Zibby chats with beloved actress Judy Greer about THE BEST CHRISTMAS PAGEANT EVER, the new Christmas comedy-drama film based on the classic 1972 children’s book by Barbara Robinson. Judy delves into her role (the mom!), describing how her own mother’s work ethic, resilience, and community involvement have shaped her personally and on set. She and Zibby also talk about her career—particularly her shift from character actor (often playing “the friend”) to leading roles. Finally, Judy talks about her nightly reading ritual, her favorite recent reads, and how she finds comfort in bookstores wherever she travels.

Transcript:

Zibby: Hi, Judy. How are you? So I have to say I read your memoir So now I'm worried that this is one of those junkets where you're gonna make up a word.. 

Judy: Oh my gosh You know It's so funny as I was talking to some of the team from Lionsgate here today and I was as soon as I was talking about this junket being really fun because everyone loves the movie and it's It's been like a fun movie to talk about, and I've been mostly paired with Pete Holmes.

And I was like, gosh, you know, we didn't even need to play the word game this time because it's been like super fun. So don't you worry. Anything that I say is like, real. 

Zibby: Okay. Well, I'll be on the lookout for alligators or whatever else. 

Judy: Good memory. 

Zibby: Well, congratulations on the movie, which was fabulous.

Watched with my kids. It was so great and funny and poignant and amazing. 

Judy: So thank you for that. That's all we want. Thank you. 

Zibby: Having read your memoir, and sorry to keep referencing it, but now. 

Judy: I don't mind at all. Please. 

Zibby: Which was great. And this is like, Usually a books podcast. 

Judy: Yeah. Of course. 

Zibby: I love books and uh,.. 

Judy: Me too.

Zibby: Um, and all of that. But here you play the mom, in the movie. And I read all about your mom. So there are clearly a lot of differences. Why don't you talk about your mom and playing a mom and maybe your role as a stepmom as well. 

Judy: Yeah. I mean, well I've, now I've played a lot of moms. And they're all very different.

They're all very different, like all the different, like there's different versions of momming. I only can, you know, I only know like To borrow from my own personal experience with my stepkids, but then also, like, from my mom and my mom, she was a career woman. She was really tough. She was really driven, is, I should say, very focused.

And also, I think her expectations of people around her We're in our very high. And so I always wanted to impress her. I still kind of do that. Doesn't go away. We talk about it though. So it's like totally healthy, but, um, I always want to make my mom impressed and she really taught me such an insane work ethic.

And so I think part of the reason, like my friends are always like, you're never not working, you work too much. I'm like, that's how I was raised. And that's like, what, I value is like working hard and like my mother was a hospital administrator and she loved health care and she loves health care. She loved being in a hospital.

She loved nursing. She loved patients. And so I learned from her to. Like, spend my life doing something that I love, so that I never feel like I'm at work. And so that's what I did. And I think, for Grace, I mean, to compare Grace to my mom, like, my mother would have 100 percent volunteered for the pageant.

In fact, so many times, like, I will talk to my mom, and she'll be like, Oh, you know, I'm going over to Liz's to help her paint her bedroom. And I'm like, Why does Liz need you to help her paint her bedroom? And I'm like, well, she just does. Or like, I'm gonna go and move in with Nini for six weeks while she recovers from her knee surgeries in case she needs anything.

And like, she's just so like that. Like she's so giving of her time and she volunteers even now. And I mean, I think my mom will always be someone who you can, like the community could lean on, but don't take advantage of my mom if you're listening to this, but she's always willing to donate her time, which I think she's taught me is very valuable.

Zibby: Oh, I love that. Well, Grace in the movie, as soon as she felt like she couldn't do it or anyone was threatening her, she was like all in. 

Judy: Yeah. 

Zibby: Like, the neighborhood mean moms and all of that. And she's like, oh yeah, yes I can. 

Judy: Yeah. 

Zibby: Which I loved, because why not stick up to the mean moms? 

Judy: Yes. 

Zibby: And you know, it's very important.

But I feel like that was like your mom talking to you and saying like, yes you can get into this. 

Judy: I know. 

Zibby: And like, you're going to do it. 

Judy: I so was thinking about that when you were telling, like, she, my mom does love a challenge. And I, I remember that vividly that that was a real challenge for my mom. And in this particular case, the challenge was about me, not her, but yes, she would always rise to the occasion.

