#1 bestselling author Sophie Kinsella joins Zibby to discuss WHAT DOES IT FEEL LIKE?, an extraordinary, unforgettable novel about a successful novelist who faces a devastating diagnosis and must learn to live and love anew—a story that is rooted in Sophie’s own battle with brain cancer and ensuing memory issues. Sophie opens up about her journey and shares how this book came to be—it involves slowly dictating notes into her phone when she couldn't even write. She talks about fiction as her safe space, her use of humor in the story, the support she’s received from her husband and children, and her personal realization that the little, everyday moments in life are the ones that matter.

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome, Sophie. Thank you so much for coming back on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books to discuss your latest. "What does it feel like?", Thank you. 

Sophie: Thank you for having me. It's, it's lovely to be here to talk about it.

Zibby: Oh my goodness, Sophie, this book, as soon as I read your post on Instagram, where you shared with your community about your brain cancer, which I know you, you've talked about You know, I watched you say, having trouble even saying that from that moment, my heart has like been hurting for you and wondering and wanting to know what everything, just like the book says, what was it like for you?

You know, you have fans everywhere. You've sold what? 40 million copies of your books. Like we all like love you and feel like we know you and that you're going through this. And so when I saw you were coming out with this, even as fiction, I. I was like, Oh my gosh, and voraciously read it up as everybody will do.

Thank you for sharing it. Can you just speak a little bit? I know that you decided to go fiction and that you've had memory issues, understandably after your surgery, but just talk a little bit. Why, how, how did you make this into fiction? And how did you, how did you come back into your words when they were lost?

Sophie: Oh, that's such a good question, because as anybody who reads the book will understand, I had real problems with my memory after I had brain surgery, and I couldn't even tell you what the word for a shirt was. I, I, I, my brain was all muddled up, and it took me a long time. And at that stage, I thought, well, I'll never write again.

I, I had given up on the idea that I could ever write a book again. It took me a long time to recover from that. But all the while I was making notes about what was happening to me. And I didn't even know why I was dictating them. I couldn't write, but I could dictate into my phone. So I would get my phone and I would think, well, that was a weird conversation or that was an extraordinary experience.

And I would talk about it into my phone. I didn't know why. I thought, well, maybe I'll be interested later down the line to look back, or my children will be interested. And it was only much, much later that I realized that I wanted to write about this experience. And as you say, just tell anybody who's interested what it feels like to wake up in hospital, and you've lost your memory.

You can't walk. Then you get given this scary, scary diagnosis and just to kind of put it all down without it being too gloomy or too depressing but still in the style that I like to write which is finding the optimism and finding the humor even when things are tricky. 

Zibby: Wow. Well, the end result, as I'm sure you know, is so exceptional and the way you did it differently this time with these little snapshots and scenes that just are like little arrows thrown in little darts like hurled across the room.

You just get the reader into the moment. You don't actually even need Any more words, right? You just take us right there. Are those some of the scenes that you were, are those the notes that you were keeping and they became scenes in the book? Is that, and is that just how your mind works? Like, Oh, this is, this is gold.

Let me, let me keep it. 

Sophie: Anything that was remarkable, I made a note of. And the style of the book, I think, reflects my mind as I was going through all of this. It came to me in a series of snapshots because I kept losing my memory in between. So when I look back at what happened, it is a series of little vignettes and slice of life.

And then with gaps in between, and that seemed the most natural way for me to tell the book. And I, I didn't want it to be a long memoir about my life, starting from, you know, when I was a baby. And so, because at one stage I did think, should I make this nonfiction? Should this become my autobiography?

Should I write just, you know, a standard issue memoir? But do you know something? I write fiction. I make it up. That's what I do. And I realized that I wasn't happy in telling the truth, partly because I'm really bad with facts. I can't remember facts. I get them wrong and I knew I would get something wrong.

I would get letters and people saying, you didn't, it wasn't that doctor. It wasn't that medicine. It wasn't that day. And I thought I will be happiest in my comfort zone, which is fiction. make it up. It doesn't matter if the details aren't quite, as long as the story is true, the feelings are true, the experience is honest, uh, it doesn't matter if it was a Wednesday, not a Thursday.

