Mary Catherine Starr, the artist behind the @momlife_comics Instagram account, chats with Zibby about her utterly hilarious and relatable illustrated memoir about modern motherhood, MAMA NEEDS A MINUTE! Mary opens up about the emotional toll of early parenthood, the sleep deprivation that rocked her first year as a mom, and the mental load that continues to weigh on mothers today. She also shares how her comics—born out of personal overwhelm—have struck a chord with women around the world, and how motherhood reshaped her marriage and creative life.

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome, Mary Catherine. Thank you so much for coming on Mama Needs A Minute, a candid, funny, all, too relatable comic memoir about surviving motherhood. Thank you. 

Mary: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. 

Zibby: Uh, this is the perfect time to talk about this book and the unrealistic expectations of Modern Motherhood, which you literally paint a picture of, although you illustrate a picture of, I should say, in the book, talk a little about what this book is about, how it came to be, and we'll go from there.

Mary: Yeah, well the book obviously came to be because I became a mom and very quickly learned how expectations from others are insane. And it's one of those things I think you really can't even begin to scratch the surface of until you, you're in, in the experience, until it's happening to you. And so I, I, pretty soon after becoming a mom, like.

Was in crisis mode, you know, I mean, I know everyone kind of gets theirs at different times. Um, but my, my first child didn't sleep for like 14 months and, um, you know, I just went right into that. I mean, you know what, everybody goes through their, like, really hard few months at the beginning, but mine was like 14 months of sleep deprivation and anxiety, and I'm an anxious person.

I, you know, I, it, it hit me. Really hard, especially not sleeping. And I think that like just that first year of motherhood was so traumatic for me that even though my daughter's now eight, I'm still recovering from it. And I really think this book was kind of born out of that first year that the, the trauma of becoming a mom.

And learning, although totally beautiful and wonderful as we all know, the trauma of kind of learning what that means in our current culture with our current societal expectations and the setup of our homes and the expectations of moms. And, you know, a big focus for me in my work, uh, over the past couple years has been kind of talking about household inequality, the mental load, invisible labor, all of that wonderful stuff.

So, um, all of that kind of, kind of led me to, to writing this book, you know, that, that early, the early experience and then. So honestly, every single year after that, I've just, as my kids get older, learning more and more about how hard motherhood is.

Zibby: I mean, we need to say something that will not make parents feel so depressed hearing this.

Mary: Yeah. 

Zibby: It gets easier. It really does. 

Mary: Right. And I think, you know, I'm so important to me always to say like, the undercurrent of all of this is like, I love being a mother more than anything in the world. And I know we all, you know, we all always say that, but I think it's because I'm, I'm writing and I'm speaking to mothers and I'm.

Always talking with that assumption that we all know that, you know, because obviously I wouldn't trade it for the world. I mean, maybe that's not obvious, but I really wouldn't, I love being a mom so much and I think that's what makes this so hard, you know, if, if it wasn't enjoyable. It, we wouldn't all feel so confused, you know, but we, all we've heard about is the good stuff.

And then when you become a mom, the really hard stuff can really hit you like a ton of bricks. And, and I think a lot of us, um, especially now, because I think that it just keeps expectations for moms just keep getting higher and higher and more and more amped up the more that we're expected to be able to do and the way we're expected to be able to do it all.

And, um, yeah, I, I just think that we, again, we're not talking about that enough or, or maybe we don't wanna talk about it. To new moms because it is depressing. But I think it's a really, it's a, it's a, a very important truth of the state of motherhood right now that um, I'm glad people are finally talking about and I'm happy to be a part of that conversation. 'Cause I think we need to have it. 

Zibby: Well I think new motherhood in particular is challenging. My twins are 18 very soon, and by the time this comes out, they will be 18. 

Mary: Yeah. 

Zibby: And I still remember. Like trying to figure out the nursing schedule and thinking, well, this does not fit in with modern life at all.

Mary: Right. 

Zibby: I understand how back in the day you could sit in your cave and nurse whenever, but like nobody else is slowing down to make room for me and my baby's nonsensical schedules. 

Mary: Yeah. 

Zibby: And that's really hard to square with a, a life that is so. Regimented as all our lives have to be. 

Mary: Yeah, I totally agree. And, and I think in addition to just the basics, like the physical demands of motherhood, you know, and, and, um, the scheduling demands of motherhood. I think the other really big part for me that I really explore in this book is just that, the way in which it affected my relationship and my marriage. 

