious about others. And so curiosity for me starts in small ways and not necessarily these big ways that we assume get us in the room or help us network or help us get what we want from someone else. It's really the connection. And with Harlem Honey, his curiosity and the curiosity for children it starts in the home and then it goes to your neighborhood and then it reaches out to hopefully the life that we are shepherding our children to experience and we do shepherd them at some point. Yes, they leave their own destiny and their version of what they want, hopefully, but at the beginning of it, it's us shepherding them to something.

And so with Harlem Honey, he is now Harlem. opening up the door to his neighborhood, and he sees that things, that new places and new faces can be inviting. And there's a so much to learn from that. 

Zibby: So were you the shy, curious type as a kid? What were you like at Moses age?

Tamron: I was extremely shy until I was about in the first or second grade.

And people are, and I still, and I don't say that as that celebrity Oh, shucks, I'm still shy now. I really am. I think people know that. And we've talked about it on the show. And even when my friends have come on the Tamar Hall show and we do, they, they talk about I think I have a friend that calls me a social loner and, many of my fond memories.

I laughed the other day because my son is an only child and I am eight years older than my younger brother, and playing Monopoly Solo is an imprint of childhood I'll never forget. And the other day my son was playing Chutes and Ladders alone, and I could hear him talking out the characters, and I was like, oh my gosh, that is my childhood right before my eyes, this kid playing Chutes and Ladders by himself.

But yeah I was very shy. I'm fortunate to have a mom who was an educator and really helped me find my confidence academically to speak up and answer questions. But she also did not try to reverse my natural personality. And that's the balance, right? You want all kids are not going to be the first in the room.

All kids are not going to be the kid who steals the show at the birthday party and is dancing in the middle, or is the little show stopper that's not the case. And with my son, he has grown into his confidence in a very age appropriate way. But there are days where he is super shy and I'm like get out there with your peers, and he's no, I don't want to go.

I'm not ready. I'm not ready but we've tried to arm him with the language of how to express when you are ready and when you when and express to him in an age appropriate way of what confidence looks like and how fun things can be on the other side. But yeah, absolutely to the core of your question, I was, and I found my voice in playing the clarinet.

Fun fact. I ran track. I ran track. My parents put me in activities that inspired me to come out of that shell. 

Zibby: What were your track events? 

Tamron: The 100, the 200, and the 400 meter relay. 

Zibby: Oh wow, look at you, all of them. 

Tamron: No, not look at me now, look at me then. 

Zibby: I know. I did track for two years and I did the hundred meter and a hundred meter relay.

Anyway,.. 

Tamron: I grew up in, I grew up in Texas, like the character in Harlem Honey, he moves from Texas to here. I grew up in Texas, which is a track state. Some of the best sprinters in the world best athletes, honestly in track and field from Texas. And I ran from age 5th grade, age 5 years old, until I went to college.

And my best friend, yeah, my best friend, we met, she was the first person to ever beat me when I was like, first or second grade, and we became great friends. And she now is a track coach in Texas with, and then a mom of three. We've been best friends since we were like, 5 or 6 years old. But yeah, no I think that finding the things that, that a child can connect with, we know emboldens them in a positive way, gives them a voice.

And with Harlem Honey, he's exploring his neighborhood. He's got this little jar of honey and along the way he is encountering, people and places that give him confidence, that give him the ability to see joy. And that is something that is inspiring and I love that, when I created the character.

And he has a best friend that rolls around with him and hangs out with him, which was important that he had a strong empowered female protagonist with him. He's got his bird and his dog. . Based on our real animals in our life. I grew up with pets and I've had pets my entire life and Moses getting his first dog was a really big deal for me as a parent to share that natural love of pets and animals, particularly dogs and bird, which is an odd combination for another day, but that's his, I know we have the bird and the dog in the house, but it was also a chance for me to offer something to the literary world that I felt not that was missing because, there's so many great writers and great parent books and great viewpoints.

I did want my lead character to be this child who identifies as a boy because I found that as a woman, so much of who I am and why I feel so empowered today is because of writers like Judy Blume and even current books that really talk to girls and young girls about being strong and confident.

I remember the first time the character Brave came out with Disney and I took my niece Gianna brave. No one, she's not waiting on any guy to save her. This whole, the prince swooping in and saving you was nonsense. And we've gotten away from that and I'm happy that I am able to celebrate female writers who bring that point of view and that message to young girls.

And I wanted to contribute something for boy moms and who and I've talked to many now, about wanting boys to not feel that they are scary, that they cannot show fear, that they can't balance the need to be gentle with also being empowered because I do want a little boy who feels empowered, but also at the same time, express to him the need for him to share understanding and love.

So that was important. 

Zibby: You had so many different goals, and yet you got them all in. 

Tamron: In 40 pages! Because that was important. Let me tell you the other thing. I, there are some nights my son's okay, let's, he grabs a book and I'm like, please don't grab the one that's really long. And you can't. And so I said, okay, 40 pages. That's a sweet spot. That's long enough to connect a story, but also short enough that bedtime is not turned into some long thing. So it was good and I wanted it to be light that you could carry it around and, when you're going to visit friends or family, okay, I've got a book we're going to read.

So it, I was very intentional about the page count with this. 

Zibby: So then how did you go about writing it? You had all these goals, you knew the general story. Was it easy? Hard? How did you do it? 

