Totally Booked: LIVE! In this special episode of the podcast (in-person at the Whitby Hotel with a live audience!), Zibby interviews award-winning journalist Leslie Gray Streeter about her vibrant and heartfelt new novel, FAMILY AND OTHER CALAMITIES. They reflect on Leslie’s memoir, BLACK WIDOW, which candidly captures the raw, messy early days of widowhood, and then dive into the new novel, touching on themes of loss, regret, second chances, humor, and the way decisions made in youth can reverberate throughout life. Leslie also shares personal stories of grief and how she has embraced her late husband’s Jewish traditions, finding unexpected community and belonging.

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome. 

Leslie: Thank you. Welcome. 

Zibby: Yay. So I met Leslie during the, not met but met online, the way we all do these days, um, during the pandemic, when her first book came out and we talked all about grief and that book helped me through a really hard period of time in my life.

And so I've had this special relationship with you, even though I haven't met you because of your candidness and openness around your own grief, which was totally different from mine. But there is obviously something in grief that unites everybody, and most people have been through grief of some kind and the way you wrote about it.

Was particularly amazing, so thank you for that. 

Leslie: Thank you. And I've gotten that a lot from people. I think I wrote the book about my husband dying in the, my first year of widowhood, and then it came out seven days before lockdown in 2020. So, and that in itself was grief, you know, because nothing was going the way that I thought.

But then of course the world was in grief, so I was like, it wasn't like a plot against me to ruin my book tour, you know? It was actually a terrible thing. And everyone was at home focusing on things that they had lost. And I think that the book. The, even though it didn't work the way that I wanted it to, in terms of like sales or a chore, I had so many people say to me, you spoke to something that I, I didn't know that I needed until it happened.

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Leslie: Whether it was the physical loss of a loved one or their way of life, or their last year of school or their prom, um, it was everyone lost something and to, to sit in your house and say someone else gets it, I think was really. It was a privilege. I didn't know that I was gonna have to do that for people, so it was great to know that.

See, nothing 

Zibby: ever turns out the way you think it will with a book launch. 

Leslie: Never. And I've learned that. 

Zibby: Well, I am so sorry about your experience that you had to write a book about grief or that you chose to write a book about grief. This is a preamble to talk about your new book, but maybe give a little more of the story of what happened with your husband and what was behind that book? And it'll set more of a context for your new book. 

Leslie: Thank you. So Black Widow was about the, like I said, the first year of my widowhood. My husband Scott died. It'll be 10 years in July. And um, he, we've been married only for five and a half years. We'd known each other since high school.

Um. Met again later in our thirties, um, in Florida. We're from Baltimore. Um, and it just seemed like, oh, it's, I was, I'm a, I write about entertainment, so I speak of things in terms of sitcoms. So it felt like a sitcom. It's like he's this like fun Jewish dude and she's this quirky black lady and they meet each other again on Facebook and it's wild man.

Um, and. It was going that way. And they find this, you know, they wanna have a baby and they're not able to. And then they, a family is born into her. Um, a baby is born into her family and they find this little boy who's now not small and sitting back there and, uh, it's going really well. And then it went screech.

And so the book in a way, was my way of processing that. It was like therapy. I remember my, uh, therapist said, you should write a journal. And I said, oh, I am, I'm writing a book. And she was like, what? And people would say, well, it's okay if no one ever reads. It's like, no, this is a journal I wrote for everybody to read because I basically felt like books about grief seem to be like about the end.

Like, and this is how I. Was okay and this is how I solved it and this is how I healed without the messy stuff. When you're like eating, uh, I have a chapter called grief Cake or Eating Cake at two o'clock in the morning, and I talked about how I lived in Lake Worth, Florida. There was a dive bar and a pie shop right next to each other.

And I would visit them too often, like sometimes like, let me go back to the pie shop. And so no one writes about the messiness and the can I do this? And the scrolling on Twitter at the time and just like the weird stuff that goes through your mind, they write about and how we healed and now we are okay and I am okay, but there's that large swath in the middle I felt would be helpful to write about because how do you know you're gonna be okay if you don't acknowledge a crap you went through?

