Zibby speaks with debut author Lauren Aliza Green about THE WORLD AFTER ALICE, a gorgeous and gripping story of two estranged families brought together to celebrate an unexpected wedding. Twelve years after the stunning loss of sixteen-year-old Alice, her brother Benji and her best friend Morgan are getting married—unearthing secrets and reopening deep, painful wounds. Lauren discusses the novel’s exploration of grief, loss, and the lasting impact of suicide, particularly on teenagers. She shares her inspiration for the story, rooted in the rising mental health crisis, and then describes her writing process (including some unconventional habits), her love of Russian literature, and her next project—a modern-day adaptation of King Lear.

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome, Lauren. Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books to discuss The World After Alice. 

Lauren: Thanks. Thanks for having me. 

Zibby: I just took this book with me everywhere for the last week, and so the cover got totally squashed in the bottom of my bag, and I'm so sorry I'm holding it up now.

It's like, I've been like smoothing it and everything, but anyway, it's well worn and, you know, broken in, if you will. Can you please tell listeners what your book is about? 

Lauren: Sure. So The World After Alice takes place in the shadow of this terrible tragedy, which is the loss of 16 year old Alice Weil, and now, 12 years on, Alice's younger brother Benji and her former best friend Morgan surprise everybody with news that they plan to get married.

And for this, they summon together their two estranged families to the coast of Maine for a weekend of tension and love, as these old affairs get rekindled and these long buried secrets get exposed. Um, and ultimately the characters try to chart their way forward on a path that seems quite uncertain.

Zibby: Wow. Well, the wedding stuff At first glance, there's the fun, and the anticipation, and the stress, but there's so much pain left over from the loss, and a young loss, and died by suicide, and you know, all of it, it's painful, and You know, we get to a point in the book not to give things away where, you know, you've at least hear about a precipitate, one of the precipitating events or an earlier morning event and, you know, the, having to carry all that with you as like a parent.

Oh my gosh. Okay. So anyway, that was a rambling thing, but where did all this come from and where does the pain come from? 

Lauren: Sure, so it's a great question. I have been following the news for a long time and been watching the tidal wave of the mental health crisis that has come about specifically over the last 10 years, when the suicide rate has doubled specifically in teenage girls.

And I wanted a book that reflected the current times, the current issues, but also had a message at its heart of, well, okay, here's this issue. And then. What does it mean for the people who are reckoning with that? How do we reflect the difficulty of knowing the degree to which somebody we love is struggling, which is impossible.

And so that was, I guess, the kernel of what ultimately became this 

Zibby: book. Interesting. More of a ripped from the headlines type of thing than something from a personal experience. Connection of sorts. 

Lauren: Yeah, I would say so. Less. Hmm. Not exactly ripped from the headlines, but more what were the thoughts swirling through my head at the start of covid, you know, where, where were all of us at that time?

And so, and then the joy of getting to bring together a family for a wedding. Yes. At a time. And weddings weren't happening. 

Zibby: I don't know. Sometimes I'm like drawn to the dark, 

Lauren: you know, . So sorry to hone in on that. . No. Obviously I am as well. Yeah. 

Zibby: I was talking to a friend the other day and I was recommending a book or something like that.

And she's like, but is it one of the books I love where like something terrible happens and like, I'm going to cry cause I really want to cry. And I'm like, okay. 

Lauren: Oh yeah. Yeah. If you look at, I, when I was home, I was looking at the things that second grade me was writing and there's one about the sea drowning this person.

I don't know. I was definitely always drawn to the dark, even as a kid, so that resonates. 

Zibby: And now here we are, and you're writing about it, and I'm reading it, so it works out perfectly. Weddings obviously are a huge feeder of all sorts of emotion, right? It brings up everything. Have you, like, have you gotten married or did this happen with you or whatever?

Oh, yes. Yeah. So my, I have divorced parents and now this is my second marriage and it, you know, I couldn't believe the amount of Yeah, just emotion. My first wedding in particular, like, caused from every person involved on every side. And it's like, as a bride, you have to be a total therapist in the, in the middle of everything else.

