Jill Santopolo returns to the podcast to discuss THE LOVE WE FOUND, the long-awaited follow-up to the Reese’s Book Club pick, and New York Times bestselling global phenomenon, THE LIGHT WE LOST. Jill shares the inspiration behind revisiting Lucy’s story, the emotional themes of love, loss, and second chances, and how her own experiences with grief and motherhood influenced the novel. They also talk about the novel’s evocative settings, including Italy’s Lampedusa, the challenges of writing romance and passion within the complexities of adulthood, and how Jill balances her dual roles as a publisher and an author.

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome, Jill! So excited to have you back to discuss The Love We Found, the sequel to The Light We Lost, which was one of my favorites of all time. Congratulations. So exciting. 

Jill: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

I love talking to you about books. 

Zibby: Uh oh. Okay, back up. For anyone who hasn't read The Light We Lost, give a one sentence about that, and then talk about it. The love we found and how you sort of structured this and came to write the sequel at all. 

Jill: Okay, so The Lightly Lost is the story of Lucy, who on September 11th, 2001, is finishing up college at Columbia University.

And on that day, she meets somebody named Gabe, and The two of them have an instant connection, sort of forged in the crucible of that day. And the book follows the two of them for the next 13 years of their lives, as they kind of weave in and out of each other's worlds, and Lucy figures out what she wants to do and who she wants to be, and so does Gabe, and That's, yeah, that's sort of the story, I think, right?

Yeah. Okay. 

Zibby: Great. So now, fast forward, and here we are with your next book. First of all, why write the sequel at all? I know people are demanding it, but why did you decide, and what is this book generally about? 

Jill: So I decided to write the sequel in part because a lot of people wanted to know what happened next, but also in part because I felt like I left them in a kind of broken place, particularly Lucy.

Create a story that would kind of heal her. I feel like the world has just been so broken in so many ways and we all need a little bit of healing and I want to put sort of that vibe out into the world. So the story this time around is we're back with Lucy. It's ten years later. And I don't know how much I can say about this book without spoilering the first book for people who haven't read it, but do we feel like it came out eight years ago?

It's okay, I can spoiler something. 

Zibby: I think it's okay. 

Jill: Okay. So it's ten years later, and the Associated Press is going to do a retrospective on the work that Gabe had done, and Lucy now has all of his Belongings and inside the box she finds an address that sends her sort of on a chase to look at more of Gabe's Photography and what she does when, when she goes on that journey, it sort of sets her on a path to healing and to unburdening herself of the secrets of the past and figuring out how she wants to live her future.

Zibby: Okay. Perfect. So the book, this book, there are so many threads that I found so powerful. Loss, relationships, mothering, second chances, the connections that you make. I love photography. Like everything about it, there was something that you could find that the reader could certainly find to relate to. Can I just read? the first page of the book just to whet people's appetites. This is on the Lost theme. Sometimes I wake up, and for a brief moment, you are alive, Gabe. In that blurry place between dreams and reality, you're smiling. Your arms are wrapped around me. You're saying, I love you, Lucy. I will love you until the day I die and then some.

Just like you whispered to me when we went hiking in cold spring two decades ago. We'd climbed to the top of the Bull Hill Trail and were taking in the most breathtaking view of the Hudson River. Your whispered words, the reverence with which you said them, made me shiver, made me lean back, turn my head and kiss you hard and deep like I needed to show you that I'd love you until the day I died and then some too.

I forgot about those words for years, but they've come back to me recently. Come back to me in those liminal moments when I'm not quite asleep, but not quite awake. And then the sun brightens or the alarm goes off and it hits me. You're gone. I wonder, particularly on those days, about the and then some. Is there a piece of you somewhere that loves me still?

Or is it all in the past? Are we ancient history? And am I the archivist keeping it alive? I don't know, how can you not want to read the book after you read that intro? I mean, it's like, for anyone who has lost anyone ever, you have to wonder, what does that mean? Where does the love go? And that's sort of one of the themes of the whole story.