And if someone told her that she couldn't do it, she definitely would prove that she can. And, and so I think in that way, she has, so much in common with Grace, because yes, they both, they both really took it upon themselves to, I mean, my mom pushed me into something that I would have probably let slip through my hands and, and Grace really decided that she could make this pageant work and she could make it work with the Herdmans.

Zibby: I love that. Well, you know, the determination and all that just shines through. I was wondering, so this book, the book on which the movie is based, The Best Christmas Pageant Ever by Barbara Robinson came out in 1972. Did you read this book growing up? Because I actually did not, did you? Had you read it before?

Judy: I don't have any memory of this book in my childhood, and I'm not saying that that wasn't there, I just don't remember it, and I, like, definitely read all the books on our shelves. The first time I read it was after I read the script, so I usually, in a situation like this, I would read the script first, and then I would read the book, and then I'm always curious about, like, oh, how different is it gonna be, and what was really Heartwarming was I love the script so much and the book was the same so to me it was like a no brainer I mean that it's written exactly like the novel I think or novella is, It's kind of telling, you know?

Like, a book that has managed to be beloved for this many decades, like, why would you change it? 

Zibby: It's true. No, it, it was so similar and that was great. Yeah. Because the voice is the best part. I know. The voice is something you can't replicate that easily. 

Judy: Exactly. And that's really what the tone is. And I think that it's very, um, it says a lot about a director who wants to maintain the the book's tone and character and doesn't think that he or she can like add a better twist to it. Like, he just wanted to make this movie in the way that he always read the book. Instead of, and I'm talking about Dallas Jenkins in this case, instead of like trying to put his own spin on it or his own twist on it, you know?

And I think that says a lot too, like how much he cherishes this story. 

Zibby: It's wonderful. Well, I fixed what's not broken, right? Yeah, why not? So you've written about being the friend so much in your career to date. And here you are this star. I mean, this is amazing. You just, like, nailed it. So how has that been for you?

Judy: Well, I definitely was number one on the call sheet of this movie, but I feel like the real star of this film is the kids. They're just like, I mean, you can't even be mad at them for stealing all the scenes because they're so good and they're so wonderful. And, I mean, having an opportunity to be the lead in a movie, you know, I, first of all, it's hugely flattering and, I'm very grateful, but I never, I don't know, I, I've really seen the beauty in like what I do, which is to be able to sort of disappear inside of roles.

And I know I write about this, but to be able to kind of blend into the background a little bit more, I think it just you know, my, I have, I've hit so many demographics with my fans. I've done so many different genres of TV and film. Like, I don't think I could have accomplished all that if I'd started out maybe as number one on the call sheet.

I don't know. I, I think of most of what I do as an ensemble because it has to be that way for us to tell a story, you know, there's, I mean, I'm the star of the life of Judy Greer, but when I'm acting, I am a part of this great company, hopefully great company of people all like working to tell one story. I sound like very hippie dippy, but I don't believe, you know, they say there's only small, there's no small actors, right?

But like, I, I don't know. I. I kind of agree with that. It's so dorky, but it's true. 

Zibby: No, it's not. It's lovely. And that's such a nice thing to do. And it also dovetails so well with like Grace and her whole personality and how she sees the good in everybody. And she can just have so much patience and tolerance and the worst seeming kids can actually, if you understand what motivates them or take the time, it makes all the difference.

And it's a lesson that I feel like we need so much, particularly now in the world. Do you feel like you've got? Like an injection of empathy plus after, after, after being in the film. 

Judy: I really did. I really loved Grace. I mean, I like thinking about, like, what can I steal from these people I play? And with her, like, she's so patient.

And Grace is, I mean, she's not afraid to go outside of her comfort zone. And I think that that is, what drives so many of us is fear and fear of the other and fear of the unknown. And if we can take these great leaps while being afraid, like, our life is going to get so much fuller and so much more beautiful.

And I really learned that from this series. This movie taught me that. The script, even before we started shooting it, and also Grace's character, and how she allows these kids to take over the pageant and stand up for them, for the, to the whole town, is, is like, terrifying, I think, but it's so beautiful. 

Zibby: It really is.

