Zibby is joined by licensed psychologist and dyslexia expert Dr. Lisa Rappaport to discuss PARENTING DYSLEXIA, a compassionate guide to help parents and others support dyslexic learners of all ages. Lisa shares her journey, from nearly dropping out of high school due to undiagnosed dyslexia to earning a PhD. Together, they reflect on the emotional toll of learning struggles, the shame that can surround them, and the transformative power of support, humor, and perseverance. With candid stories and actionable advice, this one’s a must-listen for parents navigating similar challenges!

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome, Lisa. I am so excited to welcome you on my show to talk about Parenting Dyslexia, a comprehensive guide to helping kids develop confidence, combat shame, and achieve their true potential. Yay. 

Lisa: Thank you for having me.

Zibby: So this is so special because we are parents at the same school. And how many years ago did we take a walk and you took for what was it called? Safety patrol. And you were talking about maybe doing a book. When was that? Didn't I, wasn't that when I found out I was pregnant? Wasn't that 10 years ago?

Lisa: I was going to say it was 10 years ago. 

Zibby: Oh my gosh. Yeah. 'cause I feel like on the walk I like pulled over and found out from the doctor that I was officially pregnant or something like that. I dunno. Anyway, and I have a 10-year-old so this, I feel like, just so excited for you that it has come to be and just I'm over the moon.

Okay. Tell everybody about the, and why, what's happened in the 10 years that has led this book to come into the world. 

Lisa: So the book was actually first conceived right after I had graduate, right after I finished graduate school because I am dyslexic and I really suffered through high school. I almost flunked out of high school.

I was on academic probation and after I finally graduated. From the University of Pennsylvania, which was a long road, and then got my PhD, I realized I had a story. So I wrote a memoir, but then I stuck it away because I got my dream job at Montefiore and Einstein, and I didn't want anyone to know I was dyslexic.

I. And then after many years, I realized that I really have an interesting lens because I work with dyslexic children. I have a child with a learning issue, not dyslexic, but other issues, and I am dyslexic. And so I really wanted to help. Parents and during the pandemic, one of my friends encouraged me to really write the book and she actually became my writing partner, and that's how it came to be.

Zibby: I was surprised in your introduction because even though we talked about your own dyslexia and whatever, I didn't realize quite how. I wanna say derailed, but it wasn't derailed. But even just how you and your mother even was like so fed up and was just like, oh, just drop outta school already.

I like, can't take this. And I joke about it and you joke about it a little bit, but it does become, it can become such a point of conflict within families when something is going awry. There's no clear path. Now dyslexia is much more commonly diagnosed and back then it was not. But still, you speak to that all upfront and share with us like that can have been easy that you're, you watched your friends go off one way and you went off another way in terms of like ability and what that does to your own self-esteem when it actually is just the different way of your brain working.

Can you take us back to your own experience of that? 

Lisa: So yes, the shame, I would call it shame started when I was six. And I couldn't articulate it, but I knew I was different and I was, my mom was called into school immediately, so I was diagnosed at a very young age, but no one knew how to help me.

And so my mom, even though I had tutors, none of them were really helping me. My mom, just out of instinct and some education in that area. Help me straight through school, but as you said, there were certain parts of school where it really became derailed. In ninth grade, I switched schools. I was a new kid, and my biology teacher would give us a test every Friday, and every Monday she would hand them back in grade order.

Oh, no, and no. I got my test back last, and I couldn't make friends at this school because. I think I was just known as the stupid one. And so I wound up leaving the school a year later and going back to my old school. And in my old school then I was doing okay. But then junior year, it was junior year, which is hard for everybody.

I had tutors in three different subjects. I was failing chemistry. I wasn't doing well in Spanish too, or trigonometry. And I was studying for the SAT and my dean called me into the office to tell me that I was being put on academic probation. And she said to me, are you stupid or not trying? I need to know which it is.

And that was the weekend after so many, years of really hating school, that was the pivotal moment. I had been fighting with my mom for years because I hated school, but that was the weekend that totally derailed our lives. And at that point, my mom was so exasperated with me because I was so hysterical and angry.

