Zibby is joined by New York City’s premier “house call veterinarian,” Dr. Amy Attas, who takes us into the exclusive penthouses and hotel rooms of the wealthiest Manhattan pet owners in her heartfelt and hilarious new book, PETS AND THE CITY. Dr. Attas describes her 30-year career and shares anecdotes from her most memorable home visits, including when a dog swallowed his owner’s blue pills… She expresses her love and dedication to her work and even shares some practical advice for pet owners.

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome, Glynnis. Thank you so much for coming back on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. This time, I'm, your book is, I'm Mostly Here to Enjoy Myself, One Woman's Pursuit of Pleasure in Paris.

Glynnis: Thanks I didn't realize until you held it up, I kind of matched my shirt to the.. 

Zibby: You did! 

Glynnis: Yeah, unintentionally. 

Zibby: You're feigning ignorance of this, but really it was totally planned. oh my gosh. And listeners, Glennis is just reminding me, we first talked about her last book, six years ago, which seems physically impossible to me because it just does.

But yeah. 

Glynnis: Wow. 

Zibby: Amazing. Well, I was so excited when you originally told me you were writing new book, then to get your new book and I was like, oh, yay. And it's so good.

Glynnis: I think you were really one of the first people I showed the cover to. I think I was at a book event. 

Zibby: Yep. 

Glynnis: At your home and I only just received it.

Like, received final approval on it, showing you in your kitchen while I was eating your delicious appetizers. 

Zibby: Anytime. And the cover is amazing. The whole thing. The thing I really loved is that you talk about stuff people probably should be saying and talking about, but you say it in a new way so that we all kind of understand ourselves more.

Which is what I is so powerful to get out of a book and you, like, hit the nail on the head. Do you know what I'm talking about? 

Glynnis: I'm happy to hear it. I think, I mean, having the book go out in the world has always been interesting as I'm sure you know, like, what you think you've written and what people experience.

Sometimes aligns really closely and you're like, oh, great. And sometimes people come back and they're like, it feels like not in a bad way, but you're like, oh, I didn't know that necessarily know that that was there. But now that you have, you know, experienced that version of it. I'm thrilled to hear it. So there's definitely a lot of different.

I joke that the book is about Paris, sex and cheese, and it is, but in addition to that, it is about a number of other things. So it's always an interesting sort of like Rorschach test on where people are in their own lives to be like, to hear what they, what they're getting out of it. So as it's going out into the world, it's been, you know, interesting.

You know, it's great. 

Zibby: So what is your elevator pitch? 

Glynnis: My elevator pitch, which I've gotten better at, is the book is about five weeks I spent in Paris in August of 2021 after more than a year of being very, very alone in my little New York apartment, which you can see behind me, I stayed in New York during COVID and which was fine.

And I'm, I'm glad that I did. But I've sort of, it's one of those things where you don't realize. How difficult something has been until you sort of reach the end, end of it that summer, it all sort of blurs together. But that summer, as you remember, the vaccines came out and people were sort of starting to emerge from their homes in New York.

And I was like, oh, my goodness. I have not. And I say I wasn't touched, I mean like, touched, like I was touched, but also just like literally touched. Like, you know, I was, my building had emptied out. I lived by myself. It was really rather extreme. And then I got on a plane and I went to Paris and I just, I was thought, I am gonna hurl myself into every pleasurable thing I encounter.

And I'm fortunate that I have a group of friends there, because I've spent time there over the years. And Paris is a place that does prioritize pleasure, you know, I think even in that moment and then everyone there was having the same experience. So it was just sort of like a hedonistic five weeks. And when I got back, I kept thinking, like, we don't have very many stories that prioritize women's pleasure simply as deserving in and of itself.

And we don't have a lot of stories for women where the pleasure is not tied directly to, you know, pursuit of marriage or pursuit of parenthood. Both of which are great plots, but I was like, I would just want something that just exists is like, you know, I go and have a good time and also I was 46 turning 47 that summer.