It's amazing. Tell me a little more about the role of books in your life. And I know you in the book, you said that Lori Gottlieb's book actually got you to marry your husband and she's been on this podcast and she's amazing. I love her. So I know you're in a book club or were, are you still in a book club?

By 

Judy: the way, I would love to be in another book club. So if anyone will have me in their book club, I'm I'm on the hunt for a good book club. We sort 

Zibby: of disbanded. You can come to my book club. I have a book club. Oh. If you want. I do. I'm just throwing it out there. I would love to. Oh my gosh. 

Judy: I would love to.

Okay. You heard it here first. We do not have to read my book in the book club, by the way. In fact, I prefer if we didn't. Just as a caveat. I also bring good snacks. Do we do it in person or is it on Zoom? 

Zibby: It's on Zoom. 

Judy: Okay. 

Zibby: But we do it in person at my bookstore in Santa Monica. So we could meet there. 

Judy: I'm there.

I'm in. Books. Yes, how you were asking me about.. 

Zibby: The world of books and are you still in a book club and what do you like to read? 

Judy: So, no, not in a book club anymore, but I guess now I am so thank you for that. Thank you for changing my answer. I got so excited. I forgot the question. Books, I would say are, I mean, I'm gonna sound like hyperbolic but like everything in my life, like I'm never not reading.

I love books. I've loved books since I was a little kid. I don't remember learning how to read, I remember reading. I read so much when I was growing up that my parents told my babysitters that I wasn't allowed to read, that I had to go outside and play. They limited the amount of books I could buy.

You know, I've always been holed up with a book somewhere, and I read every single day. It is actually, like, The one thing I really do every day, I cannot think of a day in my whole life when I haven't ended it by reading at least one page of something. And often I wake up in the middle of the night with, um, insomnia, which is so awesome.

But, I read in bed at night when I can't sleep. And, yeah, one of my favorite things to do, I travel so much for work and I'm always shooting in, in towns all over the world, mostly in America. But I did get out to Europe this year for the first time. That was fun. But I always, first thing I do is find a bookstore.

And one of my best friends is a, a producer named Helen Estabrook. And she, whenever I get to, like I'm shooting somewhere in a new town, um, And I'm really like, I feel a little unhinged and like there's no like earth beneath my feet and I'm homesick and I'm like I can't do it. I can't be here for two months.

Helen always says, find a bookstore and go to it. Make it the first thing you do when you get to a new place and you'll feel home. And you'll understand. And you'll feel settled. And it's so true. And that's what I do. And I, and it's just been the greatest advice for travel. And I go to, and unfortunately I buy so many books when I travel.

And my husband's always like, Why do you buy books when you travel? They're heavy and you don't have room for them. I'm like, I have to, I have to. 

Zibby: I, I am the same, same exact way. It's so great to go to a place and feel like, oh look, here are all my friends. They're just waiting for me on the shelves. I know, 

Judy: I know.

And I think I feel like less guilty buying a book when I'm, uh, traveling and I'm supporting a small local bookstore. 

Zibby: There can not, guilt, no guilt can be associated with books. It's a, it's, you're doing a good thing for the author, for the community, for you. 

Judy: I'm gonna take that off the table right now. No guilt can be associated with purchasing books.

Um, I'm right now about to finish Laura Dave's new novel. That's on my nightstand. Stand. I have a love, Dave. Yes, obviously. Um, I have a collection of essays by Rebecca Solvent on my nightstand as well that I dip into from time to time. I finished before that HS for Hawk and Diary of a Avoid, and I'm trying to.

Think of what I read before that. Oh, I did, this summer I shot a movie called The Long Walk, which is based on a book by Stephen King that he wrote in the 70s. So I read that, and I also just finished Atomic Habits, which I'd been dying to read. I read that with my stepson, so we're gonna work on our atomic habits together.

I love him so much, and he was totally willing to read that with me. Before that, I read a book called I'm Ashamed to Say Boundaries. And I'm like, I really need to get some boundaries. And then I swear, because our phones are listening to us, like, up popped like an alert. We're like, buy boundaries, buy so and so.

And I was like, okay. So I read boundaries. I still don't have boundaries, but now I know why I don't. I'm trying to think of, isn't it funny, like, I just go through them so quickly and then I forget. I feel like I've never read a book before, but. 

