The View cohost and three-time Emmy Award winner Sunny Hostin returns to the podcast—this time to discuss SUMMER ON HIGHLAND BEACH, the third novel in her New York Times bestselling Summer Beach series. Sunny reveals how she makes time to write, which she balances with her morning talk show and a busy family life. Then, she delves into the novel, describing the tense family drama, the themes of self-discovery and self-worth, and the tension between honoring our legacies and finding our own way in the world. Finally, Sunny teases an upcoming project… and it involves witches.

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome back on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. 

Sunny: Thank you. You know I love you. 

Zibby: This is what? Third time? You got a second? Stop writing books. This is like too much, too fast. . 

Sunny: I was gonna say, I have all my books in front of me and I just.

Zibby: Oh my gosh.

And they look so good. 

Sunny: Third one. Third one. 

Zibby: Wow. That's so crazy. I feel like I was just talking about the first one, you're like, I think they're gonna be more, and now all of a sudden, here's the pile. So. 

Sunny: I know. I know. 

Zibby: So great. Good. I don't know how. But how are you getting all this done? I want to hear, I want you to talk about more about the book.

But, but you're on The View. You're doing all these things. You've had three, best selling books. I mean, this is crazy. When are you, when are you doing everything? 

Sunny: Really crazy. I have to tell you, I'm kind of a little shocked myself. But I work late into the evening. I'm actually a night owl by nature, whereas everyone else in my family seem to be like morning birds.

Um, so I just wait until everyone goes to sleep and they usually are in bed no later than like nine o'clock, ten o'clock, and then I am up. Uh, that's sort of the sweet spot for me. So I start writing probably around ten. I try to be done by midnight. I just keep myself on a schedule Monday through Friday.

And I get done what I can get done because I get up pretty early for the show. And then on the weekends, you know, Sunday is kind of a family day where we dinner together, we go to church together. But Saturdays I put in a couple of hours. And for some reason, that formula really works for me. I can just zone in, either have a cup of tea or a glass of wine, and I'm just off.

And it's, It's gotten easier and easier, believe it or not, once you, once you find your process. And especially for me, because I love these characters now and they're real people in my mind. I just know what they're going to say. I know, I know what situations, in what situations, you know, the way they will react.

And so it's, it's gotten easier, believe it or not. 

Zibby: But then, like, when do you do all your emails? 

Sunny: That is a great question because right before getting on with you, I looked down at my, uh, phone because I was writing something and I had 258 emails and I felt like passing out. I felt very sick because I figured those are the ones that didn't even make my spam box.

So I probably have to at least look at them. So I've gotten into the habit of basically checking my emails every hour. Which sounds kind of like, I don't know, kind of weird, but it's, it's the only way I can from being overwhelmed by, you know, by the, by the emails and just all the communications and, and I kind of have to try to keep my social battery a little, a little more charged that way.

Zibby: Wow. Well. Yeah, the email struggle is real. I feel like if it ever gets to 500, I like have a total panic attack and I like clear the decks and I'm like, I'm going to sit here until I, you know, then I alphabetize and I sort like A through Z and I start at A and I'm like, I'm going to get through D. And then I, and I'm like, this is too depressing.

I'm going to go from Z up and then I sit. Oh my gosh. No, there seems to be no answer to, to that. There's just no answer. You just have to plow through. But I guess. 

Sunny: Yeah, you plow through this, this work life balancing, you know, I think people just, you just prioritize, prioritize and you do the best that you can, right?

Like that's what I do. I just do the best that I can. And if I didn't make it through all 258, you know, I just, I'll, I'll get back to it again. And that's, that's, um, my family and my writing and, and my show, it's just. You know, requires a lot of attention and, and I, I, I try to be present in all the spaces and an email drops here and there.

It's okay. 

Zibby: Yeah. 

Sunny: I always tell moms that it's okay. We do the best we can. 

Zibby: I know. It's just the wrong email dropping. I think that's what I'm always afraid of. It's like the one thing from the school or the one thing like, well, you know, then I'm like, Oh my gosh, I missed whatever. So yeah. 

Sunny: Oh yes. Oh yes. That has happened.