I turned 50 at the end of this summer. And I thought we definitely don't have stories about women in so called middle age who are just where everything is enjoyable as opposed to I think the message we often get is like, it's just gonna get worse. Your body is changing and like you're not attractive and, and it's not so exciting.

And I'm like, your body is changing. And yet, you know, your body has always been changing as a woman. And so I really just wanted to be like, oh, I want everyone else to know that this is possible. That's less of an, that's a long elevator ride, but that, uh, that is how I would describe the book. 

Zibby: We, we took the Eiffel Tower ride here.

Oh, well, I love that and I love how you start off by telling us like after how difficult and crazy the lockdown was for you, that even something as simple as the flight and the traffic were easy. And I love that you're like, there was nobody even sitting next to me and I could just lay out and then there was no traffic here.

Like as someone who like. I was like, no way. 25 minutes to Kennedy? No, how did she do that? 

Glynnis: I wrote that down. I was like, I don't, I'm maybe a guy friend of mine. I said, I don't think you understand for women. Like just everything going right is like almost pornographic. And like, it's just like, oh my God, because I would tell, because I was so mesmerized by it. 

There was no traffic to JFK. There was like, everything went right. And I was so dazzling to me that when I was telling my friends about it, like the reaction on their faces is similar to your tone right now. And I'm like, this is just, this is, people need to know about this. People need to know what it's like when everything goes right for you as a woman.

Because again, I don't know that we really, you're so, especially women on the move and when you're traveling, you're so keyed to be like, is it safe? Is it this? And those are all valid questions. But I was like, what happens when like. It all goes well. 

I mean. 

Zibby: Yeah. And, I mean, it's a great sort of preamble to all the other things in the book that go, that go well.

How did you feel about, well, first of all, the level of detail is great. Were you keeping a journal the whole time? Like, how did you, you took the whole time? 

Glynnis: So, not the whole time, because as I detail, detail somewhat in the book, I occupied myself. 

Zibby: Yes. 

Glynnis: But I do, I do keep, I have kept a journal since I was.

Six years old, which I still have. And so it was sort of like a normal thing to just journal. And one of the reasons this turned into a book is I, I had, when I returned and I was back in New York, I'd gone into my journal to look for some detail or some name and I started rereading it and I was like, oh, this is great.

Which is one of the reasons the book is in present tense, because I thought, oh, I just, I don't want this to be like, oh, this happened in the past. I just wanted, like, the experience that I had of rereading my own journal of like, oh, you're sort of dropped into it again and living along with it. So yeah, some of those, many of those details are really pulled somewhat directly from my own journals.

And then, you know, the longer passages of me sort of thinking out loud or pulling on history or context are definitely. Aspects of the book that came into it as I was writing the actual book. 

Zibby: Yeah, I, I appreciated like the tour of Paris also. I'm like, I didn't even know this about all these parks and like, now I need to go find this other park and I've been in the wrong place.

What am I even doing? 

Glynnis: I'm so glad I like, Captured it to it for myself when I think about it because Paris now is packed again, even almost more than it was pre COVID much as you know, like New York feels very filled to the brim. And I was so grateful that I'd had enough time in Paris prior to COVID to have some understanding of the city so that when it was empty, it was so empty that summer I was there.

That's in this book that I could really appreciate the, the emptiness of it. And now it is. Like empty Paris is a fantasy. It's so full of people again. So even I, when I read it, sometimes I'm like, oh, that was great. It's just great to like zoom up to a park. And that was like, the streets were empty. So. 

Zibby: You should set up like a little roadside stand in Paris when the Olympics comes through this summer and just be like, no, no, it was empty.

Look, this is going to be nuts this summer. 

Glynnis: I was just there last month. And even the construction is a really crazy right now. So I am grateful that I Like, inadvertently, this wasn't, I wasn't attempting to sort of, because when I sold the book, I still think that we all were a little uncertain of what things were going to look like.

