Keeonna Harris, MAINLINE MAMA

Keeonna Harris, MAINLINE MAMA

Zibby is joined by writer, activist, prison abolitionist, and mother of five, Keeonna Harris, to discuss her tender and triumphant new memoir, MAINLINE MAMA, which chronicles her journey as a young Black teen mom with a partner behind bars—from learning to navigate the exhausting American carceral system to transforming herself into an advocate for women like her. In fact, she describes her memoir as “a love letter to women, specifically Black girls and women who’ve been forced into relationships with the carceral system.” With raw honesty, she discusses the impact of sexual violence, finding strength through community and therapy, the importance of checking in with our kids’ hearts (not just their homework), and her ongoing work connecting incarceration to health disparities.

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome, Keeonna.

Thanks so much for coming on to talk about Mainline Mama a memoir. 

Keeonna: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here today. 

Zibby: Thank you for sharing your really powerful story. This is completely transformative in so many ways. All the things that you have gone through that you write about so beautifully.

Who you advocate for. It's really impressive. And even just navigating any relationship, like when somebody who's I don't like how your hair looks, correct. Please just fix your hair. Like we can all relate even in the most absurd different correct circumstances, there are so many threads that we all share.

Keeonna: Correct, correct. It's such a, like a universal experience in that sense. 

Zibby: Yeah. Tell everybody what your book is about. 

Keeonna: Yeah, so Mainline Mama for me is a love letter to women specifically black girls and women who've been forced into relationships with Carceral system, whether that's being incarcerated, formerly incarcerated, or women like me who are mainline mamas that are just trying to, keep a connection to a loved one.

Can you explain, you do in the book, but explain what a Mainline mama is. A mainline mama is a woman who has to navigate prison to keep connection to a loved one who's also a caregiver for her partner, her children, biological or not her community. Okay, keep going. Sorry. So No, no worries. And so I call mainline mama actually my girl coming of age story, right?

Because it's detailing my experiences, raising my children with their then incarcerated parents. And during that time and trying to navigate the Carceral system and trying to create home for us, I built community with other women. Discovered the best kind of love, which is self-love. And what I ultimately realized is that all the home that I was searching through, everyone else was already within myself.

Zibby: That's beautiful. So you had a baby at 14 from the very first time you had sex. 

Keeonna: Correct. 

Zibby: This is fragility off the charts. 

Keeonna: Correct. 

Zibby: There are people who would pay a lot of money for this. And I joke I shouldn't, you were very obviously surprised your family was a little bit less than pleased, particularly with who the guy was.

Your Bert tried to help find Jason a better job, get him off the streets. At the time he was, dealing drugs in a gang and you were like, but I'm gonna be a mom. Take us back to that time in your life. 

Keeonna: Yeah. It was such, it was a whirlwind. Because my whole life just exploded. Like the double life of Keanu was exposed in an instant, right?

And so for myself, I've always been an overachiever. I've always known I'm going to college, I'm gonna be an obstetrician. I'm gonna do all these great things. My life's gonna be amazing until I'm pregnant. And so for me, it was not only, it didn't just change my life, it changed everyone else's life around me.

And so I had to quickly become an adult. I had to change my plans, and at the time that was very. Crushing for me, but I had to change my plans. And so what I like to think about it now, the dreams were never crushed. They were just deferred, right? Because I ended up doing everything that I wanted to do in life, but it was just a very difficult time to navigate and find my new place for myself and within my family.

Zibby: So people say I wonder what it would be like what would it be like to be a teenager with their own child when teenagers. Are still children, correct? I have a couple of them. And me too. So how did you learn how to navigate that, particularly without tons of familiar support, tons of resources at your disposal?

Like I know there were times when you were quite depressed, which you write about in the book. How did you get through those moments? 

Keeonna: I've, I'm resilient. I know it sounds so cliche. 

Zibby: No, absolutely no. 

Keeonna: I'm relentless as far as if I'm determined to do something, I'm gonna do it, and me being pregnant just fueled a fire in me to succeed.

Even further because now I have this person looking up at me, and so I, I was pushed outta school. They didn't tell me like, you need to leave. But I was encouraged, to go to another school. So I was so lucky to find a school that was, just, happened to be down the street from where I was living, which I had no idea existed.

And it was a school for pregnant girls. And it was the best gift ever because I didn't have to hide who I was. I didn't have to feel ashamed because everyone looked like me. And as as far as electives are concerned, we would just take turns watching each other's children in the daycare. So it was a beautiful gift.