Jill: My four year old daughter, actually, my, um, stepfather recently passed away and she has been asking all of these questions about sort of. What happens and where people go and one of the things she said to me, and it was after I wrote that scene in the book was what happened to, she called him Bave, his name is David, but what happened to Bave's love?

Like, where did it go? I was like, it's still here. It's still here. Like, no matter whether the person is still here or not the way that they touched you in the way that they loved you is still here. So we've been thinking about that a lot recently, but 

Zibby: I'm sorry for your loss. 

Jill: Oh, thank you. 

Zibby: I feel like I met him at the author's night.

Wasn't he there? Oh, I'm so sorry. 

Jill: But, but I have been thinking about that for a long time because I think so. My, my father passed away in 2015. So sort of when I was writing the first book, I was thinking a lot about what happens after death and what happens to the people who are left behind and how does that all play out.

So it sort of is something I've been thinking about for a long time, but it really played, I think, into this book. 

Zibby: How is your mom? 

Jill: She's strong. But she's going through it. 

Zibby: Sorry. Well, back to the escapist thrill of the book, which offers the reader a very different experience where we're getting on a plane and we're, you know, going through the streets in Italy and trying to find, uh, you know, a boy who, and I love how you like have us follow him throughout and the sort of wild goose chase that you, that becomes the beginning of the launching pad for the rest of it.

Take us through that and take us. Through your love of Italy, which I know you 

Jill: Yeah. 

Zibby: Has been in past books as well. 

Jill: So yeah. I, I just love traveling and I, in all of my books, the characters travel somewhere and Italy is. It's a particularly special place to me and my family. It's where my father's family is from.

It's where my husband's mother is from. So we have a ton of family there and we visit them and they're great. And um, they actually inspired my last book, um, Stars in Italian Sky, but that's a totally different podcast. But so for this one, I was really interested in what would Gabe have been covering right before he died in 2014 and 23rd, you know, he died in 2014 but what would he be covering in like the end of 2013 and 2014 and there was a lot going on with the Syrian refugee crisis then and one of the things that I find fascinating about Italy is the island of Lampedusa, which is this, like, vacation.

Everyone goes there in the summer. Beautiful, sailing, swimming, beach island. But it has become, and has been, you know, for decades now, the sort of gateway to Europe for a lot of refugees and people come on boats, and they have, on the island, like, this. They call it the hotspot, but it's like this Red Cross hotspot where like people are coming in in these boats that like look like they could fall apart tomorrow and are, you know, getting sort of the intake in this space and on this island and the, the Islanders who I met who live there like are so involved, giving clothes, giving toys, helping like they're really part of this.

There's this beautiful library that is a children's library and it gives children who come over like a packet of books and they have the largest, they call them silent books, but like wordless picture books collection there because you don't need to know any particular language to read those stories, which I think is super cool.

But. I, I kind of thought this is such a interesting place to feature and to visit and to sort of shine a light on in Italy. And it's not the typical place when you're reading about Italy where, you know, you read about Rome and you read about Milan and, and, you know, Florence and Venice and all of these like really romantic.

You know, stereotypical, like the Italian places you go to, which I love also, but I thought this was really interesting place to to focus on because it's not one that people talk about a lot in in fiction. I mean, it's in the news a lot, but it's not. It's not really fiction fictionalized often. So. I had a lot of fun in sort of researching it, but also going there and visiting and talking to the people and visiting the libraries and, and seeing the Red Cross Center and all of that.

Zibby: Wow. Well, thank you for taking me there. I needed a trip. So that was great. Very, uh, cost effective. Not a lot of work. And you can just open the pages of your book and suddenly be there. So you have three different men in Lucy's life, right? We have Gabe, who's And the memory and the love, which never goes away, you have Darren and then you have Dax, who's our new character in this book.

Talk a little bit about Darren and Dax. 