And so I'm just in hindsight now, sort of with the awareness of where we are right now in terms of travel and such a, I'm like, I'm so glad I got all this down because it does feel like a fairly, like I just captured something that was rare. You know, for all of us, it was a hard time, but yeah, there's something magical about an empty city, really.

Zibby: Yeah. Let's talk about the, the down and dirty of the, of the book. Okay. Do you not get embarrassed? Right? Like I get embarrassed even like talking, reading, I'm blushed, but like, do you not or do you, but you plow through and put it out there anyway? 

Glynnis: I will tell you when I, there is a not insignificant amount of sex in this book, which I, I don't felt was important because it was a key component of that summer, but also, I think because so much of the messaging directed towards women my age is like, oh, you're no longer you've lost your attractiveness, you are, have you reached the point where you're invisible?

Like, can you ever accept yourself? Back to have sex again. Essentially, like I just felt and so because it was such the opposite. It was just like another example of the gaslighting around narratives around women in their bodies and age and I and which was a little bit when I touched on the last book.

But no. So when I. I really, when I did the first draft and you know, this like first drafts, you're sort of huddled in this very, even if it's not literally like this, like you're in a very safe space with no input and you can sort of just convince yourself like, oh, I'm just writing this in my diary and like, let me get all the details down, which I did.

And I sort of thought, oh my God, this is horrific. And so then I compelled myself to hand it over to my editor, Amy Sun, who I love and she was very encouraging and by the time, though, the book gets to this point, I think the desire to write well to write a good story to make sure that I'm providing the experience that I want the reader to have outweighs any self consciousness of, I can't believe I'm quite literally revealing myself in this way.

You know what I mean? Like, in that, that instinct, the fear of having bad storytelling or bad writing is, is much stronger than the fear of, you know, shame or not even just shame, like embarrassment. By the time it gets to this point, It's seen, it's been seen by so many eyes and you are sort of the book and I don't know if you have this experience too, but by the time you get to the point where it's almost published, it's almost like we don't have Children, but like you're putting it out into the world.

You have sort of like relinquished, it exists as its own thing, separate it. From you almost like I'm obviously still connected to and attached to and but it's like it's sort of becomes its own thing away from you. So I when I went to do the audio book last month, I did go in thinking how it's going to be like and my audio book producer was so wonderful and what we just had such a good time reading it.

And at the end of it, I was like, I probably could have put in a little bit more sex. I just. I had enough distance from her. I was like, ah, this sounds great. 

Zibby: Where's the sequel? 

Glynnis: I would stop and go, you know, he really was very enjoying it.

So no, I think I, but it definitely was. But it was definitely like I made a promise and then delivering on the promise at the beginning felt a little, like I was anxious about it. And then, you know, you just keep going, you know, you have, you just sort of keep going because you, you want it to be a good book.

I will say, friends of mine, friends of mine who are in the book have all read it. Obviously before it, like over the drafts, but people who've read it will come back to me and say like, actually, I think the, the pornography for lack of a better word is around the food, or I think that the pleasure in it is around, you know, the bike ride, or I think so.

It's very interesting. I know there's plenty of people who are like, no, I love the sex, so, but it's really interesting. I think women, how women experience pleasure, again, is not something. that we talk about to any, at any great length. And so the assumption is that we experience pleasure the way men do.

Like it's all about nudity and sex. But in fact, I really think there's some people that like, oh, it's the friendships that I found the most pleasurable part of the book. And I think it's really, it's been interesting to me again, when I say like, people come back with different impressions. It's been interesting to me to be like, oh, I assumed this would be the part everyone thought was the like, oh, I can't get enough.

But in fact, it turns out that I am better writing food descriptions than I thought, or it turns out like, but he wants to eat the brunch with the five butters and the, and all of the sugar, whatever it is. So that's, that's where I sort of made a mental note to dial back on my, like, this is a book about sex because it really is a book about pleasure.