I was quite angry that she said she couldn't take it anymore. There were days she would drive me to school and then I would. Leave when I went to the other schools. So that was it. And I spent that weekend with a very good friend of mine who was older than I was. And we went through my options and I knew I could quit.

My mom said quit. I was 16. We thought about it and then we came up together with the idea that really, I had already hit rock bottom. I had nowhere else to go. I might as well just go back to school and try, keep trying and, I limped through 11th grade. I graduated 43 outta 46 in my graduating class, my dean made sure to let me know that, and so it was not pretty, it was hard.

It was not an easy road. 

Zibby: But then how did you end up getting your PhD? The plot twist here is like knocking my feet out from under me. 

Lisa: So my school is a very academic small school, so I had some good skills. That I didn't realize I had because the school was so difficult and high pressured.

I went to college. I really struggled emotionally in college. I did not like the school I went to. It was a party school because that's where my dean sent me, and I felt like I had just worked so hard to get that high school degree. I did not want to be around people that did not take academics seriously.

I was so misunderstood. She thought it was a partier, but I really wasn't. I really did care and I actually, ironically, really enjoyed reading. I just couldn't read that quickly. So my mom did read me my homework basically through 11th grade, but I always read for pleasure very slowly on my own. And so I came back to New York after six weeks in my college.

I had nowhere to go. I took classes non-matriculated and I got really good grades because. College was easier for me than high school was for a multitude of reasons. I could take what I wanted. I could take it at the pace that I wanted to, and I did extremely well. And I transferred to University of Pennsylvania and I did better at Penn than I did in high school.

I did find it easier than high school. Your brain is a dyslexic, develops more slowly. And so by college, my brain was ready to learn some of the things that it wasn't ready to learn when I was younger and I was becoming a better reader in college. And then I eventually applied for a master's program because I didn't think I could do the PhD program because statistics.

And then when I was doing extremely well in the master's program, I applied for the PhD. So it was a very long road. 

Zibby: That's amazing. I can't believe you didn't give up. The fact that you were gonna drop out of school at 16 and the fact that so many people actually do drop out of school at 16, and this is such a really like an epidemic of misunderstanding.

And not having the tools and your book in part is giving people the tools that they lack or that they could use to help their kids. But you were so close, like this is like the sliding doors of your life. You could have had a totally different. Life and with all that negativity, I know you personally, and so this all comes as such a shock to me.

You would never know. That you have gone through all, I guess you never know about anybody, but you just wouldn't know. You wouldn't think all of this, that you had been just essentially bullied by the administration and made to feel so 

Lisa: terrible. I think the, everyone always asks me, what's the gift of dyslexia?

And I remember I was on a panel and I panicked because I didn't know what the gift of dyslexia was. And I, my real answer at that point, which was about 30 years ago, was what gift, I don't find this as a gift, but I have to say the gift is resilience and grit. Because that's what dyslexics learn and they learn to fail at a very young age and pivot.

And I do know how to fail very well. I am definitely willing to take a risk because I know if I fail, I will find another way. And I think that's the real gift, and that's what I'm trying to impart to these little children in this book and to teenagers, is that. There's another way you can pivot, but don't give up and have resilience.

And also for parents to find a, an area that builds self-esteem for their children because I did not have that. My mom was amazing in many ways, but never plugged me into anything I was good at because she was so focused on getting me through school, and I never found anything, any talents. So I think finding your child's talent is really important.

Zibby: Oh my gosh. Is your mom like still with us? 

Lisa: Yes. My mom is 89 and thrilled. 

Zibby: Oh my gosh. 

Lisa: She's the reason I know how to read. 

Zibby: Oh my gosh. And how did this whole, how did this affect your relationship with her? There, it caused so much strife between the two of you, and obviously she's your biggest fan, but like, how does it.

How did it affect, how do, how's your relationship now? 