And so I just decided to make it the most honest fiction I've ever read. written because it's so close to my life. It's so close to me. 

Zibby: Well, it's so funny. It's almost like, why would we expect Francis Ford Coppola to all of a sudden make a documentary? Do you know what I mean? Like, he's like a brilliant filmmaker and he does what he does.

Like, you do what you do. Like, you just, like, oh, and on top of cancer, would you mind switching genres and learning a whole new way to write? 

Sophie: Exactly, exactly. You do what you do, and I make up stories. I always have. And, uh, I think in this case, it was also really valuable for me to have a way to tell the story, to be on, in control of the story, because I felt so out of control during this whole period.

I woke up in hospital. I had no memory of why I was there. I was handing my life over to medical professionals and having to just listen to them, understand what was going on. But do you know what? In the book, when I was writing fiction, I was in charge. I was back in the driving seat, and I could tell the story as I wanted to tell it.

I could make sense of it. I could create an optimistic narrative. And all of that was really comforting and cathartic. I also was able to make myself laugh. And all the way through, I've tried to laugh whenever I can, because I do think it is the best way Medicine. I really do. 

Zibby: Your humor comes through everything.

I mean, the scene where you're telling your kids over Scrabble and you know, you're prepared as a reader to just like pour tears reading how you had to do this, the most difficult thing. And yet, you guys are all so funny. And all of you are just trading barbs. I mean, it's, it's so real, even though it's fiction.

It's just, it's all so real and so beautiful. 

Sophie: Oh, thank you so much. I'm really glad. I'm, I don't know, I'm just glad if it speaks to anybody because it's such a personal book. It feels like anybody who reads it and understands it understands me. It feels like a very kind of one on one dialogue I'm having with the reader.

Zibby: Oh, well. Everyone will feel that way. It's it's sensational. Why did you wait about a year and a half and maybe part of it is health reasons too, but you have a public, right? You have you the person and you and your family as a mom and a wife and your, you know, your, your intimate life. And then of course you have your legions of fans.

You waited a year and a half to post about it publicly and then were inundated by the love and all of that. so much. What was the tipping point? Why and when did you decide to share it? And do you have any regrets about that? 

Sophie: No, do you know, it was exactly the right time for me. And I think what happened was it took me a long time to recover from the brain surgery, from treatments.

I wasn't in a very strong state. place at all. And I think if you're going to share news, you have to be strong because you're going to get a reaction. We really learned that because my husband was the one who had to tell all our closer friends and people who had spotted me on the street and thought I didn't look very well.

And he, he, he had to tell them all one on one and found it really hard. because they would be so shocked and then that would come bouncing back to him. And I knew that when I told the public that I would get this reaction and I needed to be prepared for it and prepared to engage. And we kept it secret to begin with to protect the children.

Because I didn't want them hearing about it sort of secondhand in the playground. I knew that the news would spread. So, so that was the first reason for keeping it tight. And then I, I dunno, we, it just got into a habit and I, I kept thinking, well, I need to tell everybody, but not being quite ready. And it was only when I just felt I am strong enough to do this now, and I'm strong enough to talk about it and I'm not going to cry, it's going to be fine.

But I felt able to share it. And. As I expected, my readers gave me nothing but love because I have the best readers in the world. I, I have maintained this many times. They are just absolutely lovely, warm, optimistic, and full of good humor. And so I was really bowled over by how kind they were. 

Zibby: I am just one of your legions of fans.

I've been reading from the beginning of the Shopaholic series all the way through. I feel like we've all like grown up with you and grown up together. 

Sophie: Right. 

Zibby: Even though your characters are still sometimes younger than we are, you know, occasionally. We've still all grown up and it's just so beautiful.

One thing I was struck with in the book that I really honestly cannot stop thinking about is how you, you know, decided that you don't want to go off on this bucket list. I mean, there's this narrative that right, you get this sentence and next thing you know, you're like in the Seychelles or something. I don't know.

