Zibby welcomes debut author Kate Hash to discuss GRACIE HARRIS IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION, a resplendent, moving love story that unfolds for tenderhearted Gracie—a mom of two and recent widow—as she navigates grief, reinvention, and second chances. The two dive into Kate’s unexpected journey to becoming a published author, the personal experiences that informed her portrayal of loss, and the book’s layered exploration of motherhood, fame, and healing. They also chat about the novel’s charming small-town setting, the meta experience of writing about writing, and the freedom found in starting over.

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome Kate. Thanks for coming on Totally Booked to talk about Gracie Harris Is Under Construction, a novel. Congrats.

Kate: Thank you. So happy to be here. 

Zibby: So this is so crazy. You came on our retreat in Palm Springs. Yeah. And happened to mention, you're like, oh yeah, actually I wrote a book and actually the book is coming out.

And I was like, oh, that's so nice for you. You're like, no, it's like coming out in a big way from Dutton and da da da and WME. And I was like, oh, okay. So I couldn't wait to read it. And now I read it and I was like, oh my gosh, I love your book. Love, love, love, love. 

Kate: Thank you. 

Zibby: Um, and you were just like bopping along like any other recruiter at one of our events. Um, not that, not to say there's anything wrong with the retreaters, but just like you're a fabulous writer. Oh my gosh. 

Kate: Oh my goodness. Thank you so much. That means so much to me. 

Zibby: Okay. Tell everybody what your book is about. 

Kate: Oh my goodness. So my novel tells the story of Gracie Harris. She is a 40-year-old mother of two whose entire existence is kind of rocked first by the unexpected and tragic death of her husband, Ben.

And then by this new version of her life that's sort quickly emerges when she writes a modern love essay and it goes completely viral. And she finds accidental internet fame, which I think happens, uh, a lot to people these days. And she sort of has to navigate that fame in tandem with her very real, very visceral grief over this huge sudden loss that she's had.

And readers meet Gracie a little over a year after this has all happened when she has sort of dealt with everything and nothing as it relates to her grief and she's had real life to contend with and I think a lot of parents who read this novel will relate to, you know, she's raising her kids, she's doing her real job, she's writing this column that she has and she's just trying to keep the train on the tracks and she gets this great opportunity for a summer where she can sort of put real life to the side and try out something new. And that is really what the novel's about, is her figuring out who she is and who she can be. And there's a great love story mixed in all of it. I think that really propels her forward.

It's this second chance that love that makes her really work through some of the things that she hasn't quite dealt with yet. And I just, I wanted to write a book that really explores the way love can break you and also sort of rebuild you. And I think that's hopefully what I've done with, with this book.

Zibby: Wow. Well this is also so meta to be interviewing you about this because such a big part of the book is Gracie. Preparing for interviews with Josh as he asks her all these questions and she answers them, which PS is a really clever device in fiction, right? To get to hear a backstory without saying it.

But anyway, so she's prepping the whole time with interview questions and I'm like, wait. But now this is one of those interviews that Gracie would do at noon, and now I'm the interviewer and you're representing Gracie. I don't know. Very cool. 

Kate: I know it is. It's so meta. I was like, oh my gosh. I hope. 'cause of course the opening scene is she sort of just melts down, right?

Zibby: Yes. Yeah. 

Kate: And I was like, I just have to make sure this doesn't happen at any point. So I don't go viral when I do an, when I do an interview. 

Zibby: No, no, no. You're not going to. And in truth, she felt like she did a horrible job. But there was a lot of humanity in that moment. And a lot of people are relating to the meltdown that she had because yeah, of course I was like looking, trying to read through the lines of the acknowledgements.

'Cause I was like. You must have lost your husband, but it looks like you didn't, but you must have. Did you what? To, how are you tapping into this? What loss have you had? Because you write about grief in a way that is so real that, where is this coming from? 

Kate: Oh my goodness. So anyone who's read the book asks me like a flavor of that question, and it's. On one hand it's really flattering 'cause I haven't had a loss of this magnitude. What I've had is lots of like little loss. So like I've lost a parent. I've have, I've lost weight. 