Zibby: That is a lot. Most people can remember like one or two. So that was actually, that was like an A plus on the recall.

Judy: Oh, thank you. We also, you know, I was, um, shooting a movie after the best Christmas pageant ever and I was with my cast and we were in Finland and we sort of had, like, a whole book thing going where, like, all of us on the movie were big readers so we were switching books and trading them and that was really fun too.

I read The Wager, a book called Swimming Pool, um, trying to think of, oh, oh, bummer, I can't remember. Oh, Trust? We all read, which was amazing. 

Zibby: Wait, so you should have your own book club. No, seriously, put it on Instagram. Pick a book a month. Everybody, you know, do it. 

Judy: God, I mean, maybe I could. I don't, I feel like, but okay, like, when you have a book club, like, what if you don't, like, I'm just so blown away that someone can write a book, but, like, what if you don't love it?

Like, how do you deal with that? 

Zibby: Okay, then don't, then don't pick that, don't pick that book then. 

Judy: As your book of the.. Okay, read the book and then choose it. 

Zibby: Yeah, like after you finish a book and you're like, this is the best thing ever, I can't wait to tell everybody about that, that'll be your book club.

Judy: Okay. 

Zibby: And you just post it and the author will be so happy. 

Judy: Okay. I can do that. I read, one of my new favorite books of all time is called Wellness by Nathan Hill, and I loved that book. And I've recommended it to so many people, I just thought it was so incredible. And then obviously, Demon Copperhead was so good.

It's totally life changing. I loved that book so much. Those two really stand out in the last couple of years of like, like books that I keep on my shelf. 

Zibby: I have Barbara Kingsolver on this podcast too. You can listen. See how amazing she is. 

Judy: I'm going to. I'm going to. 

Zibby: She's on with her daughter. 

Judy: I, I, like the only person who hasn't read the Poisonwood Bible and that's next on the list.

That's on my pile right now.

Zibby: I will not tell anybody. 

Judy: Okay. Thank you. 

Zibby: It's okay. 

Judy: Except for I'm telling everybody. 

Zibby: Okay. 

Oh my gosh, I love that. Um, have you ever tried writing? I know you have your 42 diaries or whatever. But like, have you ever thought about, aside from the book, the memoir, but like you know, fiction, you know, I mean, more fiction.

Judy: You know what's funny is that my friend Janet, my best friend, Janet and I, a few years ago, like 2018, I think we wrote a novel together and. We wrote it. We worked on it really hard. We took it out once to some publishers and everyone passed on it and then the pandemic happened and then we decided to like pull it out and see if maybe we could revamp it and, you know, give it some like fresh thoughts, fresh ideas.

And so we both reread it and had a meeting about it. And we both decided that we didn't love it.

Like, you know what, maybe that is just like this really fun thing that we did together. Maybe there's like another story we want to tell, but I was kind of proud of us actually for being willing to like walk away. It's like editing a movie. Like sometimes you just have to be like, that scene is great. But.

It's not going to work. It's not going to tell the story. And we loved our book. We were so happy we did it. You know, it was a super fun thing to do together, but no, it was not, it's not the one. Of course I fantasize about writing the great American novel. I fantasize about writing the great American novella, to be honest, but I don't know if I ever will.

I mean, in order to write, you have to write. So that's the thing I don't do. I read, but I don't write. And I think of, I love. Stephen King's book on writing where he just talks about, you know, like, have that schedule. I'm sure we've all read Bird by Bird and like, you know, just sit down. You just got to do it.

And like, and uh, one of my old college girlfriends was like, well, are you writing every day? And I'm like, no. And she's like, yeah, then you don't want to write a book. And I was like, all right, I guess I don't. Or maybe not right now. 

Zibby: Maybe not right now. There's no expiration date. Fair. Fair. And you did say that you might want to write a whole thing because no one would believe your relationship with your, your husband and his ex wife and all of that.

Judy: I know. 

Zibby: So that sounds like you have some fodder left to write. 

Judy: There's a little something left in there, yeah. 

Zibby: You were actually so funny about, I shouldn't say actually, you were so funny about being a step mom and through all the indignities about parenting in general and how you can put all this effort into anything like a meal or whatever and have it not be repaid.