But you're like, no, I just want to be home with my kids. I want more of this. I want normal plus like, that's what I want. I want like marmalade, marmalade jam, whatever jam you I don't know. Can you just speak more about that? Because isn't that really it? Isn't that the meaning of all of it? It's not like the far flung places we go, and it's just finding more meaning in what we do already.

Sophie: Yes, yes. So that is very much mirrors what happened in my own life. And I think you're right about the narrative. So the narrative is, you know, You get a diagnosis, then you make your bucket list, then you go and meet a celebrity, or you swim with the dolphins, or you trek up a mountain, and these are going to create amazing memories for you and for the people that you're with.

And I found that I just I just resisted that kind of a thing. Everything that my husband would suggest to me, I'd be like, well, no, I don't really want to do that. And I felt like a spoilsport, you know, I need to be putting on my Lycra and climbing up Everest. But really what I wanted to do is just lead my life, but just make it a bit nicer.

And I think we can all just increase our quality of life incrementally with just like a little treat here, a little treat there. And what I've really learned is that you can make your life better by just framing it, by just appreciating it, by just going over the day. Now this is something that we've started to do before we go to bed is we go over the day, partly it has to be said because I have such a shocking memory now, I need to be reminded of what we did, but we go over the day and we say, well, we did this, and we saw this friend, we had this really lovely meal, we went for a walk, and we saw this lovely view, and you, you just turn the day into a series of good moments, and just appreciate it all the more, and I am happy with that, I don't need to be doing the big, grand stuff, you know, give me just a little treat, I mean, one of my day.

treats that I give myself is that I love things that smell lovely. So I'll have like pillow spray or I'll have like a scented body lotion and I'll treat myself to something small that really does impinge on my life but isn't dramatic, doesn't require me to get on a plane. It's just a small pleasure and I've, I really do find this a valuable way to go about it.

Zibby: I feel like that's, that's what all these mindfulness people are trying to tell us, isn't it? Like, find the choice in these, in these moments, pay attention to the beauty, and yet we're so consumed with all the to do lists and everything else that it's easy to miss, and I feel like your book is a big, like, no, no, no, like, don't miss that.

This is what it's all about. 

Sophie: Yeah, I think so. And it took a, I mean, I was exactly the same. And I used to kind of scoff at mindfulness because I remember going to a mindfulness class once and we all had to look at a raisin and kind of try to, try to kind of engage with the raisin. And I didn't really, respond to that.

But I find coming to it through, this is going to sound really corny, but coming to it through gratitude, just being really grateful for the, the lovely thing that you had, whether it's a conversation, a friend, just even being British, a good, good weather day will suffice. You know, it didn't rain. Or, you know, in my case, a lovely cup of tea.

I mean, we, we have now a habit, my husband and I, of turning every single cup of tea we have into like a massive treat. Like, we, we almost play with it. Like, not a cup of tea. Yes, we're going to have a cup of tea. And you know, you can kind of transform your own mood by being a bit silly, but finding the good hearted, good nature in just small things.

Zibby: It's amazing. Your husband, by the way, has become, like, leading man 101 in this, in this whole thing. I was watching, I don't know, you were on some show and people were, you know, fawning over him, like, he's Harrison Ford and all of this. And of course, like, you know, the character in the book, like, the husband is just, like, the most lovable, amazing person.

Like, how does it feel to, like, Bring your own husband into character land and share a love story of your own after all this time. 

Sophie: It's, it's funny. I mean, I've always been really private. I haven't sort of shared my whole life on social media. I've always felt I connect through my words. to, to my readers.

When I told this book, I just thought as I wrote this book, I just thought I want to be honest. I want to just tell it like it is. So I will have to tell you that that pretty much is my husband. I mean, anybody who reads this book now knows me, my husband, my children, my sense of humor, my everything, because it's all, it's all in the book.

And it's all pretty much true. He, we did, we did walk in the streets. I did try to learn Christmas carols again, this is all scenes from the book, and he did sleep on the floor next to my hospital bed. 

Zibby: Well, he's like mensch extraordinaire, honestly. 