Zibby: Yeah. I know. As my mom would say, but the beat goes on, you know.

Okay, so you're writing late at night, which is when my brain is completely fried and I can barely see straight, which is beyond impressive to me as a morning person. Okay. Okay. So. Olivia has another act in this, in this version. We learn all about her grandmother and Christine and more about her dad and her family and land and all of it.

It is so exciting to dig deep. Tell me about this plot line, where it came from and the historical context behind it. 

Sunny: Sure. You know, it was, it came from the readers and, and that's What's been such an incredible journey for, for me, maybe, you know, when I first wrote the first book, I just, I wrote it because I wanted to read it.

I was just like, there's nothing like this out there. It's going to be this, you know, sort of elevated beach read where you could have a glass of rosé and sit on the beach and put your beach hat on and just get away. That was sort of why I wrote it. And then it became, you know, became this New York times bestseller and it became this And people were actually visiting Oak Bluffs with, with t shirts with the book cover printed on them and walking around and they found the house that's on the cover and they're like knocking on the door. I mean, it just took on a life of itself. And what was great about it though, is that people started actually reaching out to me on my website and they started, you know, reaching out to me in all sorts of ways and they wanted to know more about Olivia.

And so I was able to get this instant feedback, like, well, What about Olivia? What about Olivia? And I thought she's a keeper, right? Like, well, people want to know more about her. I actually thought people would want to know more about Amman Carter. People, you know, would want to know more about Billy and Dulce or people would want to know about Perry and Damon.

But no, people really felt that Olivia's story had some some things that really needed to be discovered and that she herself needed to go on a journey of self discovery and self care, very important. And I just, I wrote the second book and the same feedback came back. People really fell in love with this character.

And, you know, I, I thought, I need to sort of give her her flowers here and, and let's dig deep. And in terms of history, you know, we, we, we know from the first two books, for those that haven't read it, I don't want to spoil everything, but Olivia has had, you know, daddy issues, which a lot of people do have.

And she was fortunate enough to really have a very loving father and a very loving godfather. So she had these incredible male figures in her life, but really a lot of trouble with. Romantic relationships. And as it turns out, you know, she learns in this third book that she has a family that she knew nothing about, right?

And it's a family grounded in history because I love historical fiction. And I knew right away that I was at the beginning of this trilogy that I was going to write about Highland Beach because I lived in Maryland for 10 years and I had visited Highland Beach and I knew that so many people didn't know that Frederick Douglass sort of at the height of his advocacy and he's called, you orders of our time, I think, uh, you know, in, in, in generations, in, in, in the, in our country, at least, and perhaps in the world, that he had this summer home, at this summer place where he could rest.

And, uh, it sort of sheltered him from the very, the, the very difficult racism that he was facing and the very difficult work that he was trying to do to make our, union, a more perfect union, right? And so he has this, this, this place that he would visit, and not only would he visit, Paul Dunbar would visit, and W.B. Du Bois would visit, and it's just this rich history about Frederick Douglass that no one knew about. I think the residents of Highland Beach like to keep it that way, actually, perhaps why no one knows about it. They've made that a little bit clear to me, you know, they want us to, to to remain a small community, a safe community, a community rich with history.

There is a Frederick Douglass Museum there that is open to the public sometimes. Uh, it has very, you know, strict hours, but I decided that I wanted to teach people about this magical place because I've stayed there many times and it's very magical. And I wanted people to, you know, to explore along with Olivia because she learns not only self care, she learns to take care of her mental health, which I think has been stigmatized for so long.

She learned her value and her worth and, and, and she learns. Not only how to love herself, but to love a partner. And I wanted to explore all those issues, especially in the time that we're in now in the country. Um, I wanted to give people a getaway and, and something sweet, which I think it is. But of course it's complicated because my books are generally a little complicated.

And they're, but they're all bound in family, place. 

Zibby: So how, when you're writing and you're doing more inspired by historical narratives and all of that, how close to the truth do you feel you have to, like, how close to the line do you toe? Like, are there really 46 families in the community? Do you know what, like, are there?

Sunny: Yeah, I stay pretty close to it. 