Lauren: Yeah. It's ironic because weddings are, you know, people say it's the happiest of your life, whatever. But the reality is that they also are huge pressure points that I think can expose any of the cracks or the fissures in a family dynamic. They're just instantly there on display at an event that is both very public and also very, very private.

And that tension of the public and the private, what people are internally going through, but what they want to project is so compelling. 

Zibby: Yeah. And why they're drawn, I mean, in this book, they kept their relationship a secret for a long time from their families, given the past stuff that Oh my God, I'm so sorry.

I didn't sleep much last night. It's all clear in my head. It's just the words are not coming out. What I'm trying to say is because of the history of the two families, they have chosen to keep this relationship under the radar until this bigger event. you know, celebration and announcement. It seems sudden, but of course not sudden at all, because, you know, they're smart and they know, they know what, what will be unboxed, if you will.

Lauren: Yeah. Oh, I'm trying to think of how to reply to that, but exactly. They. Know that this news will not be met with the joy that they hope it will be met with. There's just far too many feelings at play for that to happen and so they want to protect the love that they've built while knowing that that very protection is also just making things worse and worse because the pressure continues to build and eventually the valve will have to be opened.

Zibby: And how did you pick the setting? 

Lauren: Ooh. So the book takes place, both parts of it take place in New York City and then parts in Maine, an imaginary coastal town, and I really wanted to play with that specific contrast. I think that when the characters are in New York City, they have a lot of buffer around them.

Which is always how I feel in the city, there's A million things happening, a million people about, and so one's energies, thoughts, etc. can be a bit diffused into the landscape. And you can really sort of trick yourself into moving through the world, through your day, without confronting whatever it is you're hiding.

And that, in the book, it's contrasted with Maine, which is this place of vast distances and a lot of, I mean, when I picture the parts of Maine, I'm thinking I see a very deep blue sea, not one that is overly calm. It should be said, there's a lot of rocky cliffs and that seemed like the perfect place to put these characters because suddenly, oh my God, the buildings have disappeared.

All they can actually do is look at one another and in looking at one another, are forced to reckon with exactly how much hurt they've wrought upon each other and all of the things that they've spent 12 years basically avoiding. 

Zibby: Yeah. I feel like there needs to be a map of Maine where all the books take place, right?

There's so many, there's so many books that I, I'm not as familiar with. I mean, I've been there, but like where each one, cause there've been a bunch in Maine and I, I don't know, I'm drawn to novels there as well for whatever reason. 

Lauren: Yeah. There's something very dramatic about it and almost. Not prehistoric.

That doesn't seem right, but there's gonna 

Zibby: I was going to say haunting in a way. 

Lauren: Yes, haunting. We'll go with that, right? 

Zibby: There's something about I don't know why because it's so cold in the morning or something 

Lauren: Yeah, it has this reputation and I it's such an interesting. I mean, I think of Elizabeth Stroud is capturing that The frigidness that exists in certain parts of New England.

And, and yet it is also this place that every year droves of people travel to in the summer months. And it also represented, at least in this book, the milieu of this family and their upper class lifestyle. And so it seemed like the right place that these two people would decide to marry. 

Zibby: And tell me about the professor plot, subplot thing, connection.

Lauren: Sure, sure. So the professor, for those who haven't read the book, the professor has a very complicated relationship with Alice that gets explored throughout the book and he himself is a very troubled character, I think it's safe to say, but I also have read a lot of books that make this particular dynamic quite black and white, and at least from what I've observed or in my experience, it is almost always takes place in the gray zone.

And so I didn't want it to be, I didn't want anyone in this book to be an obvious villain or hero because I don't think that's true to life. I wanted to craft a character who is very rightly struggling with his own feelings of insecurity, inadequacy, also perhaps narcissism, whatever it may be, and how that, how he reflects that on this young pupil who is quite desperate for somebody to reach out to her and extend a hand.

And it just so happens to be that the person who does this is maybe not the right person. figure that she needs at that moment in time. Interesting. 

Zibby: Well, I, I liked that. I, I thought it, I was surprised by, anyway, I liked that whole thing. So how did you become a writer? Like, where'd you come from? What's your life story?