Zibby: That's not a little loss. 

Kate: I know. Well, compared to Grace.

Zibby: You lost a parent. 

Kate: I know. And I just think it's ta, what I wanted to do is tap into. Like all the things that get said and unsaid when you have grief, right? Because with grief, I always feel like there's this, this universality to it. Like everyone who walks the planet is going to feel some measure of grief at some point, and maybe even a cataclysmic loss. And I think there's just an innate understanding we all have with grief of a CER in a certain way, but grief is also extremely personal and very individualized.

And I, and I wanted to make sure in this novel, I tapped into that because it's the reason why some PE you can be in the same house as someone who's had the same loss as you and have wildly different experiences with grief, right? Because there are these universal elements, these very personal elements.

And I wanted to tap into that. You know, I lost my, my father seven years ago and just seeing the way that everyone in the family experienced it very differently, and a lot of it was based on the relationship they had with him. It's just so, so interesting to me. And I think grief. It's something Josh says later in the book too, grief isn't just losing people through death.

Like there are a lot of ways we experience grief in life. Mm-hmm. And so I've also seen a lot of that. Mm-hmm. Like non death related grief, like through, you know, friends who have been through really hard things, really hard divorces, really just a lot of really tough stuff that I think tends to happen in midlife.

And so just tapping into that as well. 

Zibby: Oh my gosh. I also, by the way, thought you were like 25 years old, so.

Kate: Oh my goodness. Thank you. We're best friends now. I'm gonna just call it. 

Zibby: I know. I'm like, wait, I could have sworn that girl was so young on the retreat. But anyway. Oh my gosh. Okay, so in addition to everything Gracie's going through, she is also writing a memoir.

And you are writing a novel. So just to add another meta level, and she is making time for writing. She's going to the coffee shop talk, chatting with Sonny, like she's trying to get her words in. She's doing publicity for the book. So there is very much, uh, an insider writer thing, but yet this is your debut novel. So how are you getting all of that in here? 

Kate: Um, I was just sort of imagining what it would be like, and it's been very interesting for me now to see the parts where I was like, oh, yeah, I, I totally got that right. Oh, and this happens a little differently, or at least it is for me, right. In this experience, I, I think also because I had never been through it before, I actually think that really.

Was helpful to me in imagining what it would be like for for Gracie, right? Because she's going through it all for the first time. It's sort of this new adventure for her, and she has her agent handholding her through it all, like sort of shepherding her through the process. But it was also imagining, because my writing process is different.

Than Gracie's. Right? So trying to think through like what it would be like if I had an endless summer just to write, or if I sort of got to reorient my mind if I was trying to tell my own story as opposed to a fictional story too. Because I think one thing Gracie struggles with. Is just how much of herself to share.

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Kate: Um, she wants to be authentic and she wants to share what's really happening in her life and what she's been through. But you can, the reader knows early on that she's also deeply trying to protect herself as well. 

Zibby: And she has the essays every two weeks. I don't know. I feel like.

Kate: Like I was overwhelmed. Like I'm writing it because I need her to feel overwhelmed. Right. Because I, I think I want people to relate to that overwhelm as well because I, every mom I know is operating at like, you know, their one additional thing from just cracking, right? And so I really wanted to like bring that to the table as well.

Zibby: Oh my gosh. Well. You have so accurately captured this life. The, the fears, the the how. You have to bring in your own emotions. And sometimes Gracie has to like make time for that, even if it's not in the plan, like the, the things that seep in and when and, and all of that. And then you also do such a lovely job of introducing us to this fictitious town of canopy and small town life and what that's like.

Encouraging others to take an interest in other people, which is also a really beautiful thing in the book. And I know it's Josh encouraging Gracie, but it's really you, Kate, encouraging the reader to like, ask a question of the woman in the coffee shop and, and teaching us all the art of small talk. Talk a little bit about that.

Kate: Oh my goodness. So I love small towns and I think that small towns can get just a bad reputation, right? Oh, nothing happens in small towns. And Canopy is this amalgamation of probably five or six different very real places that exist in Western North Carolina. I didn't wanna set the novel somewhere real.