Lisa: We were best friends. It was really interesting. I say in the book. I couldn't fight with her or be angry with her for too long because I would come home from school. I might be angry at her, but then 20 minutes later I had to sit down and work with her.

She was the only one that could help me. And in that we would talk for breaks, we would talk about stuff because we spent so many hours together. She created the role. The reason my writing partner was so interested in writing the book with me is 'cause she wanted to learn more about our family dynamic.

Because I had a sister who was two years younger and basically perfect. She was good at everything. She was reading better than I was by the time she was four and I was six. And she was better at math and then she tutored me in high school 'cause she was ahead of me in Spanish and in math, and so my mom and dad were really good at making sure there was no competition in our family and everybody helped each other. So we were actually a very tight knit family, and we're, we are to this day. My sister lives three blocks from me. We've sent our kids to the same school. We have a, a house two doors down from each other in Connecticut.

We're really close. We've raised our children very closely because there's just no competition amongst anyone in our household. Everybody helps everybody. And that's the message too, that I try to give in the book. 

Zibby: That is so nice. Oh my gosh. So somebody's taking up this, picking up this book. They're at the end of their rope.

They need help. They don't know what to do, what are some of the things they can expect to get outta this book, and that will help improve their lives and their relationships with their kids and their kids' ability to really function in the world. 

Lisa: So I think the one key thing is to be really honest with your kids about areas where you have failed. Or that you don't excel in. I think parents like to look perfect sometimes to their children or be the ones that know everything. And I think one way to really help your child if they're struggling is to say, this is an area where I struggle. And explain to them maybe where you had a failure. So you're a real person to them.

And it's not as embarrassing or mortifying if a child is coming home with A grade they're not proud of. If they know that you've had your own struggles. So I think that's a really important part of the book. And also to bring humor to everything, because nothing is that big of a deal, especially when we're dealing with school.

It's going to get better. It's not forever. So when your child is in the throes of all this, and that's, my mom used to say that to me. I didn't believe her, but just that, you're not good at reading today. This book, but tomorrow you might be better at reading a different kind of book or even with math, eventually I grew up and I was like, you know what?

I bet I could do trigonometry now if I was just taught differently. My brain is different. So it's just about that little point in time, and I think if parents can say that to a child, then it helps with the shame and the anger and that will help the relationship. There are also some. Strategies just about helping your child organize themselves, which will just, they're real hands-on strategies that I think will just help your child's day better and easier time management, stuff like that.

Zibby: Time management is something we can all use help with. I feel like we're all in the, in a moment of overwhelm and no matter what we're doing, it just feels like time constantly is getting away from us. What's something that can help kids and grownups? 

Lisa: Academically or social emotionally? 

Zibby: I meant even from a time management perspective.

Lisa: Oh, time management. I think just really, writing things down. Not on the phone, but taking a piece of paper and making a list and saying, this is what I have to do. This is how long I think it will take. And then pad it because it always takes longer than you think. And building in breaks so that it's just little pieces to bite off, so it's not overwhelming.

Zibby: Interesting. I know there are some schools that sort of specialize in language-based learning differences and all of that. How do you feel, do kids need to go to those types of schools? Is it the first choice? What can they do in their own school if they don't have access to a school like that? How can they advocate for themselves with their own educators?

Lisa: So if those schools are available, I think they're amazing. My, my life would've been different if those schools existed when I was little. I think that would be the first point of contact. But if a lot of people can't afford those schools, they're not cheap. I think partnering with your school is really important if you get your child tested, either through the school or privately.

A lot of parents are afraid to share the evaluation with the school because they think the school will take it out on the child or won't think the child is smart. But it's really important to partner with the school to get the child the accommodations they need and that they have the right to have.

Zibby: Is dyslexia something that you can, this is a stupid question, outgrow could you be diagnosed with dyslexia? But then as you said, your brain is constantly changing and you can do things that you couldn't do before. Are you still technically dyslexic? 

Lisa: So the interesting part of dyslexia is when you do neuropsych testing.