Zibby: You do? Okay. 

Sunny: I do. I do. You know, I work with a researcher. I bring someone along with me whenever I visit. I have that person. If people don't want anything audio taped, I have them taking copious notes so that I can ask the questions and receive things. I've learned a lot about Otterpilot, which is sort of your personal assistant online.

So if I'm zooming with someone, I have Otterpilot taking notes. My son. Uh, my college son, college age son taught me that. It's a wonderful, wonderful trick. 

Zibby: You know, every time people, when it shows Autopilot would like to record, I'm like, no, don't record. I always say no. 

Sunny: I love it because it's, it's my way of being able to be more present and not having to write things down and take notes.

I can actually take it in. And so I do, I do a lot of research. I think it's, it's, it's right to get it right. I will say that, This community in particular wants to remain pretty private. And so I assured them that I would be respectful of that wish. So I, this book, I think while it is based in even more history than the other two books, I did try to change a little bit of the fabric of the community really to protect it because it's quite a gem.

The mayor wanted it to be protected. Did I mean, If you think about Highland Beach, this is the place not far from Annapolis, uh, Maryland, which is, you know, sort of the capital there and it's beautiful place. Everybody knows about Annapolis. They know about Washington, D. C. They know, you know, about Baltimore.

They don't know about Highland Beach, and it's intentional. There are no Airbnbs there. There are no restaurants there. You can't really. 

Zibby: So did, did you not stay overnight? 

Sunny: I, I did because My friend lives there. So I got kind of lucky. That's how I found out about it. My friend Erica lives there and has had a home there.

It's a family home, so she's summered there forever. And I didn't even realize before I started really, really doing the research. For this book that they don't rent their homes out, they don't, they sell to people that they know, they sell to people that they know will take care of the community and, and really what really happens is they pass it down generationally, which is something that is pretty special, especially when you're talking about a historically black beach community, you know, there is this federal designation HBBC, or kind of like HBCU, right?

Historically Black Colleges and Universities. There are HBBCs, and they have really maintained this incredible hamlet, almost, of excellence and community, notwithstanding, people's trying to sort of go in and break it up. It's remained within a certain group of families for a really long time. 

Zibby: So it sounds like there will be no t shirts for this community.

Sunny: I do not think they are going to want the t shirts. I mean, it's interesting because when Summer on the Bluffs came out, I had no idea it would, that would happen. And, you know, it sold like 25, 000 copies the first week. And that summer I'm told, you know, Commerce and visitors and travel, things went up like 200%.

I had no idea that would happen. Somewhere on Sag Harbor, we had a little bit of an idea that would happen, and it happened. there again, but it's in the Hamptons. And so if you're not staying in Sag Harbor, you can stay in other places. Um, it did drive up property values, which for me, I'm, I'm grateful that it helped the community.

But, um, Highland Beach is, is a different kind of place. I don't think that's going to happen and that's intentional. They want to keep it the jewel that it is and that's fine. 

Zibby: Wow. Well, some of the, the themes that run through the story, I feel like are powerful and universal, one of which is rejection. And what happens when someone you love is not, doesn't want you, whether it's a grandmother who says like, I don't want you to be born or like, is that intentional or does it come out when you're writing?

And what are your views on, on overcoming rejection? 

Sunny: Yeah, it's intentional. You know, I am mother of, uh, Gen Zers, and I've watched them navigate middle school, which is awful. I watched them navigate high school. I'm watching one now navigate college and sports and, and really, you know, failure. I've often thought I've learned more from my failures than I have from my successes.

If you can pick yourself up and dust yourself off when rejected or when you, when you fail, it makes you stronger. I think, but a lot of that also has to do with knowing your value and knowing your self worth. And so it is something that I intentionally. Explored. I especially for women, quite frankly, because I grew up, you know, the daughter of a really feisty, strong woman who's like, you know, you, you got to be able to make it on your own, even though, you know, she was happily married to my dad.

It was just. Make your own way, make your own life. You know, no one is, no one does a better you than you do. And so I was filled with all these wonderful, I guess, almost isms, you know, like you, you are just terrific. And I saw that my children had that because I instilled that in them, but I saw so many of their friends struggling.

