Kendall Rhodes, Meredith Littas & Meghan Rienks, THE BREAK-UP DIET
Zibby is joined by Kendall Rhodes, Meredith Littas, and Meghan Rienks— three women involved with the new Fictionz app and the recent narrative audio series, The Break-up Diet, which Meredith wrote during the early days of the Covid lockdown. The four chat about their astrological signs and which character from Sex and the City they are most like, as well as why Fictionz’s mission is to highlight women-centered stories and how they’ve designed their shows to be intimate and digestible.
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Transcript:
Zibby Owens: Welcome, ladies, to “Moms Don’t Have Time to Read Books.” I am joined today by Meredith Littas, Meghan Rienks — I’m probably mispronouncing everything — and Kendall Rhodes. You can now repronounce your names. Tell everybody who you are and why we’re all on the Zoom together to talk about The Breakup Diet and Fictionz. Who wants to go first?
Meredith Littas: I’ll go first. I’m Meredith Littas. I’m a creator. I’m a writer and director on Fictionz. I love it. I wrote The Breakup Diet, Yellow Wallpaper, and a few others. I’m a screenwriter. I’m in the middle of writing a couple memoirs. I’m just super excited to be here. Thank you for having us.
Zibby: You’re in the middle of writing a couple memoirs? You don’t hear that all the time.
Meredith: Yeah, a series of them. The Breakup Diet initially started — I wanted it to be a memoir. Then it turned into the audio series. Then I also wrote a proposal for a different memoir. They’re both comedy, but the other one has a little more traumedy, so trauma and comedy in it.
Meghan Rienks: I love that term. I’ve never heard of that.
Zibby: I’ve never heard of it either.
Meghan: That’s my entire brand. That’s literally my entire brand.
Zibby: Let’s loop back at the end, Meredith, because I have a publishing company now, too, called Zibby Books. We publish fiction and memoir. If you want to talk about it, love to hear more about your memoirs and all of that. Always pitching here for my other businesses. Who’s next? Jump in.
Kendall Rhodes: Megan, do you want to go?
Meghan: Sure, I’ll go next. My name’s Meghan Rienks. I am a content creator, actress. I host two podcasts. I wrote a book. I don’t even know what else I do. Apparently, traumedy is my sense of humor, which now I understand. Thank you for the term. I got to play Rose in The Breakup Diet, which I really loved.
Zibby: By the way, Meghan, your name sounded so familiar. I obviously knew of your work. I went through my emails, and I had been pitched your memoir. I had said, yes, I want to do it. Then I said, let’s meet up in LA. I’m there all the time. We have a place out there. We’re there all the time. They said sure. Then the pandemic hit. We should pick that up.
Meghan: Press was definitely a very odd thing. I think I did nine podcasts in a row. Then I was like, well, now I don’t have to leave my house. This is nice for social anxiety. It was wild.
Zibby: Okay, Kendall.
Kendall: Hi, I’m Kendall Rhodes. I am a talent manager. I also helped cocreate Fictionz, the app. That’s it, really. I don’t really know.
Female Voice: You’re also a mom. You have dogs.
Kendall: What?
Female Voice: I said you’re also a mom. You have dogs.
Kendall: Yes, I am a mother.
Female Voice: You like books.
Kendall: I’m obsessed with your background, Zibby. I’m kind of entranced by — I want a close-up of all how you did that. That’s so cool.
Zibby: It goes all the way around the room.
Female Voice: I need an Architectural Digest home tour of the library. That’s beautiful. That is stunning.
Zibby: Thank you.
Kendall: Look at mine. It’s a hack job behind me.
Zibby: No, stop it.
Kendall: It’s a plant and some books. I got to do better. Anyway, so yes, I a mom. I have a thirteen-year-old daughter. I have two dogs. That’s it, really.
Zibby: I have two fourteen-year-olds. I have fourteen-year-old twins, by the way, a boy and a girl. I have a seven and an eight-year-old.
Kendall: Lucky.
Zibby: And a lab who is sleeping over there. Anyway, that’s my story. Wait, can we start by talking about Fictionz, the app? Which is such a cool idea. Tell me about how you started it, and especially coming from a place of talent management. Where did this come from? How did you launch it? Where do you see it going? I’m totally into it.