I wanted to, you know, be able to create. My own little town, but those places are real and the people are just so friendly. I feel like I engage on a human level when I'm in places like that far more than I ever do when I'm in like a, a big city or even here in Chapel Hill where I'm, you know, sitting today.

I think there's just a, a friendliness and innate curiosity when you get to a smaller town, and I just wanted to capture that magic because. I feel like when I go spend times and place time and places like that, that I take a deep breath. I sort of get this big exhale and I think a lot of people would convey that as well.

But I wanted the town to feel. Just some, like, I wanted you to want to go there, be like, I need to go.

Zibby: I need to go and I need to buy a house there and to take a renovation project. I don't need Josh, but you know, I need the, I need the reboot of that experience and. She's learned so much about herself and it's, it's literally and emotionally a rebuilding.

For her. It's a, you know, I love your title now it has a a thousand meanings, but when like taking this old house and restoring it and making it her own and all of that, it just has so many. Layers. Um, and the house itself, I feel like I could visualize when she's like, I think this wall could use wallpaper. I'm like, yes, it could. I was thinking the same thing. 

Kate: Yeah. The sense that she, for the first time in a long time is essentially making her own decisions. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Kate: And, and I think that is. That is a really unique feeling. Like even as I was writing it, I was like, what would it feel like if I didn't have someone to like bounce my ideas off of all the time, because I've been married for, for like 15 years.

Um, you know, what would it, what would it be like? And just, I love the house. I love the idea that also the said, even though it's known to her. The setting is fresh. It allows her to step outside of her comfort zone because for her, you know, of course I've said it in Chapel Hill, like she lives in Chapel Hill.

That has been her familiar territory, but it's also been a cocoon, right? She's been protected there in a way that's different, I think, than how she's sort of protected in canop. 

Zibby: And there's also, which you have the kids feel as well, sometimes you don't wanna be the one known as the person who's grieving that.

You don't want everyone to meet you with a compassionate look on a day that maybe you just wanna run in and grab a muffin and you don't wanna think about it or talk about it. You just wanna live. And sometimes when you've had a very public loss. And written or, and or written about it very publicly, which Gracie has done.

You don't have the luxury to just be anonymous. Like talk a little bit about that and when you had the loss of your dad, and I'm so sorry to have to hear that. Is that something you felt like in your town was like, where is that? Tell me about that. 

Kate: Oh my gosh. I remember feeling that in the workplace.

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Kate: So like, it's kind of like everyone knows the worst thing that's happened to you and it's just this. Unspoken thing, or people stumble and they'll say things and you know, everyone has good intentions. And then before you know it, you're sort of like managing the emotions of other people. It's like, oh, no, no, it's okay.

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Kate: I'm doing well and you're not right, because you're just, you're falling apart on the inside. You're trying to go through life. And so I wanted to capture that and imagine what it would be like. For Gracie, which is sort of this like next level loss. You know, she's lost her husband, but then I really love that you've pointed out the kids' experience too, right?

Because I think as a mom you're imagining like her what, what she needs to to deal with is always gonna be second to her kids. Like you can just feel that in the novel. Like she has prioritized what her kids need to to process and go through and she just. Loves them so much. Right. And so, you know, her grief is always second to it, but just this idea that the, that her hometown or where she lives has protected her. But it's also in some ways suffocated her. Like you can feel it like..

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Kate: She's just ready to go somewhere new and I think is hesitant at first in Canopy for too many people. To know her too well. Right. Because when she has that air of anonymity at first Yeah. They sort of know, she know her as like the grief lady.

Right? Because of course James has like helped make sure everyone know who she is, but it's different. It's not personal. And I think there's a freedom in that that really helps her. There's, there's something to be said for just getting somewhere new where you can say, oh, I've recently, you know, lost someone. But there's no connection to the someone, right? And there's no connection to you. And I think that's, that's given her at least a chance for a deep breath. 

Zibby: So wait, Kate, take me back in your own life. Like how did you become a writer? Where did this come from? Now I'm like self-conscious because some of the interviewers, you're like, they jumped around so much. I'm like, do I jump around in my questions? I don't know. Like, are these really like non-sequitur? I have to be careful. But anyway. Oh, that's so funny. Tell me, tell me about your life and how you became an author. 