Zibby: Yes.

Mary: And, you know, my, my book traces, it really traces my relationship with my husband. We met in college, we were college sweethearts. And it traces kind of our, our relationship from meeting in college all the way up until having two kids. And it talks about, you know, how do we go from become being a very egalitarian couple who, you know, washed the dishes together every night and did our laundry side by side and cleaned our house together.

How do we go from that to this place where I felt like despite really loving my partner, despite feeling like we were on the same page about so much feeling like I was. Doing it all, you know, and, and, and feeling really resentful and angry and overwhelmed and feeling frustrated that it didn't becoming a parent didn't change his life the way it changed mine.

And so that's a lot of what I explore in this book too. And you know, what I'm still really focused on because I think that, that to me, I think is kind of the, the lingering effects of parenthood and especially those hard early years, is that. We're still trying to kind of find our way back to where we were before we had kids.

And that's a really hard journey. And so, you know, I think it, it's all, it's all really important to me. I think the, the way that it affects relationships, the way that it affects moms and dads differently, the way that it affects every facet of your life as a woman, you know, I think all of that. To me, it's just, it is just this conversation that I'm so interested in having with as many as people as I can, because I'm still, I feel like so many of us are still processing it and learning about it.

And it's something that I think our generation of women is, is really exploring in a way that's never been explored before. So I'm, I'm, I'm happy for that, but I think we have a long way to go. 

Zibby: No, I'm happy that you shared it and you did so in, uh, such a playful way with the illustrations and of course the accompanying text and all of that tells the full story.

But you did it with a sense of humor as opposed to some books which come across as just very angry, which I understand people have a right to be angry, but your book gets the same point across in a playful, but hey, let's think about this way. Like, look at my stack of laundry and his, and look at what's on my plate and what's not on my husband's plate, and 

Mary: Mm-hmm. We need to see the imperfections and the communication problems so that we can realize like, oh, other couples are talking about this and struggling with this too. And it doesn't necessarily mean that it's my relationship, it's my situation. 

Zibby: Yeah. And I think that's, that's for me has been the most eye-opening part of, you know, I, I, I started making these comics back in 2020 when I was, you know, feeling really overwhelmed, even right before the pandemic.

But then the pandemic hit and they became kind of a therapeutic outlet. But when I started making them, I really. I didn't know how kind of classic my story was, how universal it was. I really felt like there was something wrong with me or there was something wrong with my marriage or there was something wrong with my personality.

Maybe I'm just not able to, to do this mothering thing in the way that everybody else is. 'cause it's so hard for me. And I think that's what I learned really quickly through the comics is that you. Of course, this is very universal. So many mothers feel this way, and so many people in their partnerships feel this way about, you know, after having kids about feeling really unequal and one person feels like their whole life's been flipped upside down, the other person doesn't.

You know, I, I really learned that quickly. Like, oh, this is something people all over the, I mean, I was getting messages from moms all over the world when, when my comic started kinda getting out there saying like. I live in, you know, I live in Botswana and we have the same exact issue here. You know, it's like, I just didn't realize it was something so universal.

And so I think for me, that's been, that really has helped me so much. And it's, I mean, it's, it's galvanized me, but it's also really, really helped me to, to normalize. This, I, I don't think normalizing means accepting it, but to know that it's not, I'm not the problem. It's bigger than me. So now let's talk about why that is and, and what we need to do about it or what we can do about it.

Mary: And what can we do about it. If you were to devise, if you were to devise the perfect world, what would it look like? 

Zibby: Well, I should be clear, my book does not give it answers. It's not a step by step guide. I know. I'm just, I'm putting you on the spot now. 

Mary: Yes. That's why.

Zibby: I realize it does not have the secret of life in your book. But.

Mary: Yes, I just always want people to know I'm not an expert.

I'm just someone who struggled with this. But I think, you know, for me, so much of it starts at the beginning and I think right now, at least in the us our culture is not our, our. Our societal structure is not set up to support parents at all, and particularly mothers. But you know, I think starting from the very beginning, I think that we should have equal amounts of parental leave.

I think that's a really basic thing that could help so much, and not just given the, that, you know, that amount of leave in our. Employee handbooks, but actually encouraged to take it so that we can really be equal partners. I think on paper, a lot of places do say, oh yeah, moms and dads both get the same amount of time.