Tamron: It was easy because everything I do comes from an authentic space, and I fight the urge to, in any way, shape, or form, be motivated by a measure of success that is through the lens of money, that is through the lens of getting my name out there, that is through the lens of an extra line in my Wikipedia. Nothing that I create is from that space. I truly, in my heart, created my crime series based on my experience as a reporter. My cookbook was created after my father passed away, and I wanted to learn to appreciate this gift that he'd given me and that I could give to myself and my family and become confident in the kitchen.

And this book, when I brought my son home, I never imagined that he would be this shy character. There are many things on the list that you're, thinking of and what you might have to address. The global pandemic happened, and his world, like all of ours, became really small. And then when it reopened, I saw someone very different who I wanted to rush in and save, but I recognized that wasn't my, that's not the role I'm supposed to play.

I'm not his savior. I'm his protector, but I'm not his savior. He has to learn to save himself. And how he does that is through me offering stories and experience at his level of understanding and with Harlem Honey, that became the, I don't know the guiding light. Because I know I wasn't alone.

And talking about new places and new faces and adventure and curiosity, it was just natural and the pages flowed. And we really did live across the street in Harlem from a family who had honey. This is a true story. True story. So that part is real. They had a honey hive on their roof and they would give out little honey jars and yeah, true story.

Absolutely true story. And everything and all of the adventures were places that were in our neighborhood that I frequented. 

Zibby: Wow. Was it hard narrowing it down to which places to go? 

Tamron: Oh, yes. You're the first person to ask. Yes, it was hard. I knew Apollo. The Apollo was easy because it's iconic. I love all of these amazing soul food restaurants in Harlem.

Melba's, Amy Ruth's and so I picked Sylvia's because it's the longest and the most iconic in the sense of it's been there the longest. And so that was interesting. Studio Museum, I felt like, was a is a gem in Harlem that people don't realize exists there. And I do want this series to continue.

And I would like for the character to travel to other places and neighborhoods. I do, there are a lot of books that focus on the states and the big cities. I think neighborhoods, look at the wildfires, for example, in Los Angeles, everyone's talking about Altadena, this historic neighborhood that we didn't know anything about.

And now people are, not only focused on helping the families who were devastated by the Los Angeles wildfires, but we've learned much more about these communities and these neighborhoods. And so for me, I thought of a Dora the Explorer inspired character, though, who happens to be a little boy, but also rather than a world of fantasy, he's focused on neighborhoods, real neighborhoods.

I said to my friend, I felt so accomplished when I was finally able to afford a ticket, me and my girlfriends went to Italy. I think it was in my twenties, it was a great trip. But over time, now that I'm 54, I recognize that, we forget how beautiful this country is. How many neighborhoods are just unexplored and offer endless possibilities to teach our children about others?

Zibby: So what's your next neighborhood? 

Tamron: That's interesting. I'm partial to Texas, which is where he's from and so I'm from originally hill country. We have some of the most beautiful rivers and whitewater rafting some of the most adventurous terrain is in Texas and so I may have him go to Hill Country on a white rider, like an adventure with his family.

That's next. I'd love to take him to New Mexico. There's a beautiful, this is going to sound strange, he's not going to go to a bed and breakfast, but years ago my cousin took her mom to this beautiful, it was a church that was turned into a beautiful bed and breakfast, but it was rich culturally.

And I thought, yeah, maybe New Mexico after that. I have a list, but I think Texas and Hill Country is next because I can imagine the Harlem Honey and his mother trying to decide if they're going to go on a little river ride through a part of Texas that people don't know exists.

They think barbecue, cattle, Dallas, and they don't know about the richness of the terrain, especially in South Texas. 

Zibby: And not that you're not doing enough already with your show and Harlem Honey and everything else. But do you have another adult novel in the works? 

Tamron: Right now I am focused on a mini memoir. And I've not told anyone this, but since you've been there from day one, I said along the way, I'm not ready to write my life out in that way. But over the past five years, Zibby, I've learned so much about community and the value of betting on yourself when you have a community behind you. I was 48 years old when I had my first child. I just lost my job. There's so many things I learned in this. short six years from 2016 17 until now that I want to share. And so I'm working on what I call a mini memoir about the moment I received the text message, and it was a text message that I would no longer be at my old job, to pitching myself, knowing my value at 48 years old and fired, right? And all of these things that came along the way and what I've learned. So it really is a little guide with anecdotes about, the value of betting on yourself when you have the right community supporting you. 

Zibby: Oh my gosh. I love it. That'll be great. 

Tamron: Thank you. 

Zibby: You can come back and talk about that.

I can't wait to read that. 

Tamron: I would love that. I would love that. 

Zibby: Very inspirational. Tamron, thank you so much for coming on. I loved Harlem Money. This will be a huge success, no doubt. And just listening to you, you have such a wise, soulful air about you. Just so much. Yeah, just, you just know who you are, and that's really refreshing.

So thank you. 

Tamron: Listen, it's, I'm a work in progress like us all, and this book is an opportunity to share that reminder that we are all, every day, trying to, I believe, show up as our authentic self and that applies to our children and it's and we talked so much about teaching kids emotional growth and we say things like, it's okay to cry.

We no longer say big kids don't cry we've adjusted our and evolved in our language as it relates to tears and I think this book I hope this book gives us an opportunity to evolve in how we talk about fear with kids. And that it is something you don't run from, you talk about, and on the other side of that is a great adventure.

Zibby: There you go. Amazing. 

Tamron: Thank you, Zibby. 

Zibby: Congratulations. Thank you. 

Tamron: All right. Be well. Bye. 

Zibby: Okay, you too. Bye.