Is the truth and sex is one component of the pleasure but honestly, it's also, I think, a love letter to my bike and a number of my friendships. So it's like it, it, it,.. 

Zibby: It's amazing. It's a, it's a true escape, right? You're escaping. You're taking us to another life altogether and another city, the city that people dream about going to doing the things people can only dream about, eating the things, do you know, like it's, the whole thing is like aspirational. And the pleasure in the reader is just getting to go along the ride with you, right? That like, like the arc from, isolation and, you know, where you have giant water bugs and like rats and talons.

And I'm like, what the heck? 

Glynnis: Right. It was like, I remember one point my editor said something about water bugs and I was like, oh, I need to explain to people who don't live in New York. The water, bug. 

It's not. Yeah. I do think, I mean, I think for everyone lockdown was the most extreme version of our life choices whatever those life choices were, you know, it was, oh, I like being married to this person, but do I want to be married to them this, this much? oh, I adore my children, but do I need, do I want to be with them as much as I'm with them? Or in my case, I'm like, I love my life, but oh my God, this is like the most extreme version of being alone.

And it was like, and I think for all of us in different ways, it was like that, but. 

Zibby: Trying to see if I dog eared it or not but when, when you were like, people kept coming up to me and being like, I hate my kids. I laughed out loud. 

Glynnis: I'm glad you did because it really, and I think to have that feeling towards your children is such a nightmare.

So people would come and sort of like walk around socially distanced apart with me and like say it like a confession. And I was like, just so you know, like you're like the fifth person in two weeks. I understand the difference between you are in a really hard, hard place right now and that you actually hate your children.

Like there's a, there's a, there's a, that we don't allow women to experience necessarily that gray area of like, oh my God, I hate my kids. Yes, because this is an extreme, extreme experience, but yeah, I do think women tell me that, parents tell me that, because I don't have kids, and it's like an assumption that there's not going to be like a lack of judgment.

I've turned it into like the confessional booth, but it's also helpful that so many people do it, because I can be like, it's completely normal. You know, you're not alone. 

Zibby: I mean, in a way, the book is like the ultimate bounce back for all of us, right? We all need that, and we need the distance to see how far we've even come from since there, which doesn't feel like that long ago, and you do that in a way, like, I don't necessarily, you know, quote, if someone said, like, do you want to read a book about COVID?

But like, this is not a book about COVID at all. It's about the aftermath and life. And like, I don't think, like, if you would take this trip, five years ago, it wouldn't be landing the same way with readers. They'd be like, okay, yeah, glad you had fun. 

Glynnis: Exactly. Precisely. I do think that we, I mean, there, I do think culturally you're seeing In this sort of, especially in America, because, you know, there's lots of things wrong with France.

I don't like to idealize places too much and Paris exists, you know, as an idea for all of us and then there's a reality to Paris and in this book, I, I got both at the same time, which was such a gift. But I do think America in particular is, post COVID is a little bit like, why aren't we having more fun?

Like, why aren't we, why aren't we enjoying ourselves more? You know, like wait, cheese sounds good. Like vacation, you know, and I, and you can sort of feel it percolating in the air. And I didn't want to write, I really just wanted there to be an enjoyable story. I, I, do you, I don't remember, remember during COVID, like, I would go on Twitter and people would be like, I'm taking this opportunity to read Tolstoy, War and Peace, or Anna Karenina.

I was like, oh my God, all I want to do is watch the party scene in Breakfast at Tiffany's. Like, I just wanted like, Obviously, we're not living in a world right now where there's a ton of happy news and I just thought like, let's just have like a little small just little part of it. Yeah, like just sort of luxuriate in a little small thing because I do think in the experience of joy is resilience truly like this idea that they don't coexist is not related to humanity or reality or how you managed to get through difficulties.

And so, but also during that moment, I kid you not, I really did feel like I landed in Paris and like people were just like, how quickly can I take my clothes off? Like there was, it was like, cause they had a much stricter lockdown than we did. I mean, New York was really tough, but Paris had also had a strict lockdown.