Jill: So Darren is the character that Lucy ends up marrying in the first book. And I, in this book, was trying, was, you know, one of the main things that I wanted to figure out is, okay, what happens 10 years later? What happened with that marriage? And Any way that I sort of tried to spin the story in my head, I was like, it doesn't make it through.

Like there's, I, with the characters, the way I set them up, I just don't see how they could still be together 10 years later. But there are so many things about Darren that Lucy loved, that I loved, and I think the main one is what an amazing father he is. So I wanted to really be true to that in this book and try and keep try and keep their, their relationship one where Lucy finds a way to appreciate what she loved about him while also appreciating not being married to him in a way so that was a sort of balance that I wanted to keep here.

And then I wanted her to finally find love that seemed to fit in a way and when I was writing the light we lost when I created Gabe and I created Darren I wanted to create men who were really perfect for her in one way, but like really not perfect for her in another way. And with Dax, I was like, I just want to find someone who's the right one for her, like in all the ways.

Someone who appreciates her for who she is and for what she wants to do and for you know her quirks and her neuroses, but also for like all of the creativity and the light she wants to bring into the world and that's sort of where I was going with Dax and I think because Lucy has had pain and loss in her life that really defined Who she became, I felt like the person who would be a match for her would also have experienced a different kind of pain and loss in his life.

And that it would sort of shape them in the same way and bring them together. 

Zibby: I love that. Well, as, as we talked about when I saw you last time, there are some very spicy scenes in the book. And. And. I was like, okay, Jill, look at you. Go, go. Like, you're like, get into it. 

Jill: Anyway, I wanted that for Lucy. She wanted that for her life.

Zibby: Yeah. Lucy needs it. I mean, come on. It's pretty awesome. And you perfectly show what it's like to have this kind of passion and these romps when you are a mom and you have custody days to, to contend with and what that feels like to have this on one day and then have something that feels like so entirely different on the next.

So much so that I remember asking you like, wait, but you're not, you didn't get divorced, right? Like where's this coming from? Uh, so talk about that and like the passion and the context of motherhood and custody and, and, and. Not mid life because she's a little younger than that, but you know, well, not really.

I don't know. How old is Lucy in this book? 

Jill: I think she's like 44, 40. 

Zibby: Yeah. Okay. So I guess you can, yeah. Anyway, talk about all that. 

Jill: So I think, well, part of it is, you know, I have a lot of friends who in the, in the intervening 10 years, you know, have gotten divorced. So there are a lot of conversations that I have with close friends of mine about.

The back and forth of custody and what that means to different people when they're not with their kids. So that sort of all went in here. But I also think that like, as a mom who's not divorced, even so like there are moments where it's like, okay, doing a bath, brushing teeth, pajamas, like reading stories.

And then like going into the bedroom and being like, okay, now like not a mom anymore. Like let's turn that off and turn something else on here. And now, you know, It's not even a day to day, but it's like an hour to hour, minute to minute of like, which, which pieces of you are going to be the ones that are taking the forefront?

And I feel that too with like, am I an editor? Am I a writer? Am I a mom? Am I a wife? Am I a sister? Am I a daughter? Like who am I in this moment in time? 'cause I am all of those things, but not necessarily all of them at once. 

Zibby: Yes. 

Jill: And I think that that's something that Lucy sort of pulls from in this story that there are moments where she is one thing more than the other, which doesn't mean she's not all of those things.

Also. 

Zibby: I love that we talk a little bit about you and those different roles, particularly the professional roles, because you have your day job, which is super big and super important and then you have your writing and everything else. So tell me about like, and how do you manage your time and toggle and what is your day to day like as a publisher versus an author?

Jill: Yeah. Toggling is hard. So yeah, I'm the publisher of Fillmill Books, a children's book in print at Penguin Random House. So right now, as I'm talking to you, I'm in my office at Penguin and most of the hours of my day are spent doing this and working on picture books and novels with authors and artists and helping their visions get realized and out into the world, which I absolutely love doing and then I would say, like, I get home from work probably a little before six, around six, and then, like, I am a full mom from, like, six o'clock to nine o'clock, let's say, and that's, like, dinner, bath, bed, packing lunch, going through the artwork in the backpack, all of that, like, fun stuff. And then, a lot of times after that, there's a chunk of time where either I'm writing or I'm doing something writer related for like an hour, an hour and a half or something like that, and then after that, I'm talking to my husband, my poor husband, who's like the last thing I get at the end of the day, but.