Kendall: It goes way back. Meghan and I had talked about doing female-forward podcasts a long time ago. We had this whole idea. Do you remember Her Pod? It started with that. I think the idea wasn’t fully formed yet in terms of, what kind of content would we want to do? There’s so many podcasts right now. Every personality has a podcast. Every YouTuber now has a podcast. It became, wait, how can I have a community that’s a little separate from that, not just a one-off? Then I heard some narrative podcast. I was like, oh, my god, I love this medium because it’s more in my realm of making TV or making movies or narratives and stories. My background in film was always optioning books and turning them into movies. That was my kind of my sweet spot, which I really liked because I liked working with the authors. I was like, there’s so many great short stories that don’t get developed, that get overlooked by all these great authors. That’s where I started. I approached a bunch of authors. They were like, oh, cool, it’s like a teleplay. I’ve had a hard time trying to explain what it is we’re doing. We change it a lot. We’ll say audio narratives. We’ll say narrative podcasts. Basically, it’s like a teleplay, I guess, with actors dramatizing a story.
Then we do it in a short, serialized way. Because of my time as a mom — I feel like other people can relate. I don’t always have two hours to sit down and listen to a book or a two-hour podcast. Twenty minutes here or fifteen minutes here, it’s more fun for me because I can continue it in my head and then check back in later. We’re playing with the different formats in the links, but that’s where it is. Basically, it’s based on books, novels, and some original ideas if they’re really good, like Meredith’s. Hers was basically a pilot that we adapted. It was already an IP. That’s where our sweet spot is. Then also, it’s female authors and women’s stories, all women. That’s also really important to me because I find a lot of the number-one books or a lot of the things that dominate Hollywood are white-male-driven content. It’s just the way it is. It is hard to find that kind of content. It’s getting better, but it’s not really great, still. The idea of bringing more women — we aren’t just sidekicks. Even though James Patterson’s the number-one author, there’s so many great authors that maybe don’t get that publicity that he gets. Their stories are just so good and imaginative. I’m trying to put more light onto that area.
Zibby: It’s so great.
Kendall: I hope that was articulate.
Zibby: That was great. What are some of the books and authors you worked with in the past to option that you’re really excited about?
Kendall: I’m really excited about working with Laurie Stolarz. Do you know her? She wrote Blue is for Nightmares and Jane Anonymous and Bleed. We’re doing Bleed first.
Zibby: I saw that.
Kendall: Meghan is one of the stars in Bleed too. She plays Mearl, which is a really cool character. I really like that. Also, do you know Cidinha da Silva? She’s a big Brazilian writer. She’s written like twenty books. She’s amazing. We did three of her short stories. Her short stories are really beautiful because they’re like fables. That was really fun. Do you know The Rock Eaters, that book?
Zibby: Now I’m just sounding like a moron. I do know of a lot of books, but I’m just not knowing of these. I’m sorry.
Kendall: We optioned a short story called Yaiza from The Rock Eaters. That’s a really great story about two teen girls. One is very wealthy. One is not wealthy. They play each other in tennis. It’s a really good story because they bond over that. They’re very competitive. They’re both fourteen. I love that story. I don’t want to give away the ending or anything. It’s really well-written. We just did From the Neck Up with Aliya Whiteley. She’s a really great writer. She writes in every genre. She wrote Skyward Inn and The Loosening Skin. She also wrote From the Neck Up, which is a really imaginative, out-there story about a girl who finds a head in her bed and becomes friends with it and nurtures it. It grows into this beautiful plant that produces flowers that she’s able to make a living from. It’s a really cool story. I could go on and on. Those are just some highlights.
Zibby: I know we’ll talk about The Breakup Diet, but one last question. When you’re optioning short stories, do you option the whole collection, like if it’s all in a book?
Kendall: Only a few times they wanted me to option the whole book. Honestly, only maybe one or two, I feel, will adapt to a series and also will adapt — we don’t want to just read an audiobook. Some short stories are just one-person narrative. That’s harder. We want dialogue. We want action. We want things to happen. We want sounds. When we look for it, we look for that. Usually, it’s one or two from a collection. It’s rare to find a whole book. For instance, Bleed, it’s ten short stories about ten different teenagers, kind of like that, but they put it out as a book. For us, all ten worked, so we optioned the whole book.
