Zibby interviews author Loretta Rothschild about her strikingly original and deeply moving debut, FINDING GRACE. The two discuss the book’s intoxicating blend of sweeping love story and emotional thriller, its nuanced exploration of grief, motherhood, secrets, and identity, and the unforgettable narrator, Anna. Loretta opens up about her creative process, the long road to finishing the novel, and how day-to-day details and quiet observations shaped her storytelling.

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome, Loretta. Thank you so much for coming on Totally Booked with Zibby. I am so obsessed with your book, as you saw from my Instagram and now all these people wanna read it right now and are so annoyed that I wrote all that before it, it is available, but Finding Grace. Oh my gosh, it's so good. Congratulations. 

Loretta: Oh, that's so nice. I'm so, I was very touched by your post.

It's, it's all very new, so it's so nice when someone even knows your book exists, let alone likes it. So that was really touching, so thank you. 

Zibby: I. It. I didn't just like it. It's so good. The writing is so good. The plot is so good. The emotions, like I just, I was so sad I didn't, as I got to towards the end, I just like wanted to slow down.

So I didn't lose the characters, and yet then I also had to speed up to see what was gonna happen. And now I have so many questions, but maybe I'll have to ask you offline so I don't give anything away. A few things that I, 

Loretta: Yes, I know it's a really tough book to talk about, and we've discovered this because the most exciting thing is knowing nothing about it.

And that's been something that, that's, you know, my agent and my, my editor Sarah, we just sort of sit and go. Um, so what can we say? And it's, it's not easy, I have to say. It's not easy. Even now, we still, we still try and work out how to describe it. 

Zibby: Yeah. Do you wanna give a one line description or something of what.

Without giving things away. 

Loretta: I without giving anything away. I think I would say that at the, at the core of it, at the core of Finding Grace is a, is a love story between two characters whose lives are appended by unexpected events. And I wrote it wanting to write about these two characters. So it is a love story, but it has the, maybe the kind of speed of a thriller.

That was what I wanted to do was have it be straight from the beginning for it to just become, I didn't want any, I wanted to do things that were unexpected, but still being very loyal to the structure of a, of a love story. 

Zibby: Well, there is, it's built around a secret, and whenever people have secrets. The, the sort of corrosiveness and the self-destruction that comes from keeping a secret and the after effects, sort of the, the ripple effects rather of secret keeping and all of that, and how it can kind of drive you mad.

I feel like that is part of this as well. 

Loretta: It's a full, it's a full-time job for, for honest people. You know what, what I discovered with Tom was I was stressed, you know, writing on his behalf and, you know, he, he's, he's in a kind of. He's not a liar. He's made a terrible mistake and he gets very, very far in and it, it, it's very stressful to not be living in the truth.

And it's a good lesson, you know, it is a full-time job. I, I I, I, it would sometimes wake me up at night because I would be kind of energized from certain things I was writing. It, it was very real. It was, it, it, it was, it was, it was real to me. Um, so I think it was really a lesson in just how unbelievably overwhelming emotions like grief and love can be and how intoxicating.

They are and just how dangerous they can be. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Loretta: And put you in a place and make you do things you would never do. You know, Tom would never have done those things had he not been in such a, a deep well of grief. It, it would never have happened without giving anything away. 

Zibby: Oh my gosh. This is killing me.

Well, in broad strokes, it's, it's also about motherhood. The quest to be a mother, what it means to be a mother. It's part of it is set because. One of the characters, grace is training to be a master sommelier. So you have all this wine stuff, uh, thrown in. You have parenting and how to be a good parent and the role of friends.

You really have the village really mapped out of how to get through something and who is supporting who. And the, the, and the supporting characters are so vivid and. They're not even support. They're like very central characters and, and just loyalty and, and then mother-daughter relationship. I mean, you know, like every, everything.

So I found myself wondering because you wrote so exquisitely about grief and I read a lot of books that talk about grief in many ways, and there was a fresh, almost fresh it sounds. How can you have a fresh perspective on grief, which is of course the oldest emotion in time, but. But I really feel like you did and the way you wrote about it, especially with some one-liners where you just distill all of it, right?

Sometimes it's the most simple explanations that are the most powerful. How have you been affected? Where does your grief story fit into the these things?

Loretta: I think I. Oh, that's very nice and thank you. Because sometimes you, you wonder, you know, you are writing in the dark and you hope that what you are saying, someone will, will, will understand and get what you mean.