When I was going to graduate school and editing 100 years ago, one of the things that I realized worked for me was compartmentalization. So it was like, okay, these are the hours in which I do this thing and now I don't do this thing anymore and I try and really put it out of my head so that I can focus on this other thing.

Because if I don't do that and like, give myself real parameters, then it's like trying to answer emails while packing lunch and then the lunch doesn't get packed and the emails get mistakes and I like it, it just makes me a little more chaotic than I typically am. So, so that's sort of what I try to do, um, is really just figure like, okay, these are the hours that I'm doing this. These are the hours that I'm doing this. These are the hours that I'm doing this. And even like, you know, right now, even though technically I'm in my office, my email is turned off. My phone is over there, it's like I'm not, I'm talking to you and if I can focus on talking to you, then when I'm done, I'll go back and I'll answer all of the things that came in in this time that we've been chatting.

Zibby: Thank you for taking time out of work to do this.

Jill: Oh, no. I'm happy to. 

Zibby: I feel the same way, by the way. I'm like, I will be doing podcasting for these hours, then I will not be doing podcasting, and then I will read another day. Yeah, you have to, uh, I feel like living by the calendar is super important. You know, like this is when I've allocated this time, but yeah.

By the way like, I'm sure this must happen to you incessantly because everywhere I go someone tells me that they have an idea for a children's book or they've written a children's book, right? And just yesterday this happened and I was like, I think you should just self publish your book and just like go hire an editor if you want, get a great cover and just like put it up.

Just like put it up on a platform and sell it yourself because, you know, this is not the time. Like, there are just too many books, right? So what, what do you, like, what do you do? Like there are like a bazillion people. Everybody has a children's book. 

Jill: Yeah. There are a lot of people. I mean, there was an article recently that I contributed to for Publishers Weekly.

That was what is the place that someone pitched a children's book to you and it was like they asked a whole bunch of children's book editors and.. 

Zibby: What was your answer? 

Jill: So, well, I had initially thought the oddest place was going to be when I was at a family friend's bridal shower, and some random person who I didn't know heard what I did, and then started pitching this book while we were at the bridal shower.

But then what I ended up writing about was when people started pitching my father,.. 

Zibby: Oh my goodness. 

Jill: Endodontist. So he was doing dental surgery on people's mouth and they start, they were like, oh, isn't your daughter a children's book editor? I have this idea. And then he would call me and be like, um, so this person in my chair today had this idea.

Maybe it's the next Harry Potter. I'd be like, dad's probably not the next Harry Potter, but like. Okay. Here's my email. Tell them they should, you know, send me a note or whatever. So I feel like the proxy pitching was really an interesting development, like, Oh my gosh. But I, you know, I think I'm a huge fan of the SCBWI, the Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators.

And I think that's usually the first thing I recommend to people who are interested in writing for children. Because similarly to what a professor at college had said to me when people were talking about wanting to write and she said, if you want to write, you have to read really widely in the area in which you're going to write so that you know what's there and you know what you can contribute and you know if you're breaking rules that you are doing it consciously and for a reason and otherwise that, you know, sort of what the parameters are. So, I sort of feel that way about children's books too, where, like, if you join the Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators, you sort of have this space. And conferences to learn, like a picture book is 32 pages long.

That's just like a thing because of the way they're made. Right. So like there's, there's that kind of stuff, which I think is important to know, just going into any sort of, you know, writing endeavor, including, and particularly children's books, because you know, you may go out into the world and be like, Oh, I'm looking for comp titles.