And then when it comes down to it, dads are looked down on if they take more than a week or something. So I think that, you know, is a really. Easy place to start. It's like, let's get both parents more involved from the beginning. But then I think, you know, what I think are pretty basics, like maybe making sure we have universal pre-K or more affordable childcare.

These things that allow moms to work without feeling, you know, completely like they're taking a huge financial hit. Or allow, you know, both parents to work if they choose to or able to or want to, all of those things. But I think, you know, some of these real basic. To me, societal structures that a lot of other countries do have.

I think we could start there just from the beginning to make it a little bit easier for parents. So that's my hope. But, but you know, I think a big part of this too is dads need to step up and dads, we need to be educating our children that, you know. Someone, I, I forget where I read this, but someone said, you know, moms and women have been told our whole lives now that we can have it all.

But what we haven't taught is we haven't taught the boys what that means for them in order for women to do both things or have it all, what does that mean Guys need to do? They can't just, it can't stay status quo, right? They really have to step up in the home. And so that's another part I think of the puzzle is like really starting to educate our men and our boys about what it means for them.

If we wanna have women be a more active part of the world and of the workplace, which. I do, I think most of us do than, than we really need men to, to take an active role in the home. And I think that's right now, not, not something that, not an expectation that culturally we have for men, even though this generation of of fathers are much more, you know, quote unquote involved and hands-on and ever before.

Zibby: Well, I think it'll. Ripple down too. 

Mary: Mm-hmm. 

Zibby: Even the smaller steps that men are taking. 

Mary: Yes. 

Zibby: When the boys see and they can model and they have someone's behavior that they can pattern theirs after, I think that will be helpful. Yeah. I think.

Mary: I'm hopeful. I'm very, I'm very hopeful. I think, you know, I don't think we were having any of these kind of conversations and on a more of a mainstream level like we are now, you know, I think books about, you know, the equal household e evening out, the household load and the mental load.

Those are becoming bestsellers. You know, people are talking about this. There's so many books about, you know, female rage and, um, anxiety and all of this stuff that I think plays into this conversation. So I'm hoping that the more that we talk about it and the more that people write about it and people like you have us on podcasts and we expect that, that, you know, it will become more of a, of cultural conversation that sticks around.

Zibby: So what does your day-to-day life look like? How much time do you see? Spend drawing. How do you draw? Is it on the computer? Is it by hand? How much do you spend writing versus childcare? Like, what is your day? What is your life like? 

Mary: Well, this year is the first year both my kids are in school on the same schedule.

They're both in like our public school nearby and, um, go to the same school. So this is the first year I've had like an actual normal quote unquote normal work schedule. So they go to school and I work all day, but I'm kind of like you. And then I have a lot of different business wear, a lot of different hats.

So I'm, you know, I make my comics and I'm posting those. I also have a substack where I post comics. And then I do a lot of sponsored comics or collaborations with like-minded brands, um, or other content creators. And then I run a graphic design business, so I'm also doing that with a partner. So we have, we have that going teach yoga in the evening.

So, you know, every day is a little different. Like, it's a lot of just, okay, what's, what's on the docket today? I try to. You know, try to batch my work and focus, but I'm doing a lot more drawing now than ever before, which I love. It's, you know, that's my, my happy place and I love it 'cause I can listen to audio books and podcasts while I draw.

So that's always fun. But yeah, so I'm still, I'm still, you know, probably like you doing a lot of different things on a daily basis, but I wouldn't have it any other way. 

Zibby: Well I love doing it that way because I feel like I would get bored otherwise. I love.

Mary: Same here.

Zibby: Able to jump around. Try things and switch gears me like I like switching gears.

Mary: Me too. Yeah. And every time I get overwhelmed and I'm like, oh, I've gotta let something go. I look at all the stuff I'm doing and I go, well, nope. Can't let anything go. Not gonna happen. I love it all too much. So, you know, here we are. 

Zibby: Wow. And teaching yoga too. Wow. 

Mary: I, yeah, not, I only teach two classes a week these days. It used to be a lot more, but. You know, it's nice. 

Zibby: I, I haven't even done two yoga classes in like the last two years. So the fact that you teach two a week. 