Right? So that's what that book was, was about. Um, and it does set up the novel has some similarities. The characters like go, oh, this sounds familiar, but then it goes in a completely weird. Situation. 'cause it's, it's my first fiction, so 

Zibby: Yes. Debut novel. Yeah. So exciting. Um, okay. Family and other calamities.

Can you tell us what this book is about? 

Leslie: This book is, and you're gonna go, wait, we just heard that it's about a, uh, black female journalist who writes entertainment, who moves to LA with her husband, who is a Jewish dude. Okay. He dies of, and it's like, wait a minute. No. But then something wacky happens. She has to come back to Baltimore, which is, like I said, where I'm from.

Two bury his ashes. And finds out that a long ago, former friend, now nemesis, who stole a story from her as a journalist years ago, is making a movie out of it. And she's the villain, duh, duh. Um, and so she has to deal with that. She has to deal with the fact that she'd been kind of avoiding her family for 30 years, um, including her sister who was the whistleblower based on the case that she wrote about, um, her mother who has decided to throw herself a birthday party.

'cause she's gonna never come to visit. So I'm throwing a party while you're here. Her brother-in-law who she was never close to, who she now needs to help her out and a mysterious r and b diva. Because why not? Because why not? She was a 

Zibby: great character. 

Leslie: Thank 

Zibby: you. I loved her. I, yeah, she was great. I mean, they were all great.

It starts off being on a plane and having someone from your past in the seat above you, in the seat right in front of you. And what do you do? Do you say the horrible things you wanna say? Do you keep it all inside? And I feel like that is such a, it, it's like a symbol for everything that comes next in this whole story.

Leslie: Well, because so much of it is about. Regret and how you told, how you've told the story of your past for 20 years, 10 years last week. Um, like, you know, you call your friend, you go, girl, I can't believe what she said to me. And he goes, well, that's not what she said to me. And it's like, well, it was true. And the further you get from that phone call, the further you get from that thing, you are very happy deciding it happened the way that you wanted it to.

So like Dawn, the character who was named after the Frankie Val song, um, because why not, um, is in the plane behind Joe. And so she flashback is thinking of all the things that she starts to tell the story in her brain. Like, how did this happen? How did we get here? And she's resisting kicking his chair, but she doesn't wanna get kicked out of first class.

Um, so she doesn't do that. And so she has these, this moment where she's like, it's like you regret, like what you didn't do, what you didn't say. And that's one of the reasons I don't have a lot of regret about things. 'cause everything's like butterfly effect. Like if you don't do this thing, does it affect this thing?

And if you don't do this thing and then do you wind up in a completely different life and a completely different person, which I think is part of what she thinks is that she's like, if I had just said something, if I hadn't made this mistake. In my twenties, would I be in a different place? But then would I not have wound up with the life I have, which I really like, but I still hate this guy and can I take his chair 

with nobody noticing?

So. 

Zibby: There is a long lasting tale to decisions we make in our twenties that really shouldn't be allowed because in your, in your, when you're in your twenties, what do you even really know? 

Leslie: Nothing. 

Zibby: I shouldn't say that. We just had someone earlier today who knows more than I do. So. 

Leslie: I did not know anything.

There's a writer, do you know nor Nora McInerney? 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Leslie: I had a video the other day, very short one, she said in a long landing series that I could call advice that I would've given myself to my 20 in my twenties that I wouldn't have taken. And I was like, yes. And she was basically, this one was about how no one who you have to chase is really in love with you.

And I was like, Ooh. It's like, how dare you? Because my friend who was here had lived with me through eight of those things, so she understands. She could tell you stories, but yeah, it's the kind of thing you look back, even though you. I regret mistakes only because I feel like if they hurt people or they caused me to waste time focusing on something that I shouldn't have focused on.

But then again, you go, but you've learned from those things. I, not, I, I made not the same mistakes. I made different mistakes. You know, we're also dumb, but usually not the same. Dumb. 

Zibby: True. I know. I feel like I waste too much time Rethinking. Well, what if this had gone? What if I had done it this way? What if this had happened?

And in truth, you make the best decisions at every moment in your life based on the information that you have at the time. And you can't beat yourself up 'cause you learn more now. 