Oh wait, somebody did this already or somebody, or like, Oh, my book is 72 pages long and I want it for three year olds, like maybe that won't work, right? I mean, or maybe it will because you've consciously looked at the market and decided that this is a thing that you're going to do and break the rules for this reason.

But I always feel like getting all of the basic knowledge first and then sort of figuring out like, Oh yeah, this is actually something I want to pursue because I've done the research and I've, I've learned all the things. I think the research and learning the things to me is like the first. The first step.

Zibby: Yes. It's like the art world, right? You have to learn what are you saying that's contributing to this conversation. 

Jill: Yeah. 

Zibby: You don't just, a canvas is not a canvas. Anyway. Okay. So back to the love we found. So in the midst of all of the day to day and the love stories and this and that and, you know, coming of middle age, essentially for Lucy, there ends up being this sort of um, twist that you put in and revealing of a secret and all of this, which makes it even more propulsive as like, especially towards the end, how is this going to be handled and all of that.

When you were drafting the book, how did you handle plotting, writing it? Like when did, did you know all of this to begin with or did it come as you were just going? 

Jill: I knew generally what was going to happen. Like I had written a sort of two page chatty synopsis of what was going to happen in general and then when I started writing it just sort of like the connective tissue built out.

I was somewhere and I said but my process in writing plot is sort of like planning a road trip where you start first and you're just like okay I want to drive from New York to Los Angeles and you're like okay well I want to drive from New York to Los Angeles and I want to stop in like these three cities along the way.

Okay now I want to stop in these three cities and go to these restaurants and stay in these hotels and now I want to visit these museums and so like I start with that very bare bones thing and then I just kind of. 

Zibby: Well, this is now clear to me why I have trouble figuring out what to write because I'm like, well, should I drive or should I fly?

Should I take a train? Should I, you know, like at the last minute, I'm like, well, wait, maybe I shouldn't fly from DC. Maybe I should, the weather's, I don't know, maybe I'll take the train this time. Maybe I'll, you know, so yeah, now my decision has, it all makes sense now that you framed it that way. Thank you for that.

Will there be another installment in will this be a trilogy. 

Jill: You know, never say never but I feel like I left lucy In a good spot like i'm happy with where she is now and I don't feel like I need to open up her next chapter really I've always thought I would like to write the story for, like, a piece of the story from Darren's perspective.

Zibby: Mm hmm. 

Jill: Because I feel like those intervening ten years and even this piece of it, like, are really rough in a way for him. Like, like, yeah. So that's, that's sort of a, a space that I was thinking could be interesting, um, if I were to expand the world. And I also feel like there are other characters in the book who are smaller characters who I would, Be interested in telling their stories, too, but I don't know if that's if that's really gonna happen.

I feel like Lucy's friend Julia I'd be interested in yeah in her story Kate her brother Jay like I feel like they're characters who I really love and would love to give them some real page time. No plans for that. 

No plans for that right now. 

Zibby: And I didn't even get into the kids and all of the subplots related to the kids and all of that.

So anyway, loved this book so much. As you know, it's one of my book club picks. I I think everybody will love it, regardless of whether or not they've read the first book. And I feel like it just, it's such an immersive, emotional, escapist read. And it's kind of the antidote for all the heaviness of the world.

So thank you for this. 

Jill: You're welcome. Amazing. I hope it, I hope it does put those healing vibes out into the world and, and sort of makes people at least feel good for the moment when they're reading it. 

Zibby: And you are so helpful with, uh, like running Essentially Artists Against Anti Semitism now, by the way.

So thank you. What, what is your official role there?

Jill: I think I'm co president of the board. 

Zibby: Amazing. 

Jill: Thank you. We're trying to put more, more love and peace and connection into the world. And I hope, hope that that's the direction that we, the whole world starts leaning. 

Zibby: Me too. Enough hate. I'm done with it.

Jill: Yeah. Enough. Really enough. 

Zibby: Yes. Okay, Jill. Well, thank you so much. Congratulations. And yay. Okay. Okay. 

Jill: Bye. 

Zibby: Bye.