And I feel like grace in the movie also puts forth so much effort, which is not really acknowledged, certainly not by the community at first, not by the kids. Everything feels very thankless. So how do you get through a time where you feel like you're just like, Giving so much and not getting a lot in return.

Judy: Yeah, I, I have a, I have an image in my head of a piggy bank, and I have an image of like putting money into a piggy bank, and that while you're not spending this money now, it's like all sitting there, it's like, It's like, it's there for a rainy day. Like when you're doing things like that at the time feel thankless, like what you don't realize is that you're just like, you're putting money in a savings account that is compounding interest.

You know what I mean? Like you're making more money on your money. And that's what, that's kind of what I think in some ways, parenting is like you, you're, you put in the time, you put in the, you do your 10, 000 hours with your kids. You know, you love them more than anything. You're obsessed with them. Like it's probably going to come back to you at the end.

You know, like, it's never a bad thing. It's never a bad thing to like, to just love without requiring any thing in return. It makes you like a, I don't know. It's beautiful. That's the one beautiful thing about I think parenting and like now my step kids are in their twenties and it's like, since I wrote that book, you know, it's been a really long time.

Like they're their own people now. And like, I'm, I feel like I'm getting all of it back. I'm like getting so much love back. I'm getting time back. I mean, they make time for me just like I made time for them. And I know that's not always the case, but I feel like, you know, maybe, well, We're all obsessed with instant gratification.

We live in a society where you put it in and you get it back. You get it back, you get it back. And so like human relationships, regardless of the relationship, like human kindness, it's not instant gratification, you know, like you just have to do it. And I, and I think like seeing, seeing a movie like our movie and, and watching like how the decision was made that these kids were bad and like, that's just, that's it.

Like, people, like, one of the beautiful stories in this movie is like, opening your eyes and like, allowing something in that you didn't think was there before, you know? But like, you have to like, put the time in with people so that they will give you, like, who they really are. 

Zibby: I love that. That's really nice.

Judy: Thanks. 

Zibby: And be open to new perspectives on the oldest stories in. 

Judy: It's back to the fear. We can't be so afraid of, like, of everything and the other and be open, you know, like whether you're afraid or not, to just be open to hearing what's going on, the story, like, what was soccer practice like tonight, like, how was that meeting at work, honey, you know, like being open.

Zibby: Yeah, just like the pulling open of the card catalogue in the movie, which was such a lovely throwback to those times. 

Judy: By the way, I didn't even think it was like a throwback. I was like, uh, and then like, oh, right. 

Zibby: It's been so warm this year, I actually was feeling like winter itself was a throwback. Like, oh, remember when like the car would skid.

Judy: I know, I know, I know. 

Zibby: Well, the power of books is sort of so pervasive in this movie, the fact that it was based on a book, the books, the story of the Bible, the story of how they reinterpreted everything. So it's fitting that you are such a book lover in the midst of all of it. 

Judy: Thanks. 

Zibby: Alright, last question, like when, if you had like a week to yourself, how many books do you think you could go through?

Judy: Like a full week, like seven days. 

Zibby: Yeah, like you're going to, I don't know, wherever you love to go. 

Judy: I think five. 

Zibby: Okay. 

Judy: I think five. 

Zibby: Is there one? 

Judy: I mean, maybe not the covenant of water, like if I was going to bring that, then I would say three, but like average size books, five. 

Zibby: Amazing. 

Judy: Yeah. 

Zibby: Okay. Well, do you have any advice for people getting through the holiday season this year?

Judy: Oh, please, please, please take some time for yourself. It's really important. Even if you go to the bathroom and lock the door and set the timer on your phone for five minutes and just. Just take a breath and like everything goes by so fast. Let's really enjoy each other. Let's love each other. Let's love strangers. Let's drive the speed limit and use our blinkers and Uber if we're going to have eggnog and like do all the safety things so that we can just like take really good care of ourselves, take care of each other and like, not rush through it. 

Zibby: I love that. That is great advice. Thank you. And now I feel like I've just like gone to like a little spa for a little bit.

Now I'm going to take a deep breath and feel better about everything. 

Judy: Yeah! 

Zibby: So thank you so much. Thanks for coming on Mom's No Time to Read Books. And uh, keep reading. I love it. 

Judy: Thank you! I'll see you at book club. 

Zibby: Okay. Perfect.