Leslie: You really can't and you can't judge yourself to that young woman, girl really in her twenties or thirties did not have the information like you said.

And because. It's like there's a very old movie, Peggy Sue Got Married. 

Zibby: Oh, I loved that movie. Yes. Thank you. I always think about that movie. 

Leslie: I love that movie because Kathleen Turner is magically sent back to her high school days and she's like, do I marry Nicholas Cage? Who is a raging jerk? Do I actually talk to the nice quiet guy who's a rebel and he's wearing a jacket and he's awesome?

And so how will that affect my life. What what does that do? Um, although the best part of my favorite scene, 'cause I say it all the time to my kid, um, is when she realizes that her mother is standing up and doesn't eat. She's, her mother was serving all the food before she sits down and she goes, no, mom, sit with us.

And it's not only revolutionary to the, the brother and the dad, but to her mom. 'cause her mother had never considered, what if I take care of myself first? Which. Also, I think is a theme in both. I'm, I'll be 54 next week, and so I have a ..

Zibby: Happy birthday. 

Leslie: Thank you. And so I think a lot about that, about what are times where I could have stuck up for myself.

Mm. But I didn't know that I could have, I didn't know it was an option. The mom didn't know it was an option. I. Right. And so I think that when we look back in our lives, the only things I would change, you can't help you date. There were certain many people going, I wouldn't have dated that guy. Right? And then you learn from it.

But stuff like, did I learn to stick up for myself? Did I learn to go back? Could I go back? And even if I couldn't change it, would I tell that girl either don't date, that guy would say, maybe don't date him so long. Or maybe listen to your friends. I dunno. But you can't change it. 

Zibby: Yeah. The reason we keep talking about this is the, the crux of this novel is that a decision someone makes with the best information that they had changes the course of their life.

And how can you then revisit it decades later and make things better? Can you or can you not? Is it too long? Can you know? Do you get measured on the same standards as today? A really interesting question. 

Leslie: I think it is too, because so much has changed. Like my, my son is 11 and. If it takes two seconds for a video to load, he's like, oh my God, the world is ending.

And so I have to explain things like AOL and like, or like it could take, you could go brush your teeth and come back and maybe it still hadn't loaded. And so that's the information. He looks back at situations. I tell these stories ago, well, I dunno how I would've done that. It's like, because it just wasn't available.

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Leslie: So last time I was in the city,

Zibby: He has not gotten off his phone this whole time. Fyi. 

Leslie: He's right there. Hi. 

Zibby: Now he has, okay, there you go. 

Leslie: The last time I was in the city, I didn't have my phone because my, I dropped my phone in the recycling that morning, and, which is, once again, I'm a, I'm a whole sitcom.

Um, I dropped my phone and so my friend who was here, I had to meet her through series of like, messages sent from the train and like borrowing some lady's phone or whatever. And so you figure like. You figured it out. You know, you, it's not as easy as it was, but you figured out. So Dawn, and I don't wanna give too much away, but in the book, um, makes a decision in her twenties to share some information with someone she thinks is a friend to help her with the story she's writing.

And she doesn't under, she's not reading that he's actually a weasel and he's going to steal it from her. And so. She makes a completely flaky decision in the moment when she figures out that she's been lied to, that, you know, messes up a lot of stuff and then you go back and you go, like she says, if I hadn't made the decision and fled town with this guy who's a source that I shouldn't have been sleeping with, but I kind of did, who turned out to be 30 years later, her husband, who she loved and had a great marriage, and no one really talks about the other stuff and she's decided that it's okay.

Because it worked out okay until it's wide open. And so everyone's going, well, why did, why did you make the decision? And her family's like, and you left us here to hold the bag. And her sister particularly, and she has a younger journalist who's asking her questions like, well, why would you, that's really stupid.

You know? And so she has to confront all this stuff and make things right with her. Um, not only her. Her family and her husband's family, but a guy that she could have dated that kind of figures in the past and you see some, some flashbacks, how he was significant and if you have these choices. I love writing reality.

Like you watch movies, there's always like, there's three choices of guys, you know, and I'm like, is there really good? It's not always usually the the case, I think in, in real life, but in this thing she has choices and she makes them. And then you have to sort of reconcile those choices and be honest about.