Kate: Oh goodness. So I've sort of been a writer my whole life. It's just looked a little different. So when I was younger, so high school, college, I was really into journalism. So my, my degree is in journalism and for the longest time I wanted to be a journalist. And then I got to college and Washington, DC and I sort of looked around and I realized that even at the time in, you know, 2002, journalism was like a prestige career and I had grown up.

In a blue collar environment. I had seen people sort of, you know, work paycheck to paycheck and I was like, oh, I need to make sure I can pay bills in my life. So I took my journalism degree and went into marketing and public relations, which then turned into it. Like that jump was with digital marketing and then just.

Had this, I've had this really wonderful career in the IT space, but I've never stopped writing throughout. So for four of those years, um, my husband and I lived abroad in Italy and I had a pretty widely read blog that I wrote while we were there. And that was just more like sharing our experiences and then even my job, like I still.

Communicate a lot, even though it's an IT job. So it's always been there. But I will say writing a novel was not like a bucket list thing for me. The idea sort of forced itself on me. Um, like Gracie's story just came to me and it percolated in my brain for months before I was. Like, oh, I think, I think I should try to write something.

And so that's how we got here. But I've always, you know, I have training in writing, so when I finally decided to try it, it wasn't like I was starting from zero, but I had also never tried to write anything over a short story before. 

Zibby: Hmm. Well then that all makes sense too, because of all the journalists in the book and her writing in the New York Times and this, did you have to get approval from the New York Times, by the way, for this fictitious comment?

Kate: Um, I think we did. And actually initially I had it as, I mean, anyone who's ever read Modern Love would've been like, oh, that's just a placeholder for Modern Love. And I remember my editor saying, is this supposed to be modern love in the New York Times? And I was like, yeah. And she said, I think we can use this.

Zibby: Oh. 

Kate: Um, and so we were able to, yeah. Which I think is so much better because I do think modern love is such a cultural touchpoint. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Kate: That it instantly for anyone who regularly or even occasionally reads it, when you learn, that's what Gracie wrote. It sort of just clicks in your mind. I think you have a better picture of the significance of what she's written.

Zibby: Hmm. And I also love that Gracie is. Unapologetically attractive. Like she has a moment where she's like, and I knew my butt looked really good, and I'm like, you know what, Bravo, because nobody ever, not, I shouldn't say nobody ever, it's so rare to find a someone who feels great about their body as a protagonist of a novel. Tell me about that. 

Kate: Yeah, so part of that. Was, it was really important to me that it was clear to the reader that her marriage with Ben was very healthy. Like she had a great marriage. Right. And I think part of that is she sort of. Grown up with him. Right. And I mean, so I met my husband in college. Right?

And like your, your bodies change, right? Your, your appearances change. She's had children, but she has in a healthy marriage where she has felt so validated. Right. And loved, and I think she has a confidence that comes from having a great partner, and I really wanted to, to capture that. So when she goes, when she starts dating again, right.

This, she's out there and she's getting dates like she's going, even though she hates it at first. Right. You know, she's having this experience of, of dating and meeting people and trying to decide like, what is her type? Right? Like, because she's her, her type is not the same as it was when she was. You know, 18 years old.

Right. And yeah, just I think I struggle when I read books and there's like a lot of body hatred, right? It's just a struggle point for me. And I wanted, Gracie is broken in a lot of ways. I needed her to have confidence in, in this other area of her life. Right. Like, it, it just felt like if she was gonna be broken, mind, body, and spirit, it was gonna be a lot. Right. 

Zibby: Well, now I wanna read her memoir. 

Kate: Yeah. 

Zibby: Are you gonna write that as a, like, could you have possibly, I mean, you kind of did already, like by writing this novel, it's um, you know, but. I feel like now you need to like write the fictitious memoir in a way. 

Kate: I know it's, um, there was a discussion with my editor at one point of, should we include the whole prologue? So this idea that she writes this letter. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. Yep. 