Lauren: Okay. Um, I always wrote, I remember one summer when I was 16, I wrote a full manuscript that I then went and submitted. I mean, I, it was just very clear that that was a dream of mine, a goal of mine. Although I did spend most of my life in theater training and had gone to conservatory for acting. And very quickly realized that that was not my path.

And so I spent a few years trying to figure out, well, what is it that I want to do? What brings me joy? And I really credit, I would say the professors in my life with steering me and saying, you should pursue this. You have something here and I always loved to read. That's for sure. And I studied Russian literature in college and was just so compelled by the soul that, let's say, Tolstoy or Dostoevsky is able to write on the page, just that bearing sense.

And then I went to grad school for fiction and poetry, and that's where the first draft of this book was written. 

Zibby: Wow. Amazing. So how easy or hard was it to write this book? 

Lauren: Well, it's hard. It's hard to judge whether something is easy or hard, you know, there are different scales of difficulty. I would say in life, not to get too philosophical about it, but you know, is it hard for me to go out there and dig a hole over and over and over every day?

Sure. That's one type of labor, and so I find whatever difficulty presented itself in this, in the writing of this book was actually an enjoyable difficulty, which is to say that any struggles that I came upon were quite fun to tackle. Even when I felt like I was, you know, bashing my head against a wall to figure out the structure or the voices, it was all the type of challenge that I really love to tackle.

Zibby: Awesome. 

And how do you feel about the mom? 

Lauren: Ooh, in what sense? 

Zibby: Like, I feel like she's a complicated character. She's not always so nice. She has a difficult relationship, but I feel like there's a level of compassion that we feel for her when we learn even more. So is she supposed to be a sympathetic character in the end or not?

Lauren: I would hope that if I've done my job, all the characters are, in one way or another, sympathetic. That doesn't mean we always love them or we agree with their decisions, but hopefully their decisions are at least legible to the reader. Um, and we can understand why Linny pushes Alice, So hard. And it's because that was how she was she had been pushed because maybe then her own shot at greatness would have come on to her.

And so I think that once, once that psychology is reckoned with, hopefully, hopefully the reader will at least understand her as a person. Whether or not they like her, you know? I love that. Are you working on another book? I am. I am working on a book. It's a modern day King Lear and it follows three grown siblings as they fight for their father's multi million dollar art collection.

Yeah. Both in the courts and outside of the courts. 

Zibby: That's cool. What kind of art does he collect? 

Lauren: A lot of different, it's quite a varied collection. He started it, started collecting when he was young and so over time, and he had this amazing eye for art pieces. So over time, those pieces have managed to accrue.

Value at an insane rate, essentially. And so the collection is worth a lot. And he announces quite early on that he plans to leave the entire collection to his youngest daughter. Hence the fight. Do you have a title? I have a working title. It's called The Golds right now. Okay. Which is The Siblings, but we'll see if that ends up sticking.

Zibby: Interesting. I love it. Where do you like to write? There at your desk where I'm looking at you? 

Lauren: Never. Actually, this is the first time in my life that I have sat at this desk. It ends up, if I showed it to you, it ends up becoming a home for you know, all sorts of just random items that I can't explain.

So no never at the desk. I, this is funny. I, I am not someone who enjoys routine necessarily, so I like to go to new places and write there if I can. I find that I do my best work when I don't know the environment around me, at least it just forces me back into my own head, whereas if I'm here I can do, I could potter about the house finding a million things to do, and so I'll usually be at a library or a coffee shop or even on the subway, just anywhere unfamiliar.

In a way. Unfamiliar enough that it can send me in terms. 

Zibby: Yeah, I love that. And what do you like to do? I mean, this sounds like a hokey question. What do you like to do when you're not writing? But I mean, like, what, when you're not at work on your fiction, what are you doing? 

Lauren: I am probably playing music. I'm I'm also working on a musical right now.

So not a novel, but I like to write music and compose. And so I'm probably at the piano or playing guitar or whatever, or singing ideally and then other than that, I, I love to walk, which is, you know, I think so much of the pleasure in the world can be experienced just on our two feet. So I enjoy walking specifically if I can be abroad or wherever it may be interacting with the world and its people, that's my happy place.