So I was able to finish high school. I even graduated a year early, so I was able to do all those things that I didn't even know existed in my neighborhood. 

Zibby: And now you have five kids. 

Keeonna: Correct. 

Zibby: Oh my gosh, I have four kids. I thought that was a lot. What is your age spread? 

Keeonna: It is, my oldest is 29.

I have 26. 15, eight and six. 

Zibby: Oh my gosh. Wow. 

Keeonna: Yeah. 

Zibby: So what do your kids think about this book? Mainline Mama? 

Keeonna: It's so funny because I, that was one of the things I was really excited for the book. So my children, especially my older children, can really know who I am as a person. Because as your kids.

And I feel like all of us at one time, we think our parents are perfect. We put them up on these pedestals and almost like they're not people. So of course there was times when my older children were teenagers and they thought I was just doing things to ruin their lives. And now they can see the story behind this, the method to the madness and what was going on with me at that time and realizing that I'm a person too.

So they came to my reading here in Seattle and they were just like. Wow. And I could just see their expressions from the stage and they were just completely blown away. And it was really touching because they came up to me afterwards and they were just like, wow, mom, like you've been through a lot of stuff and like you're still here.

Like you're amazing. And so it made me, it touched me so deeply. 

Zibby: Aw. 

Keeonna: And my 15-year-old is reading it currently and it's really sweet because he's the age that I was. So it's really nice to have these conversations with him as well, because he's dealing with, figuring out who he is as a person and navigating relationships with friends and things like that.

So it is now given him like, oh, my mom was a teenager too. She had to also reconcile, hard choices in which way to go in life. 

Zibby: Wow. I remember the first time I read my diarrhea out loud to my kids when they were my age, and I was like, this is so cool. It's like a time warp, like you're meeting the young me and here you are.

Keeonna: Yeah. 

Zibby: Crazy. You, I know you spoke about your resilience, but there's a section of the book where, while Jason is still in prison because he had a 22 year sentence, you were also sexually assaulted. It's I'm like, what is going on? This poor woman, everything is happening to her. Tell me about that and even how his response is not what you were looking for.

Keeonna: Correct. That was a really hard time. For me because, no one ever thinks anything like that is gonna happen to them. No one thinks that, and I happen to know the person that committed this crime against me. So I was hurt on a number of levels. Because it's someone who I previously trusted and I thought, I would never imagine that they would do this kind of thing to me.

And of course, at the time, me and Jason were married and this person is my best friend, so I'm a mess. And I'm telling him. And so I'm going back and forth with my mind as far as should I tell him, should I not? Because I'm embarrassed, I don't wanna talk about it. I just wanna go get in the bed and lay down and never get up.

And so I decide to tell him, because he's my best friend and I'm looking for comfort, right? And I'm also thinking about my health and his health. I'm thinking about all the things that you think about. And so his reaction was just, it was heartbreaking. I remember it like it was yesterday. It was really heartbreaking for me.

Because it definitely wasn't what I expected, and so after that time, that's when I really started going on my own discovery of Keeonna and what Keeonna needs and what Keeonna wants and what boundaries need to be in place for Keeonna. And I started going to therapy. That was, that's what made me go to therapy.

And therapy just opened up my whole world and really uncovering everything that I had stuffed down or either didn't have time to process because I was, I had to become an adult at 15. 

Zibby: Can you share any more about what happened? You didn't really go into depth in the book and you totally don't have to, but.

Keeonna: I don't wanna go a lot into detail 'cause it's something I really don't like to talk about a lot. But it was a situation where we were at a mutual acquaintance house and they were having a party and everyone was having a good time and I happened to, I was not in a position to drive, so I stayed over at a friend's house, thought I was doing the responsible thing and I woke up to a person. In my room that had no business being there. 

Zibby: Ugh. I'm really sorry. I'm really sorry. Oh my gosh. And then to have to go home and take care of kids. It's just, there's a lot. It's a lot.

It's a lot. It's a lot. I'm sorry for prying. It's as if you weren't open enough in this book. I have to ask you more. You've already given the reader and me. So much so thank you. It just made me curious 'cause like I feel like you've been so forthcoming and anyway, I'm just so rooting for you.

I just, thank you. Just wanted to hear, tell me about the work that you're doing now. 'cause you're helping so many other people. 

Keeonna: Yeah. The work that I'm doing now, I'm currently at the University of Washington, which I love and we are currently. Looking, leaning into anti-war anti-racist justice work as far as the connection between mass incarceration and health.