But I think, I think coming back to this idea of love and grief as co-pilots, they do drive. You know, in life or, or in fiction, you know, they're real, they're real drivers for, for behavior and unexpected behavior. And I, I think I, I read a lot of, I read a lot of, a lot of books, but I really, I really took the grief element of this book incredibly seriously because of the magnitude of certain parts of it.

And I think I stopped trying to diagnose. Grief or, or explain it. I just kind of wandered alongside of it and, and I appreciated that the grief, the grief has a, everyone reacts in different ways and there is no correct way to, to deal with grief. And, and, and there's no, there's no right or wrong. And I think trying to, trying to kind of understand it would've put me in a, kind of blocked me a little bit.

Instead, I just tried to go on the ride and it was helpful having Anna alongside me because she's so fun to write with. She's a great narrator. She's very, very, you know, she's a writer, so she could also inject a fresh take on something. Also with the context that, you know, it's her husband, so she's talking about someone she knows intimately, which I think added to probably, I think maybe that might be the kind of, you talk about a fresh look.

It might be that little bit of perspective that really made it touch in a different way. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Loretta: Because I would sometimes get upset or emotional because. It sometimes felt cruel, you know, to do certain things to a character or, or, or put them in a certain scenario. But she was very, very, I had rules for her as a, as a narrator because, you know, she is, she would've taken over if I hadn't have kind of kept her slightly in check because she is a writer.

She knows all these characters so well, and she's an unexpected narrator for this story, and I obviously won't say why, but she really has everything that you need to kind of inject a story with joy, grief, love, and, and she just kind of brought it home. Like I couldn't have done it without her. And I actually wrote it without her.

I wrote it in the third person and then I came and I just, I couldn't do it without her. She, she had to tell the story. So I think she, in a way, added that, that kind of special, it has something I can't even sort of put my finger on it, but I think she really took it to a, to a different place emotionally.

Zibby: Wait, so tell me the whole story of writing the book. You, you first wrote the whole thing in the third person. What, what did you know? Yes, like and when did you start writing and what was the process and. Tell me the whole story. What were you doing before? Maybe go back, go, go, go back in your life, in, in the writing life.

Where did this go? 

Loretta: So I have, I think I've always been a writer. I think that, you know. You, you, I thought everyone walked around making up stories in their head. I, I thought that's what everybody did. So I would, you know, be having conversations in the car and my sister would be like, what are you doing?

And I'd be like, and I'd be having an argument with two imaginary people thinking. Because someone had said something, I think, oh, that's really funny. And then I'd start having a conversation and I, I just didn't realize everyone didn't do that. So I think you're kind of born a writer in the sense that you do kind of always have the cameras rolling.

Uh, but you know, and I think that there's certain, you know, you wouldn't do it to yourself if you weren't a right. You, you, you just, how would you come to it and think, you know, I'm gonna put myself in, in this almost kind of. Insane position of creating an entire world out of nothing. And I think, I think I just realized one day that, you know, oh, everyone doesn't think like this.

And then I was always writing things, but I was never completing something. I was never, you know, I was just doing it because it was, I had to get it out. But Anna was an extremely insistent voice in my head. She, she wasn't going anywhere, so I, I didn't, she was gonna get written no matter what. So I think that's why this was the first thing I kind of went out into the world with, because she was so, you know, she, she, she was, she was coming in hot.

She was like, okay, this is what I wanna do and everything. And even now, sometimes I walk around and she'll make a comment about someone in my, in my, in my eye line. She'll, you know, make some passing comments. And I, it's actually a slightly, it's better now because I'm writing my next book. And at times she just pops in with a huge opinion about something and I have to kind of take a walk or read something because she just comes in.

And, uh, so it's a, it's a, it's a, I don't, I don't know anything else in a sense of, of a way to be. And there's a great line in the, um, in a movie called, um, the Barefoot Contessa, where, uh, Humphrey Bogart says to Ava Gardner, oh, she says to him. Can you teach me to act? Can you teach me how to act? And he says, if you can act, I can teach you.

And I think it's the same as writing. You know, if you can write, you can really learn how to write in terms of how do you make your idea digestible to more than just yourself. And that part is a different part. I think you can't sort of the sort of ideas and the wanting to create something has always been there.

And then it was like, right, how am I gonna execute this and, and, and make it what I see it as and, and, and, and digestible for, for people that don't know me, who I'm not sitting in front of, and. And it turns out that was a book. 