Zibby: That's an interesting way to say that. I love that. As opposed to, yeah, I love that. Nice. And do you have authors who you read and you're like, this is the way this, or your favorite authors or a book you're like, oh, I wish I'd written that. 

Lauren: Oh my gosh. So many books, so many books that I say that about. I think, I, you know, I've gone to this reading a few months ago and the author said that everything we read becomes our thumbprint because it's unique to us.

No one else in the world has read everything we've read and in the order that we've read it and digested it in the same way and I say that to say that I feel in some way that every single book I read becomes part of what gets output. But to answer. In terms of the authors who have been most influential, I am a huge Elena Ferrante fan.

I think she just has it nailed and has written the perfect, the perfect series. So I always find myself coming back to Ferrante when I'm stuck or I need inspiration or I just need a dose of life because that's actually what Ferrante gives you. It's like, you know, just an IV drip of Drama and friendship and love and conflict and all of the things.

Zibby: Excellent. Amazing. What kind of food do you like? 

Lauren: Food. 

Zibby: I don't know. 

Lauren: Yeah. No, uh, I'm a vegan, so I stick to a plant based diet but within that, I'm pretty, I enjoy anything I can eat, which I think to a lot of people would say, you know, not that much, but fruits and vegetables and whatnot. What type of food do you like?

Zibby: I know. Sorry. I don't even know why I asked that. I think, I think I asked that because I'm hungry.

Lauren: But I am curious, what type of food do you like? 

Zibby: Oh, I don't know. Lately, I've had this massive pizza craving. I've been eating more pizza in the last year. Maybe it means I don't have enough calcium or something, you know? Actually, that's probably what's going on now that I say it out loud. In fact, I'm forgetting to take the pill, like the vitamins for months and now I'm getting old.

So do you make your own pizza ever? I have. I'm actually not bad at the crust. You know, I like that whole thing. You know, the process. How about you? 

Lauren: Yeah. I wouldn't say I'm a great cook, but I have been making focaccia bread recently. I feel like I came a little late to the bread making craze, but I think pizza might be the next thing on my list.

Zibby: Yeah. I mean, I don't make the dough. I buy the dough in those little bags. Okay, okay. And then, and then I stretch it out with my hands and I like, and then I put the topics. Actually, what I really like to do is make like a whole little pizza bar for the kids and then like, you know, then they chop it up and they, we all make our own pizzas.

Then we have like a couple in the oven at once and we compare pizzas and that's like one of my favorite summer things. And actually it's summer now, so I should, uh, we should do that this weekend maybe. We'll see. Thank you for bringing it up. I'll, I'll tag you on my, on my pizzas, if and when I make them again.

So what advice do you have for aspiring authors? 

Lauren: Advice for aspiring authors. I would say, I would quote Twyla Tharp actually, who said, make creativity your habit. I think we can spend a lot of time waiting for the muse to visit us with her magic wand, but you could spend your whole life waiting if that's the case.

So if I would tell anybody who wants to do this or who does this to force yourself to sit down every day and do it, you know, cause, I guess, what are you waiting for, is my big point. And the more you do it, the better you get, and the more the material stays alive in your head. So make creativity your habit.

Zibby: I like that. And what about for those wrestling with suicide, having a child who is in this situation or loves somebody who has fought with depression or any of the mental health, big, big topics that you, you talk about that are inherent in the book's plot and all of that. 

Lauren: Yeah, I'd say nobody is alone in these struggles, even though it can sometimes feel that way.

No one is alone. Reach out to others around you, to the community. Find people who can Make you feel seen and heard is a really big one and I'm sorry, I guess is my is my feeling and I'm here and having spent the last few years doing a ton of research into this and speaking to a ton of people. All I can say is that something that everybody in some way or another has Come face to face with, and I don't think that's a comfort really, but maybe the comfort is in knowing that we're all human at the end of the day.

And it's an uphill battle, sometimes more uphill, steeper hill for some people, but an uphill battle for everybody. 

Zibby: I love that. Thank you. Well, thank you for this book and congratulations, and I'm looking forward to meeting you soon. 

Lauren: Thanks, Zibby. 

Zibby: Okay. 

Lauren: Enjoy your day. 

Zibby: All right. Bye.