Zibby: Got it. Very interesting. I love this model. Meredith, talk about The Breakup Diet and what happened to you that was autobiographical that inspired it.
Meredith: It was really fun. I was adapting a dark book during COVID. I was getting really depressed. It was triggering some events that had happened to me. I just wanted to write something really funny. I hadn’t gone into comedy yet. I was just thinking, what if I still worked for that boss at that talent agency in COVID? She would totally make me work even though I’d be furloughed. I’d be rolling calls and then working with the clients. Then what if that ex-boyfriend was living with me? He would totally be a squatter and never leave and takes dates. I just started writing. I knew I wanted to do the memoir kind of like how I broke up with myself to become who I am today. Then I was like, I really want to use these stories that happened. I just started writing the pilot. It kind of just flew out of me. I like the character, which Meghan did such a great job of playing. It’s really me. It happens to be Meghan, apparently, so we’re the same person. I love that. I used to be a bad feminist. I would be like, I’m a feminist. Then I would not be. It’s just making fun of myself. I was always Miranda Hobbes. I’m a Sex and the City fanatic. Every time I took a quiz, I would pray for Carrie. I would be Miranda. Every time, I get that character. Even when my group of friends are like, “Who are we?” I’m Miranda for Halloween. I just went with that. All of it is pretty true except for placing it in COVID. It was really fun to revisit.
Zibby: It’s always great to see a chapter called Am I Miranda Hobbes? Just having Miranda Hobbes as a reference point, you know you’re already in conversation with the person writing it.
Meredith: Yes, exactly. Miranda’s great. I have to come to learn that Miranda is one of the best people to be compared to. Aside from Cynthia Nixon being amazing, she was always so sure of herself, strong, and then helped people no matter what. I came to find that her spirit was actually the best to be compared to.
Zibby: Meghan and Kendall, which Sex and the City person are you?
Meghan: I’m a Leo, so I’m a little bit obsessed with myself. In that way, I guess I’m kind of like Carrie. That’s a very embarrassing thing to admit. Growing up is realizing you want to be Miranda, not Carrie. I would say that I am probably, in my friend group, I am most definitely the Samantha. I am the one who says things and my friends are like, oh, my god, stop, this is so embarrassing. I’m like, what do you mean? I’m very much that, I think.
Kendall: Wait, who was the other one?
Meghan: I can tell you who you are. You’re Charlotte, without a doubt, like, oh, don’t say that. It is very that.
Kendall: I got Charlotte on Facebook once. I took a test.
Meghan: You’re, without a doubt, Charlotte.
Kendall: I was like, no, I’m not. I was super upset. Then I was like, oh, my god, she would do that. She would be upset.
Zibby: I’m a Leo too, Meghan.
Meghan: When’s your birthdayZibby: August 22nd. When’s yours?
Meghan: August 4th. August Leos are superior.
Zibby: Oh, good. I didn’t know that.
Meghan: We are.
Zibby: That’s a thing now, okay. Sometimes I feel inadequate because I’m approaching the Virgo cutoff, but it’s okay. I’m going to own the Leo.
Meghan: I desperately wish I had some Virgo in my chart, or really, earth to kind of keep me grounded, but I don’t. I’m not that.
Kendall: I would love Virgo too. I feel like they’re so organized. Meredith, what are you?
Meredith: I’m an Aires.
Kendall: Oh, that’s right. You’re Aires.
Meredith: With a little bit of Taurus, I believe.
Zibby: Kendall, what are you? These are random questions I don’t usually ask, but okay.
Kendall: I’m a Libra.
Zibby: A Libra, interesting.
Kendall: I would love that Virgo energy.
Female Voice: Me too.
Zibby: Sometimes I wonder — I was born early. Does that mean I’m really a Virgo? Should I have been born — does it matter what your due date really was?
Female Voice: I don’t think so.
Female Voice: I was late.
Female Voice: Some people say your moon is more important than your sun.