I've seen so many of my friends struggle. I've seen so many marriages break up. You know, I've been married 25 years, divorces. 50 percent of the population. I've had 50 percent of my friends get divorced and, and, and, and women in particular in my friend group sort of value themselves through someone else's eyes and especially being in the television business.

I mean, You get rejected all the time. You get rejected daily on social media for sure. And so if you don't have that really strong constitution, it can be crippling. And I, I thought, let me. 

Zibby: Publishing too, by the way, publishing. 

Sunny: Yeah. You could send your book out your manuscript out to a hundred publishers and maybe one thinks.

You're great. I was actually speaking to Stephen King interviewing Stephen King. Everyone rejected him. John Grisham has a similar story. Everyone rejected him and Ellen Hildebrandt. Everyone rejected her, you know, and then but you get that one person that gets you. I got lucky. My first editor, Carrie Farron, got it, got me.

And, and I thought, let me explore what that what that's like. And I, you know, and I also wanted to include therapy. Joy Behar has been really, really good for me in terms of saying, you know, she's not a therapist, of course, but she likes to do psychodrama. And so she'll like to say little mini psychodramas with me after our show sometimes.

And, um, I really went to her quite a bit when I was writing this book to just ask her hypotheticals about, you know, what, what, what would a therapist say here? What does this look like? Would a therapist give you an answer? And she's like, no, you come up with the answer. And so that finds its way. Right into the book.

So I, I, there were all these themes that were just kind of bouncing around in my head from my life, from my friends, but also from the, from the readers. The readers were, you know, really interested in the fact that I had a homosexual couple, a lesbian couple. They were really interested in the fact that I had interracial relationships.

They were really interested in the fact that I had a woman who didn't understand her beauty and her self worth. And those are, I think, themes that we see in every single space, man, uh, every single community. And I, I, I think it's a read for, for anyone really for everyone. It's, it's about a historically black beach community, but, but this, this is a book for everyone.

And it's a book for men too. I'm always shocked that so many men read these books. I'm proud of it. But I, I knew that these are themes that are just, in particular post pandemic, that people really needed to deal with. 

Zibby: Wow. 

It's amazing. 

So if it's a trilogy then, and you've, you know, run through these communities before you get sort of You know, people are like, don't come, we need our privacy.

No, I'm kidding. Where is your writing career going to go from here? 

Sunny: Oh, that's a good question. You know, I'm writing a new series and it's about a witch's coven. Unbeknownst to many, except those that are closest to me, I am a spy. sci fi fantasy fanatic. I'm obsessed with like witches and vampires and UFOs and that kind of thing.

Whoopi Goldberg and I have that in common. We sort of like outer space and things like that and I, I just started writing it. Um, I've got a couple chapters in and my, my book agent absolutely loves it. Although, you know, I'm after this went in, I've been told, do I have Three more, um, about these characters.

And, you know, there are other HBBCs, because readers have told me about 15 of them now, so I have a running list. So, will I continue to write beach reads? I love Ellen Hildebrand. Um, I love Terry McMillan. I kind of think, Yeah, I don't know if this is the end of my career writing B trees because I love that genre so much, but, but the next.

books will take a little bit of a turn. And I think, you know, there'll be some crossover audience, but I think they'll find a place with, with other people as well. And I'm excited about that. 

Zibby: Wow. Well, fantasy, romanticy, like that whole thing is just blowing up right now. So well, I know how much work it takes to have a book a year is essentially what you're doing, right? I mean, that's what I'm doing. 

Sunny: Yeah. 

Zibby: It's a lot. I mean, as soon as you finish the book, it's like the next book. So hats off to you for, I mean, the level of production and all of it. And 

Sunny: thank you. It's really something, you know, I finished writing this book and my agent said, when is the next one?

And I was like, the next one. 

Zibby: Yeah. Give me a minute. 

Sunny: And then lo and behold, I really did start sketching out. Something completely different. And I hope it's as well received as these books, but I'm really excited about about the next trilogy. 

Zibby: Amazing. So exciting. Well, I have to say, I peeked at your social media before we hopped on here quickly and watched your excerpt about the protest.