How your version of events is not everyone's versions of events. So speaking of choices, why did you write a a novel? Because I thought it would be fun. Um, I'm a journalist and I write real stuff all the time. I don't columnist, so I write and first person often reviews or just like things off the top of my head sometimes very serious things.

But it's, it's true. It's based on fact. I researched things very well. I wrote a memoir. It was about me and even my own stuff, I had to call people and go, was that actually in 1980? Like, am I remembering this right? And I sent pages to people who were in it. So I could, not so much like tell me it's okay, but like, did this happen this way?

And most of the time it did. And were like, did I what? Okay. But I wanted to write a novel 'cause I thought it would be fun to be that girl that I was when I was, when you first start to write and you're creating stories about princesses and dragons and like little girls who solve crimes, I grew up in the seventies, so I was either Nancy Drew or Encyclopedia Brown, one or the other.

And so. That was fun and the story ended the way that you wanted it to, and I think I forgot how fun, much fun it was to. Create a thing that you could control. When I wrote my first book, someone who used to read my column at the Palm Beach Post said, I was very disappointed. At the end of your love story, I go, me too girl.

What? It's like, it wasn't a novel, sweetie. It was my life. And I wouldn't have, I would've killed him off either. That would not have been the ending that I would've chosen. So people are weird. Um, but it was really fun once to write a story, even though there is grief in the book. That maybe something good happens and maybe this person.

And she talks to her husband in her head and he's like, slow down girl. Stop. Okay, stop. So she's. Because you continue to talk to people and not like in a movie where the person is sitting there sort of seep to in their sweater on the, on the dresser or whatever, but you have conversations. I talked to Scott, you know, often when I'm about to do something dumb and he's like, girl, but it, I just was really neat to remember how much fun it was to create a whole world.

I am not a fantasy writer. I'm not gonna, like, I, I don't think I could create a whole like, universe or that's not sort of where my, oh, I could, but that's not really where my head is. But being able to like write something fun where you get to pick random characters and song references and what they're wearing and it's all something you made up is really fun. 

Zibby: By the way.

Um, Leslie's publisher has gifted you all copies of this book and they're out front after, so thank you so much for that. Very, very excited. 

Leslie: I'm very excited. 

Zibby: Oh my gosh. Was writing the novel is fun. I find it can be quite torturous sometimes. Writing a novel, sometimes fun. 

Leslie: I think sometimes it depends on what stage it is. 'cause like you just write it and then your editor will go, Bob, what if that person was a different gender? And that person will you go, huh? And then you go, is this fun? Am I just writing an order? You go, no, actually have fun with it. And you explore things. It was fun because I, I'm a journalist.

I'm used to editing. I'm used to people going, how about that? What about this? And have you considered it? And I've love feedback. But sometimes then you have to go, okay, this is what I really want it to be, and you can push back and say, no, this is what it's supposed to be. So it was fun in that if you just sat in the morning, I would take a day off or do it when my kid was asleep or do it if I had a time in a hotel where he was not around or whatever, and just write.

And just go for it. And you look up and it's three hours later and you go, oh, I was lost in it, man. You know? I was like really into it. It's the doing it by numbers. I think that would be hard if you had to do it. I mean, even the columns, even. I kinda let, just let myself go and you write it and then sometimes you get up and you get a drink of water and you come back, you watch a episode, an episode of Law and Order.

And then I will, I watch a Law and order, it's in my book. Um, and then you come back and just also sort of like figure out where sometimes read back and go, oh, that's what I was reading or eating or watching at that time. 'cause that's stuff that like came into my brain. It just, letting yourself go, letting myself go was the fun part.

Zibby: I feel like today should be sponsored by Law and Order. It's come up basically in every show. Boo Boo, as Law and Order does, if Scott could see you today. What would he think? What would you wanna tell him about how life has changed after his passing? 

Leslie: What a good question. I think he would be so excited for us, you know, 'cause he died in 2015, which is, you know, way before COVID.

COVID I think would've been an eye opener. No, I think for everybody, right? I think about like how he would've responded to it and how he would've dealt with us. 'cause he was like, I wanna live in Florida forever. And we moved in 2020, in the midst of everything back to Baltimore, and I think about would he be like, why are we in Baltimore?