Female Voice: That’s who you are when you’re alone or by yourself, which I don’t like to talk about because I’m a Pisces moon, which is just like, inside, you are sad and inadequate. I’m like, okay, don’t need to tell me.
Female Voice: One time, I told you what my moon was and you were like, oh, I’m so sorry.
Female Voice: Yeah, probably.
Female Voice: I said I was a Capricorn moon. You were like, oh, I’m really sorry for that.
Female Voice: As someone who’s engaged to a Capricorn, you guys are hard on yourselves.
Zibby: Wait, Meghan, you started out by saying your whole brand is traumedy. Explain.
Meghan: I think that I am a definitely a laugh at myself, self-deprecating kind of humor person. Through the content that I’ve made over the years and then through my book and then through my movie and all of that stuff, there is this kind of through line of finding humor through all of these things that you go through. There’s this thing of, it breeds resilience, or whatever. For sure, struggle breeds resilience, but it also breeds humor. I joke that I’m the funniest one of my friends. I’m like, that’s because you all had it so easy. I also had transition lens in middle school. I had to develop a good personality and be funny so people would like me. I’ve always just been that person. On my podcast, we do a lot of advice and helping people and doing things like that. I always think it’s best to come from a place where you are relating to someone and being like, okay, I can totally understand what you’re going through. Let me unpack some of the stuff that I’ve been through that I relate to with this. Now I feel like we can relate to each other better. We’ve all been through that stuff. I think once we start talking about it, it’s a lot easier to be like, oh, my gosh, I relate to you. I relate to you.
Zibby: Yes, I do some of that. I saw your podcast, “Don’t Blame Me,” is so super popular. I do a podcast with a British sex expert named Tracey Cox. It’s called “SexTok with Zibby and Tracey.” We answer these anonymously sourced sex questions. She answers. I kind of blush and ask them from the pile. It reminded me of your show and this instinct to try to help and whatever. Yours, of course, is amazing.
Meghan: That sounds fun.
Zibby: Check it out. Back to Fictionz and The Breakup Diet, Meghan, what was it like embodying a character and knowing it would just be audio? How did it feel to prep for this role? How did you get into it? Did you record it as if it was an audiobook in a studio? Is there a difference between audio and podcast? All that sound stuff.
Meghan: Honestly, I think there is a pretty distinct difference between — I recorded my own audiobook. There is a difference between recording an audiobook, recording a podcast, and doing a narrative podcast because you are acting. I very much related to the character when I read it. Immediately, I was like, if anybody else does this, I will be so upset. This is me. I have to do this. Meredith and I have such a similar voice. The internal monologue of the character, I was like, oh, this is in my head. I completely understand that. It is very different than prepping for any other kind of role because it is, yes, totally just audio. I was focused a lot more on drinking a lot of water, having tea nearby. You are just paying much more attention to your voice and how that sounds. When you’re acting on film, it’s a lot of, okay, I’m not going to read into anything too much because I want to be natural and do all of that kind of stuff. You have to look at the subtext to things a little bit differently when it’s just audio to give the listener an indicator that it’s not written on your face. They kind of have to hear it.
I really liked it. It was really, really fun. It is such a cool take on what we think of when you think of audiobooks and that stuff. I personally find these so much more engaging and all-encompassing. For some of them, you have a lot of action-y noises. I recorded one last week. Me and the director, Karen, spent fifteen or twenty minutes of her being like, so can you just do some heavy breathing here? I’m like, okay, with my post-COVID lungs, this will be a fun time. We’re doing all of this other stuff. I’m so excited to see how it’s interwoven into that, which you don’t usually hear in audiobooks. You also don’t get to really, necessarily, be a part of that process as an actor for film and television. You’ll do ADR. You’ll come in and be like, now make efforts because you’re fighting a zombie. You’re like, okay. You’re in a sound booth. Here, I was in my — it’s our guest room that’s turned into my podcast room during the pandemic. I’m just making those noises into my microphone. It feels like you’re there much more from the very beginning of it. You can kind of envision how it’s going to come together.
Zibby: Very interesting. I’m also interested in how you’ve grown your whole brand. It’s so interesting on IMDB now. It’s not just film and TV. It’s your personal stuff. It’s just as important. It’s just as relevant. It takes a really astute businessperson to market yourself that way. Also, doing jobs like this and passion projects and all things you do but also crafting your own role in the world, it’s really neat. All of you are doing that in one way or another with establishing this amazing company, writing the works that you want, adapting, all of it, to changing audio-scape, if you will.