Because I'm not sure if but I'm just gonna say most folks who come home from prison or jail, they do not have the best health outcomes when they come home. And so we are trying to lean into research to uncover what can be done so that folks, while they're incarcerated. Are not, getting diseases are falling prey or, to, to death prematurely.

And also when they come home, why is that happening? So we're focusing on the healthcare aspect. 

Zibby: What are some of the most common things that are happening to formerly incarcerated? People like what are some common diseases or what are you seeing? 

Keeonna: High blood pressure, diabetes. These are things because the diet is not good.

We all know the effects of stress on a body. Especially for someone who's been in for a long time. And so for the quote unquote folks that are the. On living on the outside. These are things that we can manage. We go to the doctor, we take our, pill once a day and we're normally fine.

We could change things with diet, but when you're locked away and you don't have a lot of choices of things, or you have to wait months to get an appointment or things of that nature, it is not cut and dry. 

And so these health issues, they linger and they fester into worse things. And so now you have it where this person is being okay, it's time for you to go, and then you're home for maybe a year or two, and then you hear about someone dying.

Zibby: Oh, wow. That's amazing activism. It's wonderful to be taking care of other people and you made such a strong, you told such a strong story about how it feels to love someone who is essentially controlled by the state. 

Keeonna: Yes. 

Zibby: And that you don't have any, you feel like you don't have any rights, and that even your own wedding that you had to just.

The up to the whim of everyone else, was there, correct your back showing or not. And you have to learn all the tricks. And yet at the end of the day, there's nothing you can do, which is really hard. 

Keeonna: Correct. 

Zibby: Obviously. 

Keeonna: Correct. And I say it all the time in a jokingly way. It's like at that time the prison was my real boy.

That's who I was in a real relationship with.

Because they had, it was me and the prison negotiating. It wasn't me and my then partner, it was like everything had to be involved with the prison. 

Zibby: Do you have any parenting advice? 

Keeonna: Oh, yes I do. I think, and these are just lessons I've also learned in myself in my journey, I think it's very important to check in with your kids.

And I think, in this life, everyone's busy. We're on our phones, we're working, our kids are doing 50 million activities, but really check in on them. Check in and see how their heart is doing. How's your heart? Not just, like, how was school? Things like that. But really check in with them.

And also I've learned too, when I am making these big decisions for my family, of course I consider my children, but I also, I wanna hear their opinion. Or I clarify things or if I make a decision, I used to just be very much this decision is made and that's it, but let me give you some clarity on why this is happening.

So it takes a lot of the guesswork out. There's no, underlying resentment that doesn't need to be there. Everyone's on the same page about why we're moving in this direction. 

Zibby: Very good advice. Thank you for that. Amazing. Are you doing any more writing? 

Keeonna: Yes, I am doing a number of things. I'm working on the second book, which I'm very excited about.

It is. Looking like it's gonna be a matrilineal memoir of relationships, tracing connections between health and family. Because I really want this next book to ins explore the legacies that are passed down that we don't talk about. Which are the legacies of silence and sadness and kind of the loss of oneself which are unfortunately, trauma is usually f, forced on women and that manifest its illness as we can see all these autoimmune diseases and things like that. 'cause doctors, they take a family history of recurring ailments. But I want the next book to explore how our bodies are connected to relationships.

So I'm working on the next book, and because I'm such a dreamer, I would love to see Mainline Mama adapted. I would just love it. Yeah. So that's what I'm working on at this at this time. 

Zibby: Amazing. Keeonna, thank you so much. Thank you for sharing your story and being so inspiring and sharing your resilience and your wisdom and the desire, the essentialness of self-love throughout all of it.

So.. 

Keeonna: Thank you so much for having me. I wish we could do it in person. I saw you online and it looked really cool, but 

Zibby: Oh, I know. I only asked you. We were around here. I organized it a week ahead. 

Keeonna: Cool. Oh, sorry. 

Zibby: Sorry. If I come to, you're in Washington State somewhere or? 

Keeonna: Yeah, I'm in Seattle. 

Zibby: Yeah. So if I come to Seattle, let's do it on stage.

Keeonna: Sound good? Okay. 

Zibby: Okay. Okay. All right. Thanks so much. 

Keeonna: Thank you. 

Zibby: Bye-Bye. 

Keeonna: Bye.

Keeonna Harris, MAINLINE MAMA

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