And so they were just, it did feel like the timing of my landing there in my, sort of, state really aligned with the state of Britain. It was just like, it was a little bit of a Roman, you know, the Romans and the Roman baths hedonism happening. 

Zibby: But I think that celebration of connection is what life is all about.

And that's what you're doing is saying, like, I tried it without any human connection and it was terrible. And yes, of course, we all value our privacy and our time alone, but like, this is like so fundamental to who we are that I'm going to show you what it's like when I go all in on that. And that's what we, that's kind of what we all need in the aftermath, right?

Glynnis: Yeah. I mean, Not just the aftermath of COVID, I just think the fact that we're sitting here on Zoom, you know, like the fact that there's a significant number of lives that have like transitioned to not real life and combine that with the COVID experience, it's like you need to be in community, in real life community.

Like the, the physicality of being close to somebody just even across a dinner table is so fundamental to how we exist. And, and. Being reminded of that that summer has stuck with me. I really do my best to like, I joke these days. I'm like, I'll come to the opening event. Like I just like just seeing people in real life still, even though we're four years out now or three years out from the worst of it.

Still, it just still feels like there's like a craving, like a real life craving, I guess. 

Zibby: Someone just sent around an article on Instagram last night or something, which came out, but I missed it. It came out a month or two ago, about just about the rise of attendance in like all sorts of events, right?

Like literary events and salons and, you know, these random like dinner things that people are hosting everywhere. Just like people are out and they're like, whoosh. 

Glynnis: Yeah. Yeah. 

Zibby: Which is good. 

Glynnis: I just want to touch, like, I, like, quite literally, I'm just like, oh, I'll never, never get enough hugs now. Like, I just, you know, like..

Zibby: I want to, like, pull apart the Zoom and, like, let you into my room.

Glynnis: I feel so bad. Yeah, it's wild to, and, and also, I think, gives you some tiny measure of insight into what, you know, isolated people. Like isolated by age or circumstance or, you know, isolation is punishment. It is truly punishing. And it, and I live on the Upper West Side, which the population is ages like the age average is a little higher, but, and I, I really do think that, like when I'm at the post office and you see sort of, older people standing there chatting away with the post person and you're like, oh, for God's sake, get a move on.

But then I really think like it can be very like the isolation of age sometimes for some people is so hard and so it really made me think a lot more about ice and loneliness because I'm never lonely. And I think we have really, you know, troubling narratives around what who loneliness attaches itself to and like the circumstances and this idea of, you know, you're a lonely person if you don't partner up or whatever it is.

And I just think, oh, I don't actually think that has anything to do with it. But loneliness is brutal. And isolation is brutal, actually, you know, isolation. 

Zibby: It's true. Did you hear that in some grocery stores now, they're, they're going to have an aisle for, older people who just wanna talk and check out slowly.

Glynnis: Oh, that's, no, I love that. I'm getting in that aisle. . I myself, during Covid, I became the person at the post office being like, and then, and I thought, oh, this is how it happens. This, I can see, I got like a preview into,. 

Zibby: Yeah. 

Glynnis: Just from circumstance. Oh, I love that. 

Zibby: My mom told me by the way, like my stepdad, he'll just like go hang out at the post office for a couple hours.

He's like, yeah, just like to check it out. Say hi to all the guys, you know, he like puts a chair outside the post office and just hangs out. It's adorable. Anyway, goodness. So great. It was so fun even just to like be in your writing head voice, you know, all this stuff again. So I'm a fan and it was great.

Glynnis: Thank you for having me and thank you for reading the book. And, uh, It's really fun.

Zibby: I hope, uh, hope to do this again before six more years. So you better get to it. 

Glynnis: Let's go to another city and see what they have to offer. 

Zibby: Exactly. Oh, yeah. Take us with you. All right. Bye. 

Glynnis: Thank you. 

Zibby: Thank you. Bye.