Zibby: Yeah. It's amazing. So what were you doing in your regular life while this came to be like, paint me a picture of, of life for you and then the book Finding its Way in.

Loretta: So I was. I was living in this, I was living in la um, my husband was doing a, um, he was at, at USC doing a, um, he was meant to be doing his PhD. And uh, I always had my laptop with me. I was always writing things down and I'd modeled before, so I was always kind of, moving around and I was very used to kind of having all my books with me and my, you know, I carried everything with me.

So I was always able to write and I just kept writing every day I would, wherever I was, I kind of got over the idea that I needed to sit at a certain desk and do it a certain way, and I just got on with it. And LA was a place that, you know, was everyone's talking about. Creating things, talking about things, incredible workshops.

So it was sort of fertile ground to to, to get on with something. But I, I did get on with it quite quietly. I, I didn't wanna talk about it until it existed. That didn't, didn't come naturally to me. But yeah, I think that was, that was about nine, eight years ago. 

Zibby: And then how long, what happened from nine, eight years ago till now?

Loretta: So I started, I started writing this book properly in lockdown. So I had a kind of maybe three or four chapters. And then with all that time and also sort of not being, there was no more excuses. I couldn't, and there was no reason I couldn't do it anymore, you know? And I loved that sort of. There was no obstacles.

So I had to, I had to get on with it, and I did. And that was maybe just before, so maybe four years ago, something like that. Four years ago. And that's, that's now. 

Zibby: And then you just took it out as a, you got an agent right away. Was it just a, an easy process? 

Loretta: I got an English agent first, and I, I got my agent, Jonathan Lloyd at, um, Curtis Brown.

He read the first three chapters and rang me up. So it was such a wonderful moment. 'cause you just think, oh, maybe I'm mad. Maybe this is just like, no one's gonna understand what I, what I've done. And he rang me up and just said, this is, I can remember so well what he said. He, he, I, I, I was like, hello? He said, Brita.

I mean, I, I can't believe what you've done. I mean, this, this, this never happens. Uh, this is so dangerously brilliant. I, I dunno what to, to, and you just sort of, and I just thought, oh my gosh, thank goodness. And he said, okay, right. Let's get on with this. Let's get on with this. And so I just kept writing and kept writing and he sent it to Christie Fletcher at UTA and she sent me a wonderful email as well, saying, you know.

This is extraordinary and I, I, let's do it. And, uh, then about a year later, I finally finished it and we went out with it. And that was when I was lucky enough to have, uh, St. Martin's Press buy it and also my next book. So I get to do my next book with, uh, Sarah too, which is amazing for me. Can you share anything about your next book?

I'm a bit, uh, it's too early. It's too early, but it's going very well. But it's, it's, it's, you know, it's, it's the gestation period. It's very, very, I I, I'm very nervous all the time. It's gonna go, uh, it's just that moment where you. It's, it's very new. It's very new. 

Zibby: Okay. 

I won't dig too deep. It's okay. 

But just what are the things, can you share anything about your own life or an experience, because at least for grief, and I was, I was touching on this before, I mean, you can't, you can't have written this beautifully about grief without having felt it.

Can you, I mean, is that even possible? Did you. 

Loretta: I, I mean, I've definitely had grief in my life. I, I've not had a traumatic event in the same sense as, as honor and, and grace and Tom, but I do think that grief is, is such a pungent emotion, and I think depending on what kind of age it hits you, it can, it can really stick with you.

And I, I don't know if I've kind of. Have an experience that would, would kind of have led me to writing this book and, and led me to writing it about grief in the way I have. I think I, I think I am always listening and I'm always wondering, you know, I became very interested in, in, in fatherhood because of this book.

And I had a conversation with someone completely off nothing. We weren't talking for the book or anything. We just met and he had a daughter and, um, him and his wife were divorced and he was the sole. He, he looked after her most of the time and, um, I can't remember how we got onto it, but he. Loretta, I very rarely go into a restaurant where someone says, oh, I'll get you a seat without saying, is it just the two of you?

And it was moments like that. I didn't look for things that were bigger than, than the day to day. I think that maybe the reason it feels so kind of universal and, and real is because I, I didn't, I didn't go on a deep dive for anything. Anything. It sounds silly, but like bigger than the day. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Loretta: And I think that in the day things can happen, that feel in when you're in a certain, you know, when you're in a certain environment and you know, that was obviously for that person, you know, they were with their child and is it just the two of us?