Sophie: Oh, that is high praise! 

Zibby: You know, the other through line of the story, of course, is you as a mom and as a mom myself and as so many other people, you know, our, our first instinct is always to protect the kids and make sure they're okay.

And, and yet when something like this happens, you feel, you must feel so powerless and I know you wrote about it. So I feel like I, you know, I get a glimpse, but. What can you do when you won't when you can't do anything or when you're.. 

Sophie: It's in.. 

Zibby: Talk about that. 

Sophie: It's just horrible. It's just horrible. I felt so guilty. Well when I was told the news I didn't feel bad, you know for myself.

I Felt like what have I done to my children and Even now I know that this is not my fault But and this is in the book as well you start to realize that you can feel guilty for having had bad luck because You had children and you were supposed to protect them. You were supposed to be there for them.

And so the idea that you may not be there for them is just really hard. It's the hardest bit about this whole experience has been the idea that I might not be around for them. And I still find really, really hard. And all I can do is just hope that I have. prepared them, that they are in good shape, that we have a good family support system, and, and that it will be okay.

But that was the hardest thing in the hospital, and people used to keep exclaiming, because I have five children, which is a lot, and I remember in the hospital, everybody who heard this would exclaim, five children! And it would, I would feel like saying, yes I know, I know, it's awful, don't remind me! I have five children and I also have this disease that, you know, thanks for rubbing it in.

It was, it was tough, but I am an optimist, as you will know if you read the book, and I just think my children are in good shape and that's, that's all I can do for them is just bring them up, give them resilience. I hope that they're in good shape and just be around for as long as I possibly can. 

Zibby: This makes me want to cry because, I mean, isn't this what everybody worries about?

You know, we're all going to leave our children. I mean, having a diagnosis is, is one thing and, but this is what everybody, we're all human beings. And we're all going to die. we can walk outside today and get hit by a car. Do you know what I mean? We don't, none of us have a guarantee of any sort of long term stay.

You know, we, nobody gets this permission or this guarantee and every day. 

Sophie: No, I tell you, no. Do you know, when you say permission, when I first got told that I was very ill, I had this kind of irrational response in my brain. It was like, but I have five children. Sorry, no, you've got this wrong because I'm a mother of five.

So I can't have the bad disease. So could you move along to someone else? Because I just felt it's impossible. I've, I've, I've got to be here. I've got to be here and there's no way, two ways about it. And it took me a really long time to just sort of get past that feeling. Like there's been a mistake because I'm a mother of five.

I can't do this. That took a long time to get over. 

Zibby: I have four kids and so I'm always like, is this just irresponsible of me to put all these kids into the world? Like, I don't know. What was I thinking? Is that bad?

Like, what do you even make of that? Oh my goodness. How has it been? I saw you opening the box as Writers do the joy of opening the new box of books and all of that. And of course, this book is so personal to you. Book marketing itself is just such a, you know, sort of oppressive drag of sorts, right? And all of the things accompanying it.

And yet the joy of seeing a book is so amazing and often gets lost, right? And all of the stress surrounding the marketing of it and all of that, can you speak to the, how you're approaching this book, and perhaps how that can affect how everybody feels the promotion and coming out of every book.

Sophie: I'm just so grateful that I've been able to write this book, because I thought I would never write a book again.

I assumed that this was, you know, I woke up in a hospital bed with a great big scar over my head, I couldn't move my head, I couldn't form words properly, I couldn't hold a pen. No way was I ever going to write another book. I just assumed that that was the end. Part of my life was dead. And it was only months later that I was able to start putting this book together and finding joy in it and realizing that, that I wanted it to be a proper book, you know, not just something for myself, but a published book.

And I didn't know what would happen to it. It was not like what I normally do. The idea that it would one day I would open this box and there would be this book with the most beautiful cover and that I would be doing what I do as well. I think there's a great comfort for me in feeling. I'm back to what I do.

I write books. They arrive in boxes. I open them and you know, my life in that regard is not over. It's, it's still going. It's just amazing. And I do happen to think it's the most beautiful cover. It's just stunning. Well, in both the covers, the US and the, yes. I mean, look at that. 