So we don't have to talk about it. I was just curious about your view of it being an anti war protest and not Israel versus anti. Palestinian or whatever. I understand they're now like hostages and Columbia today. It's like never ending. 

Sunny: Yeah, it is never ending. You know, I, I write historical fiction because I think if we don't look at our past past can become prologue.

Right. And so I am very interested in current events. And I'm a student of history. I took Middle Eastern studies when I was in college. And so it's something that I, that I feel pretty deeply about. You know, I've often spoken about the fact that my grandfather is Jewish. And so I, I've taken an interest in what is happening.

But most importantly, I, I think that, our world is so feels like the world is on fire for me. And I think for a lot of people, and I'd like there to be peace. And that sounds kind of corny and it, it, it, it doesn't sound, you know, thoughtful, but that's, that's what I think. I think that our young people, and I speak to a lot of young people, not only because I'm raising Gen Zers, but because I'm just interested in the lens.

Right. And. It seems to me that that is the lens that they are looking through. They're looking through the fact that they've lived through a pandemic. They're looking through the fact that they are the generation that's going to make less money than their parents. They're looking through the lens of having seen, War.

Mm hmm. Having also seen the first black president, having seen a terrible rise in antisemitism and a terrible rise in racism. And I think that they want peace. I do. And when I look at them protesting, I look back at the Vietnam era. I look back at apartheid, you know, the protests that I participated in, uh, when South Africa was under, you know, this apartheid.

I think about there not being weapons of mass destruction, but we were told there were. And, and so I think that, you know, in many respects, what I, what I have said privately and what I've just recently said publicly was, You know, these students are not only exercising their First Amendment rights to peacefully assemble.

If it's not peaceful, that's another thing, but peacefully assemble. And I hope that people will, will be able to come together and do what we do on The View. Listen to each other. Yes. Is it uncomfortable to listen to? Some things coming your way. Yeah, it, it really is the things, you know, that are uncomfortable.

Yeah, it is. But I think without that, there is no real progress and that there is no real peace. And I, I, I've spoken to a lot of these kids on college campuses, and that's what they're looking for. They're looking for resolution. They're looking for peace. They're looking for humanitarianism. And. You know, they may very well save us from ourselves.

I have a lot of faith in this new generation, faith that I don't think It's shared by everyone, but I, I do have a lot of faith and, and I, I think that the right thing to do since I do it for a living is speak up when you feel strongly about something. And that's, that really is very American in my opinion.

Zibby: I just interviewed Manuel Acho and Noah Tishby today about Exactly that, uncomfortable conversations, and I was saying to them, and the same thing for you on the View, it's like, you are pros, right? Like you are a professional conversation have er. Right? Like you guys have your, and you're articulate, and you're smart, and whatever, and I think Sometimes people want to have those conversations, and they don't necessarily have the skills, they might have the desire, but I'm not sure.

Because it's hard. Yeah, I don't know what, I don't know where we leave, what we, you know, like, what then? You know, like, what if the conversations end up being hurtful? Which, you know, I don't know. 

Sunny: And sometimes they are, and sometimes they're, they're uncomfortable, and sometimes you don't feel great in the space.

But without those conversations, I don't see real progress actually. And, you know, we try to do it every day. And I I've actually been very surprised at the tremendous amount of support that I've received. I've received messages from all around the world. I just got a message from France. Um, um, so people are really watching these, these students.

They're watching what we were doing here in this country. And they're listening, and, and that's all I ask. I listen, I hope other people listen to the different points of view, and, and you come to the conclusion that you come to. But to sort of just be in a bubble or in a silo, and, and not even be open to dialogue is distressing to me.

And I, I, I'm hoping that rather than see Uh, you know, squelching and, and almost the choking of dialogue. I'm hoping that we'll see more people be able to come together and speak and talk. And I, I think that's how you reach real resolution. 

Zibby: Sunny thank you so much for coming back on, thank you for your work and, you know, raising some of these big, important issues and all of that, so. 

Sunny: Thank you so much for having me again. I appreciate it. 

Zibby: All right. Take care. Bye bye.