I, I had a patient, he went to Harvard Business School. He was very accomplished. He was in his sixties. He came to me because he was frustrated. They couldn't read, learn his sixth language as fast as his wife. And, but the truth is, he could read and write on a, obviously a graduate school level. He read better than I did.

But when we did the neuropsych testing, he still had deficits. He could not sound words out. He couldn't do phonetic. In coding, he could not sequence the days of the week or the alphabet. So yes, you're always dyslexic. It just, you may compensate and you may have skills that you didn't have, but there will be other areas where you will have a deficit at some.

You can't hide it all. It's always gonna be there in some form. 

Zibby: Are there careers or trajectories that you've seen that people who are dyslexic thrive in? 

Lisa: Everybody's different. A lot of dyslexics go into the entertainment field or creative fields. When I was doing research for the book, I found out that dyslexics tend to be, I think they said architects or something that made no sense to me because I'm not good spatially at all.

So I think everybody is different. There are some, and dyslexia is really, it affects everybody differently. Some people are good at certain things that I'm not good at, even though I'm dyslexic, I'm good at certain things that other dyslexics aren't. So it really depends. But definitely the entertainment field.

But there are, we have a lot of scientists, we have, surgeons who are dyslexic. So it's open to every field. You can do anything. 

Zibby: Are you in like dyslexia, Facebook groups and things like that? Are, is there a support system for. Even though you, it wasn't there for you as a child, as a grownup.

Now, do you find sort of acceptance and are there groups that you've joined that have been really beneficial that maybe the kids of today can look forward to being a part of later? 

Lisa: I am not personally on a lot of social media, but there are definitely groups on Facebook that offer parents support and I discussed in the book that it's really important to find a community and they're out there and there's a lot of support out there, and there are a lot of ideas on how to help each other and support each other. For sure. 

Zibby: I think there's, I think a lot of people here, or at least I have heard how, and in the book you talk about how the brain of a dyslexic.

Even though it's not linear, like you have this superpower in other ways and part of it is like finding what that other superpower is. Why is that? I'm like, dumb this down for me. You know who's not a scientist, but like why, what? How does it work that some things light up and some don't do you know? What is the answer?

Lisa: I think everybody has a superpower and I think that it's just what you develop when other areas are hard. I didn't actually know what my superpower was. And it, there was a chapter in the book that's not there anymore, writing about what my family, everyone in my family's superpower was. And then when one of my readers said to me, what's yours?

And I said I don't have one. And then they said you're a connector and you're social. And yes, that was growing up. I just compensated by being extremely social because that's where I thrived. And so I think. Everybody has a superpower. It's not just dyslexics, it's just that they have to pivot when they're younger and find it quicker, I think, but they don't always know they have it.

Zibby: Amazing. Wow, this is great. Is there anything for parents who do not have a child who is dyslexic but want to help families that do, or how can they let their kids help other kids who have dyslexia? Everyone should be on the lookout. I know it's really socially acceptable now, but just what can we all do to bring, celebrate Dyslexia in all its ways, is just another way to learn.

Lisa: Just kindness because you know when a kid is struggling or if they misread a word, just having an understanding and not making fun of them or being really supportive is really important because, as I said, my own daughter has learning differences and things that children say they don't mean to be mean, but they don't even realize what they're saying.

And so I think really understanding that these children are not stupid. They're not less than, they're just different. And teaching that and teaching patients and helping each other, if there's somebody who's struggling and doesn't understand, just explain it to them differently and know that they can learn it.

They just need it to be explained in a different way, more tangibly. 

Zibby: I love that. Congratulations Lisa. I'm so excited for you parenting, dyslexia. Lisa and Jody Lyons, your co-author, whatever. So happy for you. Thank you for writing this and not giving up. It's another example of you. And your own resilience and I can't believe you don't think you have any superpowers because you so obviously do and I am holding one product for that in my hands right now.

Lisa: Thank you so much. 

Zibby: Thank you. Thanks for coming on.

Yay. Okay.

Bye Lisa. 

Lisa: Bye.