Kate: And I have it written. So my editor said to me, you know, it'll be a great exercise, right? 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Kate: Like, you'll get a lot of her. Internal experience, it'll help. 

Zibby: Yep. 

Kate: It'll help with some of the edits we were working on, but I really love the idea of the reader imagining it.

Zibby: That's true. Because you, 

because we basically know, I mean, we basically have, I know, I know. It just still oh my. 

Kate: I know. But you wanna read it and, and again, it's so important because by the end of the book, if you wanna read her memoir, then I feel like I've done a good job of. Making you understand why everyone loves her, right? Why everyone's reading her essays, why she's got so many pre-orders of her book, right? Because she just seems so engaging and wonderful. I

Zibby: love Gracie. I wanna be friends with Gracie. I am a big fan and I want you to now write another novel about her. So what are, are you going to, what's the plan? 

Kate: So I'm writing a second book. It's a complete standalone, so.

Zibby: Okay. 

Kate: For now. And I've thought about it, I was like, you know, I just feel like there could be so much more to Gracie and Josh for, or even a bit of before, right? 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Kate: Of Gracie's life. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Kate: For sure. But no, I'm writing a second novel. I'm in developmental edits right now. I love writing books. The editing stage is so much harder for me. 

Zibby: Yeah, it's terrible. It's, it's the worst. Oh my gosh. I hate it so much. Yeah. 

Kate: But I'm working my way through it. I was just telling my husband yesterday, I was like, I'm just in the really sticky part of it. And you get through that, right? Like you, you just, you just have to power your way through it. But the second novel, I'm in love with this concept too. I think you're gonna love the characters...

Zibby: ..And you say anything. 

Kate: Yeah. So it is. It is a story. It's a platonic love story and a romantic love story. The platonic love story is between, it's an intergenerational love story about two women who meet each other on a plane.

It's like the opposite of a meet. Cute. It's a meet terrible. And you know this 38-year-old woman and this 72-year-old woman just get in a fight on a plane and developed this accidental friendship as a result, and it, the main character Andy, becomes deeply wrapped up in this woman's life, falls in love with one of her children.

But it's very complicated. It's all very complicated with the love story. Both love stories, actually. The platonic one and the romantic one, and it's, um. I love intergenerational stories where we're just so caught up in how we do or don't get along. And I also just love stories writing them and reading them of women at a crossroads, like women who are at a really important inflection point. 'Cause I think we're our most creative, um, selves when we're sort of forced to those points. So I think any book I write is gonna. Is gonna be a woman at a crossroads for sure. 

Zibby: Love it. Oh my gosh. Well, Gracie, thank you so much, Gracie. Thank you so much, Kate, thank you so much too. I'm really like thanking Gracie, but I am a huge fan and I can't wait for this book. When is this book coming out? I actually..

Kate: July 29th. 

Zibby: July 29th. Oh my gosh. Okay. 

Kate: So soon. 

Zibby: So we have time to uh, well, I'll delete this part because I should have known that. But anyway, I'm so excited for you in the book and I will be cheering you. All summer long. 

Kate: Oh, thank you. 

Zibby: Congrats. 

Kate: You know, it feels, it feels crazy that we're finally here, what, two months? Two months away? Two months from tomorrow, so I can't believe it. 

Zibby: Yay. Oh my gosh. 

Kate: I just wanna thank you. You know, it's, you know, in the beginning you mentioned the reading retreat and I just remember have just loving being in Palm Springs around people who loved books. Like, because there were other writers there, people who just love reading. It was. I had just signed my book deal. Like it was just the best feeling, right? Like it just felt so good. 

Zibby: Aw. Yay. I'm so glad. Well, I'm glad you were there and that our paths crossed in that way and yeah. Cheering you on. 

Kate: Yeah, thank you. And I'll see you next week. I'm actually gonna be at the um 

Zibby: Oh, yay. Oh good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, great. 

Kate: I look for any excuse to fly up to New York 'cause I have so many girlfriends there, so I just, so I'll see you soon. 

Zibby: Okay, great. I'll see you soon. Okay, thanks. 

Kate: Thanks Zibby. 

Zibby: Bye.