Meghan: How I started all of this was purely luck and accident, which I don’t think is something that you can really do anymore. I started making YouTube videos in my bedroom, recorded on my computer, because I got mono and I was stuck at home over the summer. I was super bored. It was before it was cool to be on the internet and talking about your life and doing things like that, which is a theme of my life. I didn’t really know what I was doing, nor did I do a lot of research of what other people were doing. I just got on there and was very much my own personality. I realized, oh, people don’t swear. People aren’t making dirty jokes. They aren’t doing any of this stuff. I was like, oh, well, already started doing that. I really came very personality-first. It just stuck. I was lucky enough that I had this side hobby. I was like, I’m kind of like Hannah Montana. I go to high school. Then I come home. I record a video on my computer of, what’s in my school bookbag? Just kept continuing and doing it. I’ve done it for — I can’t do math — eleven years, maybe almost twelve years. It’s weird. It’s wild.
Zibby: It’s awesome. This is why my little kids want to be YouTubers when they grow up. This is the be all, end all. Kendall, what about identifying this market opportunity with Fictionz and going into that?
Kendall: How did it start? I think it was just me wanting more content that was female-centered. There was that and also, when I heard narrative podcasts, how I really liked that too and thought, wow, I wonder if this is something that other people will like, narrative podcasts. Will that be a trend? I don’t know. I’m hoping. I wrote a business plan. Then an investor came on board. That was how we were able to get it started and build the app.
Zibby: Amazing. Meredith, not to neglect you up there in the Zoom box, how about adapting to this new medium of writing? What does that entail? What considerations do you have to keep in mind when you’re writing for audio versus for film or TV?
Meredith: It’s totally different. You have to think that all visual descriptions, people are not going to hear. You have to look through those descriptions and see how you can make them audio to get your point across. Sometimes in writing for TV or film, you don’t want to be really boring and expositional with your dialogue. I felt the same way. That was the hardest part for me because I do not do that in my screenwriting. I did not want to do that in the audio series. It’s coming up with a different, unique way with sound and dialogue to convey, this is what’s happening. Then the listener doesn’t get confused. For example, something that Meghan does on the audio series is she has a drug trip. She was so awesome at it. I directed that one too. How do you get someone to sound like they’re on a trip so that people listening hear that? In a film, you would have psychedelic — certain camera movements and things. It was matching the music to what Meghan was doing, which made it perfect.
Zibby: What do you think it is about audio? Why? Why is this so popular right now? Why podcasts? Why audio? Why have we turned to this, do you think? Why is it such a big deal?
Meredith: I think it’s easy. You listen to it. You can get immersed into the world. Like Kendall said, you don’t have to sit down and read a book for hours. You don’t have to sit down and watch a movie. I think Breakup Diet — correct me if I’m wrong — is thirty-five minutes all together. Everyone has little bits of time where they can listen to something. I think that it’s been proven to be strong especially in the entertainment industry. Homecoming was an audio series before. There are so many other examples. Now a lot of celebrities are turning to doing podcasts. One celebrity recently said to my fiancé, the audio series is now the pilot. That’s how things are getting made because consumers want that.
Zibby: It was great. Each chapter is only about five minutes. I’m like, this is totally doable.
Female Voice: Also, the intimacy of podcasts and even narrative podcasts, there’s something about — there’s certain movies, like a Paul Greengrass movie, for instance, where he shoots everything with a camera, and it’s like you’re in his head or you’re in that person’s head. It’s a first-person narrative. When you’re listening to a podcast, it’s the same kind of experience because it’s in your head. It’s through your ears and your head. There’s no visual stimulation. You’re actually immediately there. I think there’s some connection in the brain. I think that’s why a lot of celebrities are making podcasts. They’re trying to connect with their audiences and their fans and whatever and build that relationship. It’s more of an intimate relationship than just a post like, hey. I think it’s the same with storytelling. There’s something about sitting around the campfire telling stories that people still do and still have visceral reactions to that’s not just sitting back and watching on a movie screen. There’s something more immersive about it. I think there’s something cool there. I don’t know, I’ve never done a study, but it would be fun to do a —
Zibby: — I know. Mind you, I’m asking you this on a podcast, which is ridiculous. Obviously, I think about audio a lot. Why do I listen? Why do I record? This is my whole life now, is all these podcasts. I don’t know. I find it endlessly fascinating.