Mary: Okay. It's, it's time with adults and humans. You know, I work from home by myself. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Mary: And it's a lot of drawing. So.

Zibby: Yeah. 

Mary: It is nice to be out with, with other people every once in a while.

Zibby: And how do you do the drawing? Because..

Mary: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I use just a little tablet, you know, it's like a, it's like, what's not, it's, um, I plug into my, into my Mac and it's just like a little digital drawing tablet and really, I mean. I got it in 2020 and I got it 'cause I had like an Apple gift card and I was like, huh, what should I use this for? And this looks cool. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Mary: And I'm so glad I did 'cause it really changed my life. I mean, that's why I started making these comics 'cause I was like trying out this new drawing tablet. Um, before that I've been more of a fine artist and I was like, I'm gonna start, you know, seeing if I can draw on this, teach myself how to draw on this.

And then it kind of opened this whole new world. To me, so very thankful. And I never thought I'd be like a digital artist. I always thought like, ugh, no, I need, I need the real stuff. But it's amazing. I love it. It, it makes me, allows me to create so much more quickly and yeah, it's really fun. 

Zibby: And how do you, in your graphic design business mm-hmm. What are you making, like logos and posters? Are you doing like, like what..

Mary: Yeah, yeah. Logos, marketing, materials, branding. We do websites. Stuff like that. So I've been doing that, that's been kind of my, you know, my day job for many years now. And it, it's great. 'cause, you know, I have a, it's just, um, another mom who's my business partner, good friend, longtime friend.

And so we can scale it up and scale it down and, you know, in the summers we stop taking any new clients and just kind of keep it smaller. And so it's, it's great. It's, you know. Like you said, like it's, it's nice to, I, it keeps me from getting bored. It's nice to have other, other outlets for my creativity besides just the comics, so it's good. Yeah. 

Zibby: Amazing. 

Mary: Yeah. 

Zibby: So what advice would you have for someone who is undertaking a creative project like yours? 

Mary: Well, I think the most important thing for me is just like to keep creating, you know, I, I. I've had lots of different iterations of my life as an artist. You know, when I came out of school I was focusing on oil painting and then I started doing like greeting cards and then I started doing custom art for people.

You know, it's been all different things. Sometimes it's graphic design, so now it's comics. But I'd say if you're a creative person, you know, just keep creating. And I think that's really hard, especially for moms. And because being creative is like such a part of my self expression and my, my way of like my therapy, you know, some people journal, I don't journal I, I create, and so I think that's.

Just always what I tell people, like if there's anything, if that's important to you and that's a part of your life, which I think everybody has some sort of creative practice. Maybe it's cooking, but. To just make time for it. I know that's so much easier said than done when you're, especially in the early years of motherhood.

But any way that you can, even if it's just small little bits, that's, I think that's really what's enabled me to kind of get to this place where I'm able to do it much more for my, for my job. Um, 'cause I just never stopped creating. Maybe I didn't have a choice. It's, you know, it's kind of like that internal drive. But, um, yeah, I think that makes a huge difference. 

Zibby: Have you ever talked to Jess Johnston who wrote, perfect Is Boring and it tastes like Kale? 

Mary: No, and I've never even heard of that book. 

Zibby: Okay, so I just had her on right before you and..

Mary: Uh huh. 

Zibby: I was joking with her that she needed to start a line of greeting cards with some of these sayings about how life for Moms doesn't have to be perfect. So I think I should put the two of you in touch. I'm gonna do that after this. 

Mary: That's amazing. 

Zibby: Okay. 

Mary: That's amazing. Well, as I to tell you, I just love the name of what this podcast used to be, and you tell me that. Mom don't have the time to read books, because I think that's so true. But also like reading is the best when you're a mom 'cause it's such a perfect escape.

And I just, I love, I love that message. 

Zibby: Thank you. Yes. I'll, I'll always be an unofficial subtitle. 

Mary: Yeah. It's amazing. 

Zibby: Well, thank you so much for coming on. I loved our Core Club event together and getting to meet you in person and you were just so articulate and I can't wait to see and obviously just so talented and I can't. Wait to see what the future brings for you. I'll be following along eagerly watching, so congrats. 

Mary: Thank you and thanks for everything you do for female authors and authors in general. You're amazing. 

Zibby: Thank you. Okay. All right. Bye-bye. Thanks. 

Mary: Bye.