If you hear that three or four times a week, I mean, that would be, you know, it had, it really kind of, it really touched me. I remember sitting there thinking, I mean. Wow. I mean, he goes through that three or four times a week and it was something I'd never thought about. I'd never thought about what that might feel like.

And so that was very, there, there were moments like that, that I really took seriously, and I wonder if maybe it's the day to day that where, you know, I, I don't know. I just, I, I really didn't take anything for granted. And I felt very, what's the word? I felt very responsible to make sure that I told that story between, for both the characters in the book.

I wanted to make sure I, I did it justice because obviously without giving too much away, and it is a, you know, there, there is a lot of joy that comes out of something in the book, but it definitely, yeah, I didn't, I took it very seriously and I didn't want to, I wanted to make sure I did that particular loss justice.

Zibby: Do you believe that there are doppelgangers, if you will, of all of us in the world that there are people who are similar or that we each have a person out there who could be a proxy for us in some way. 

Loretta: Um, that's a great question. I wonder, I wonder, I think. I know, I, I, I don't know. I mean, I think we see what we want to see, and I think Anna talks about this in the book.

You know, if I introduce you to someone in the context of being connected to me, you see them, you know, if they were walking down the street, would you think, oh, that person looks exactly like Loretta. I wonder if they're, you know, uh, long lost sisters or whatever. I, I think that, I think that context is a real context, really does a lot of the work for us.

But I'd like to think so. I mean, it would be quite cool to have, you know, like another version of you, but yeah, I, I mean, I, I can't imagine if that would be, I mean, it would be quite cool. 

Zibby: Are you prepared for the level of success? This book is gonna blow up. It's, I just know it, it's amazing. It's gonna blow up.

Are you ready for that? Are you excited for all that comes with it? 

Loretta: You know, someone asked me the other day what I wanted for this book, and I sort of thought I, I wanted this book to exist in the world and maybe for a, a few people to read it. So everything after that is a bonus. You know, I'm so lucky to have St. Martin's press, Sarah Ton, and I, my editor are just completely in sync and I've just met the most incredible people and the, the fun of it is that they totally got it. I mean, when Sarah and I met for the first time, she, she, she got it. She got the whole thing. She didn't want anything other than what I'd, I'd done.

And working with her was just, it was just so easy and fun. And she's so bright and so smart and so clever. And I mean, what a, what a privilege to get to work with people like that. And everything is just, everything is a bonus and I hope people like it. I hope they find a character in there that they maybe identify with or find funny or a moment that, and I think, I think there will be, I hope so.

But it's just been really incredible and, and I feel incredibly lucky that it's a real object in the world. 

Zibby: Now, do you have a book or two that you loved that you were like, if only it could be like this, like a book that. 

Loretta: I, you know, that's, that's a great question because I think when I looked back at what I was reading and what really stuck with me, it was a lot of, there's a great book called, um, Hope is a Thing with Feathers, which is narrated by, has three narrators, but one is a crow.

I found that, so it, it really changed things for me. It kind of gave me permission to allow honor to take the lead. That book was hugely influential looking back and, and also just, you know, traditional, you know, love stories like Jane Air. I mean, they books are perfect books, so you can have an, you know, you can have an original story, which is really what I wanted to do.

I wanted to write a traditional story, a traditional love story, but with a kind of modern twisty, bringing it to today, kind of what could happen and leave questions like, does love one, does one love take from another? You know, are we truly ever alone? Is there really, you know, fresh start that these things I was so interested by and I wanted to kind of write a book that would lead people to question.

Things maybe in, in, in, in, in the book. I didn't wanna answer things. I felt it was so fun to kind of go along with these characters and, and even ask myself these questions like, does one love take from another? Does, does, is that the thing? You know, so I'm, I'm a big, I mean, I'm a big, I, I love poetry and, and actually when I looked back at some of my notes before we did this from things I was writing, 'cause I'm, I'm very analog, so everything is, everything is in a, a, everything is is physical.

So I have my notes and I was looking through and it was quite clear that. I was, uh, I was writing and asking these questions to myself all the time. And, um, a lot of them, I can hear Anna's voice kind of answering, but I, I still pose myself the questions, which is really fun. 

Zibby: Well, Loretta, congratulations.

So amazing. I'm so excited for you. Thank you for coming on. 

Loretta: Thank you so much Zibby.