Female Voice: It’s really interesting because Zoom became such a thing during COVID. Before, we would all just do conference calls. Nobody wanted to do Zoom. It was like, no, I’m not doing Zoom. I’ll do a conference call. Now it’s the opposite. It’s like, what do you mean you’re not Zoom? We’re going to do a conference call?
Zibby: I know. It’s offensive.
Female Voice: Yeah, it’s offensive, but I think people can get drained from that visual stimulation. They just want to go back to talking. If it’s just going to be an intellectual banter or whatever, maybe phone’s easier because you don’t have all the distraction of the Zoom and the visual. It could be something like that with podcasts too. You can just tune in. You don’t have to deal with all the watching the actor and this and understanding — that’s a whole different experience, but it’s a good one too. I like that too.
Zibby: Last question for you guys. After a breakup or a really bad day, what is the diet that you would like to be on nonstop? What foods are your go-to foods for your own breakup diet? Nobody?
Female Voice: Breaking up? I have to remember.
Zibby: If you’re having a bad day. If you’re having a terrible day, what do you like to eat?
Female Voice: Mac and cheese. I feel better after that. A little bit of mac and cheese, I always feel better.
Female Voice: It’s a good one. I would probably say Mexican food. That’s my go-to. It’s my go-to on my birthday. It’s also my go-to if something good happens or something bad happens. There’s one specific — I’m not going to blow — actually, whatever. If anyone’s in LA, Gloria’s in Culver City, fantastic, specifically. I used to live right down the street. Gloria specifically knows me. We go once a week. We get pick-up. They know our order. There’s something really comforting about that aspect of it too. Even if I’m not in LA, Mexican food is the comfort on either end.
Female Voice: Mexican food is my favorite food too. If I go out, that’s what I like to do.
Female Voice: I agree. Mexican food is my favorite, too, if I’m going out.
Female Voice: We’re so LA.
Female Voice: We’re so basic, all of us. My god.
Female Voice: It’s true. In LA, we get the best Mexican food. It’s really good here.
Female Voice: We do. I went to Salt Lake City for a project. They took me to — I’m obsessed with Diners, Drive-Ins, and Dives. Yes, Meghan. They took me to a Mexican restaurant that he went to. I was like, what is this? It’s because we have such good Mexican food that this is probably really great in Salt Lake City. No shade to the place. I was like, everyone needs to come to California because it’s the best. I am very different. I like cake or something sweet, or a cookie. It’s either a chocolate chip cookie or SusieCakes’ red velvet cake.
Zibby: SusieCakes’ marble cake is my favorite food on the planet, I think.
Female Voice: That one is good.
Zibby: It’s so good. Every so often, there’s a chocolate chip. You don’t know when it’s going to come. It’s so exciting.
Female Voice: Their frosting’s addicting.
Female Voice: Because it’s got buttercream, right, Meghan?
Meghan: Yeah, it’s buttercream.
Female Voice: One of her many talents is the fact that she can bake these insane masterpieces. She taught me about buttercream. I didn’t even know that was an ingredient.
Meghan: There’s lots of different kinds. The rumor with SusieCakes is they put buttercream in their batter too. That’s why it’s so moist. There’s a secret thing. Within the baking community, everyone knows SusieCakes has a thing. It’s like SpongeBob and the Krabby Patty. There is the secret recipe for it. The speculation is that there is literal buttercream in the cakes.
Female Voice: That would make sense. It does taste like that. It does.
Female Voice: Who knows?
Zibby: I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about SusieCakes, so this is a very welcome piece of information. Thank you.
Female Voice: Thank you.
Female Voice: Thank you for having us.
Zibby: Nice to meet you all.
Female Voice: Bye. Good seeing everybody.
Female Voice: Nice to meet you.
Zibby: Buh-bye.