Why? Why are we living in a place with no parking? Because I live like right downtown. But I think he would be so oof, he would be so pleased that, you know, I'm writing for another publication. He would be pleased that I, my voice is being heard. He would get the biggest kicking outta the kid back there. He would, I say all the time.

He would just eat 'em up with a spoon. He would. Probably ha be dressed head to toe in either Ravens or oral stuff right now. Um, his name is Brooks Robinson, named after the famous baseball player. My kid's name is Brooks Robinson. Streeter Sitz. Um, I think Scott would love that I was having a good time 'cause he always wanted me to have a good time.

He loved, like he would buy me weird stuff, like he'd go to the gas station Right before he died he bought me the saki from a gas station. 'cause it was funny and it was like, so. And it's in the, in the first book, uh, a couple days later, I'm like, I'm just gonna sit here at one o'clock in the, in the, in the afternoon and drink this gas station saki.

And people are like, no. It's like, just let me drink the saki. So I think he would enjoy that I would like, I like I got new boots and would go, yeah, I would've bought you those boots. You know? Um, he would have fun knowing that we were having fun and we are having a, a good, and that we're not. Um, we're sad, obviously, and I think a lot about, like I said, the relationship that they would've had, um, and where we would be, but he would want us not to be destroyed by it.

Um, I know that, and he would want it to, we would be happy that we traveled and that we had Disney passes for a long time, you know, and that we, uh, had like, we have like weird movie, uh. Marathons. Like we watched all of the jaws as even the bad 3D one and we watched all the Indiana Joneses, even the later ones which weren't so great and that I was like telling him about like baseball, and he plays baseball season starts this weekend and that we were just doing good.

That's what he would want. 

Zibby: I'm so glad. Thank you. Oh my gosh. And Scott was Jewish, and I've noticed you've been posting Matza ball soup on your feed. So have you adopted all of the customs? What is your relationship to judaism as a result?

Leslie: I, and I never converted. Um, but when, and I put this on my, um, Instagram feed.

I made mats, bowls. I started making them from scratch. Um, and I make them with sage. I, I hope that doesn't like. Because there's nothing bad that I'm not supposed to be doing it. 

Zibby: It's okay, we'll still allow it. 

Leslie: Yes. But I make them, um, I don't make them a lot 'cause I'm trying to eat less bread or whatever, but it was, you know, uh, Passover was coming.

I was like, I'm gonna make matsa ball soup and I. I'm eating less salt. It's like, oh, this sounds like no fun. But, so I make my own broth and I make my own Boolean. It's vegan. It's a whole thing. I don't use chick. I don't eat chicken. You're like, this sounds terrible. But, um, when he,.. 

Zibby: We'll not be distributing this recipe, 

Leslie: Do not, um, when he.

Right before he passed, I had some friends that were in my friend group that I was not really close to, but they invited us to go. They would always invite us over for the holidays. So when he died, they said, would you consider continuing to come to our house for, for Passover and for Hanukkah? And I was like, absolutely.

And so we did it and they, that's been five years, but I always call them. We always call each other. Um, and so I posted it and I sent them a copy of it and even, and I, the picture was great. You couldn't tell that there was not a lot of salt in it, so it looked like it tasted good. But, um, I had his Scott's family, his cousins particularly have adopted us in that like we went to um, his cousin's daughters bat mitzvah last year, and even though we are not Jewish, um, Brooks was able to be the kids that like, go and give the candy out or whatever. And we were, we were family, so we were at the family table and nobody said, who are those? Like who are those black people from Baltimore?

You're think, you know, we're like, what's up? Um, it was in Northern Virginia, so it was really like, kind of fancy and it was very cool, but they've been so embracing of, of us. And that's something that he would've have wanted. And so the tradit traditions, like the, the observations and the, you know, they would kind of remind me, remember the today is whatever I go.

Oh, that's right. It is, it's been the welcoming part of it, um, is what he would've loved. And I think that they have, they know that he would've wound up, but also they like me. And so it's not an obligation anymore. You know, it's something that, like, we went to a Ravens game with his cousins, which was really cool, and we got to just like hang out.