Zibby: I know it is gorgeous. It's just gorgeous for, for people listening.

It's a woman with, from the back with this gorgeous. ball gown, and in the UK cover I saw as well, the, the, the person is sort of hiding, Eve is hiding behind a curtain, sort of in a hospital gown that morphs into a real gown, which is just gorgeous. It's so beautiful. 

Sophie: Yeah. And I've been so touched by the kind of the thoughtfulness that has gone into the publication of this book.

And I am so touched by the responses I've had from people who have seen me or heard me, or just come across my story, that I feel that this isn't like marketing the average book. It's like a big conversation about some quite deep and personal questions. So it's also cathartic for me, you know, this maybe this is like one big round of therapy that I'm doing here.

Zibby: Therapy and yeah, it's amazing for you and everyone else, you know, I mean, it's such a gift what you've given the world with this book. They're all gifts, but this is a true, true, beautiful gift because it's helping everybody else find all that meaning in their own lives. And how, what, what, what better way for a book to reach people?

Isn't that what story is all about? 

Sophie: Oh, absolutely. I mean, you know, you've got to, you've got to have some truths in your story. I always believe that, you know, the best comedy comes out of truth and painfulness. The best stories come out of truth and painfulness, and, you know, there's optimism even when there's you know, horrendous news.

There can be optimism. And what I hope is that this book is helpful to anybody who is going through something similar, or perhaps just has struggles, needs a bit of perspective, needs to laugh, needs to, you know, know what it's like, or even just anybody who's curious. And I think that's where the title came from and the initial idea came from is that I could tell that my friends were curious, like, well, what is it like to go through something so extraordinary?

I remember a friend of my husband's once asked him, what do you talk about? He, he just wondered what he, my husband and I talked about faced with this extraordinary thing in our life. And so I thought, well, you know, maybe people are interested to know the nitty gritty of what it's like. And You know, how, what led my writing.

Zibby: There's one moment in the book where you say to your husband and I'm sorry, when Eve is talking to her husband and has a moment of panic, which of course comes and goes throughout the book and just says like, well, when I die, you, you have to be there. Right. Cause I always go in the wrong directions and I might not get where I'm going, but can you make sure you're there?

You know, and that. That, that feeling of both the humor, your signature humor, but also just the, what do we do? Like, is there anything we can do aside from hold on to, I don't know, talk about that scene. 

Sophie: Well, it's, it's again, as me finding the kind of the, the, the flippant humor that I can't help myself in every situation.

So even when Eve is contemplating death, she is you know, I would like to think one of my typical heroines, you know, you know, I always have to find the funny side of any situation. And, you know, I'll be honest, I, I do think about death now in a way that I didn't. Um, I have questions which I can't answer.

I'm curious. I want to be prepared. And that is part and parcel of what happens, I think, when you find yourself in my position. You know, my, my doctors are very optimistic, and talk as though I have, you know, a long time ahead of me and for that I'm very grateful. But at the same time, you know, I've had an almighty shock and so I can't help the odd moment of catastrophizing and thinking, well, what if, what if, what if?

I live in uncertainty and that's a very tough, tough time. place to live in. But by turning some of my thoughts into a funny scene in a book, that's, that makes me happy. That makes me happy. 

Zibby: It's amazing. Sophie, thank you for taking this time with me today. In case you forgot, we're still on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.

Um, thank you seriously for the book, for all of the work that you do. But this book is one of my favorites of all time. It's just It's, it's everything. It's a primer on how to live and why we do everything and the celebration of love and family and it is sensational and amazing. So thank you. Thank you for taking the time.

Sophie: Wow. You are so kind. Thank you so much for this conversation and for your kind words about the book. That honestly, that means so much to me. I'm going to cry now. 

Zibby: Me too. I'm going to go like bawl my eyes out after this. 

Sophie: Thank you so much. It's been amazing. 

Zibby: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. I'm sending love.

You don't even know me, but anyway, bye. 

Sophie: Okay. Bye bye. Bye bye.