Um, and we have some plans to do some other stuff. Our, um, anniversary, our 15th anniversary would've been in February, and they had a big karaoke party. Um, and I invited them and weren't able to come, but they said, can you take video and can you like, send it to us? Like we were there. And it just, it's just so lovely.

And like so and so at that point when we first got married, people would go, what does his mother say? Does she like you? You know, like older Jewish ladies would ask me this, like, is she all right? And I was like, no, she loves me. It's great. Um, and so I'm, I love that that difference never. It didn't, it enhanced things, right?

It doesn't, it wasn't ever a once again sitcom. It wasn't like, oh, she's terrible and no one likes her, or, we don't understand these people. It was like we brought. The traditions, which I think in some ways family is important. I was raised Baptist, you know, and I'm obviously black. And so family and tradition and uh, history of people maybe being out to get you and all these things.

You know, there's a quote and it's another law and order quote, I'm sorry, um, that, uh, iced tea. Said that he and Richard Belzer got along 'cause he goes, I'm black, he's Jewish us and the Klans after us both. And I was like, yeah, man. And so Scott and I would say that and laugh hysterically. So yeah. 

Zibby: Gallows humor at its best.

So are you writing a new book? What is coming up for you? 

Leslie: I have two things that I'm working on. One was. I don't wanna be political. It was, it was said in Panama, it's like, well, maybe not Panama. 'cause maybe Americans wouldn't be going to Panama. And then I switched it to Canada and now maybe Americans wouldn't be going to Canada.

So now it's in New Orleans. Um, so it's a whole thing. It's, and it's the usual thing of family. And, you know, a woman's grandmother dies and she winds up inheriting her aunt, who no one likes, basically to take her to New Orleans to, to settle a score about a story that nobody knows about and she has to take her mother, who doesn't like the aunt either, and her daughter who would rather be anywhere else but on a trip in New Orleans with older people. And so, and we're going to New Orleans this summer, so it's like, where am I going that I could actually go? It's like, ah, and, and New Orleans is its own mystery, you know?

Zibby: Can't you write it off now? Work expense. There you go. 

Leslie: Yes, I am. And then I something. That I started working on that I was reminded by my friend. We were in a band. Um, we weren't that good. Um, in the nineties. We were backup singers who never learned the songs and we'd show up late and then we were shocked when they stopped telling us where rehearsal was.

Um, just shocked. And so I had this idea of, um, backup singers who come to a funeral of another band member and then someone gets killed. At the funeral and they're all at like some dude's cabin and the backup singers have to figure out how to solve the murder. And so, yes. It's funny. 

Zibby: You have a title, working title. 

Leslie: Um, bitsy and Wanda Solve a Thing?

Yes. That's, that's, it's a working title. I wanna say solve some. Mm. But it's probably, I can't put bad words in the, in the title, so, but yeah, it's, uh, Bitsy and Wanda. She doesn't love the, the name Bitsy, but we're working or work shopping. We're work shopping. 

Zibby: Well in progress. Last question. Do you have any advice for aspiring authors?

Leslie: I do. I think when people say they, that they're aspiring authors or writers, it's like if you write, you are a writer. You know, you may aspire to be a writer who gets paid or a writer that has a following, but I think that if you have words that you put to paper and you believe in them and you're constantly loving them and honing them and making sure that they make.

Makes sense to you, and then maybe you show it to somebody else and they really like it. Maybe you post a little bit of on Facebook or on Instagram or whatever. You are a writer and I just wanna encourage you, there's no magic to, there's a magic when it makes sense, but we're all. Writers love what they do, but we're not magic.

We're not like angels or gods or whatever. We're just people who figured out how to do it. And I wanna encourage people to just talk to that little girl or little boy that used to write about dragons and princesses and stuff. And you wouldn't have told her to stop, right? Or him to stop. You would tell them to keep going and write that drag and make them higher.

Make 'em purple, you know, make the trees polka dot whatever, you know? And so my advice is. Whatever your sky is, write that thing and then see how it goes. Love it. 

Zibby: Leslie, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for having Congratulations on becoming a debut novelist. Very exciting. And we are wishing you all the best.

Congrats. 

Leslie: Thank you so much.