“I never thought I would ever tell anybody about my eating disorders. I was going to grave with this.” Lifestyle blogger, podcaster, author (and Zibby’s new best friend!) Erin Washington shares her story as someone who has been in the trenches and come out on the other side. She discusses how she’s learned to live life with balance, and how mindful eating, heavy lifting, and eating often have changed everything for her.

Transcript:

Zibby Owens: Oh, my gosh, Erin Washington is my new best friend. She is author of Squats and Margaritas: A Journey to Finding Balance. We had the best time, as you will hear in this episode. Erin is a lifestyle blogger and podcaster and is the author Squats and Margaritas, the book, in which she shares her story of what it’s like to live with and overcome an eating disorder and how she has learned to live life with balance. This mom of two now juggles workouts, playdates, happy hours, and after struggling with weight and body image for twenty years, has finally found her best body and mindset. She currently lives in the Washington, DC area.

Welcome, Erin. Thank you so much for coming on “Moms Don’t Have Time to Lose Weight.”

Erin Washington: Thank you so much for having me on “Moms Don’t Have Time to Lose Weight.”

Zibby: Your book was the perfect discussion fodder. You were so amazingly open in your story. I so appreciated everything from how you developed eating issues, if you will; your soccer career; the horrendous experience with your coach which made you quit soccer, which by the way, I hear over and over again from college athletes, so let’s go back to that in a second; and then all the way through your marriage and having kids and where you are with your body now from anorexia, exercise bulimia, bulimia, the whole spectrum. Now you have this newfound understanding of how to feel great in your body. Thank you for the book. Now we can talk and dive into it.

Erin: Thank you for reading the book, first of all. I can’t believe I have a book. I never saw any of this coming. I never thought I would ever tell anybody about my eating disorders. I was going to grave with this. I found this lifestyle of balance, Squats and Margaritas, that I live now at thirty-seven after having two kids. The whole premise of the book was to show moms, if you just live your life with balance, stop restricting, stop being so obsessive and living in that constant state of stressed out, obsessive nature, listen to your body — when I finally did that, I lost twenty pounds. I got a writing coach. I was like, “This is the book I want to write to the woman who’s working out and not seeing results or feels like it’s too late, any of kind of excuse. I want to show them exactly how I did it step by step.” I’m writing the book. She was very honest with me. She said, “Why would anyone listen to you? You don’t have any credibility. What if you’ve always been in shape?” I was like, no, no, I’ve been through it. I didn’t tell her at that point. I was like, “I don’t really want to get into my past. I want to help women.” She kept pushing me. She was like, “You need to tell your story and where you came from to find balance.” I pushed back. Then one day, I just wrote it. It wasn’t even that anybody had seen it yet or read it. Once I wrote it and it was out, I just felt lighter. Then I started sharing everything. I went into just every detail of how I used to — like you said, I was anorexic. I was bulimic. I wrote it all to show that this balance can start at any time. It doesn’t matter what you’ve been through. Like I said, I found it at thirty-seven. I finally decided to tell my story just to inspire women. It’s not too late. You’re not too old. You can change your life.

Zibby: How secret was it? Did your husband know? Did your parents knows? I know your sister overheard you throwing up and kind of knew. Your mom kind of knew. How much was new information for the people close to you?

Erin: I had to sit down and tell them that I was putting a book out and there was going to be a lot of stuff that they didn’t know about. Everybody knew I was struggling. It’s funny. I’m the oldest of four girls. None of my sisters dealt with anything like this. They were always right around the same weight. Their hair was always the same color. I was either super, super skinny, twenty pounds heavier, platinum blond hair. Sometimes it was dark black. I struggled. I’m firstborn. I did a lot of studying on that. I’m obsessive, my personality, obsessively. I got into the eating disorders. I was very obsessive about soccer. As an athlete, you kind of equate thinness and being in shape with soccer prowess. If I’m super skinny and in shape, I’m going to be better at soccer. Since that was the ultimate goal, around sixteen I started with the anorexia. I started my period super late at fifteen. As women, you start to gain weight. I was like, wow, this isn’t going to work for soccer. I was severely restricting my calories, I say in the book, to the point where I wouldn’t eat carrots because they were a starchy carbohydrate. I would come home from school and take naps so that it was time that I was sleeping and not eating.

Obviously, my mom could see I was getting skinnier and skinner. I found out after writing the book that she was seeing a therapist during that time because she didn’t know how to talk to me. I didn’t realize how much she had known about the anorexia. Again, back to soccer, it got to the point where my coach was like, “Listen, your crosses aren’t as strong anymore.” I was like, if he’s about to equate this to soccer, I better do something. Instead of just going back to normal and eating, I only wanted to show him how fine I was, everything was fine. I started eating, but then my eating disorder evolved into exercise bulimia. For anyone that doesn’t know, you calculate every calorie you put into mouth. I was jotting it down on little notecards. Then you go and you work out that much. If I ate three hundred calories, I was on the elliptical for three hundred calories. You cancel it out. I was like, I’m eating, but I obviously wasn’t gaining weight. That happened. I was in better shape. I wasn’t as skinny. Then I went to college. I had a soccer scholarship. I was a Division I athlete. I’d played since I was four. It was my entire identity. When I got to college, I wasn’t playing. We were back-to-back state champions in high school. I never came off the field. I was the captain. I didn’t know how to be on the bench. I’ve never been in that position. As hard as I trained and everything that I put into it, I felt like it wasn’t fair. I ended up quitting my sophomore year.

I didn’t realize until writing this book how much that took a toll. When that soccer identity was gone, I say I couldn’t go to the soccer building anymore where the athletes worked out. I had to work out at the rec center. It sounds so like, wow, you poor thing. I would see all my teammates. I lived in the soccer house. They would all go to games. I fell into depression. Then I fell into bulimia. Now I think it was just because it was something I could control. I felt so out of control. That, I hide from six — I was one of six women living in a house. None of them had a clue. I did have to talk to them. One of my roommates isn’t even talking to me, just was so disappointed that I couldn’t confide in her during that time, which I get, but I wasn’t going to tell anybody. I hid it, obviously. Bulimia is tricky because I think people think you throw up your food, so you’re super skinny. It’s actually quite different than that. I was the heaviest I’ve ever been when I was bulimic. I think people thought because I wasn’t playing soccer anymore, I wasn’t working out like that. When you are binging and purging, your hormones are so thrown off that your body — I was just in a bloated version of myself. Everything gets out of whack. I wasn’t skinny. I was struggling. I had depression.

I finally got out of that by channeling my obsessive nature towards something else. As you know, you read the book, it wasn’t the healthiest thing. I became obsessive about my boyfriend at the time, my husband now. I had to make sure he wasn’t cheating on me. He was a professional athlete. I would go on all the websites and put in his name and make sure he wasn’t cheating. When that obsession got funneled into my relationship, my eating disorder kind of fell away. It wasn’t like one day I was like, I’m not going to do this anymore. It was just, I was obsessing on something else, and I stopped. It’s been almost fifteen years. I don’t think five years ago I could’ve — I wouldn’t have told anybody. I wouldn’t have written the story. It was just like, I got done with it. Thank god nobody found out about it. Moving on. Then I went from that to literally, as you know in the book, describing how I used to do it. It’s freeing. I feel lighter. I have this tribe of women now that have reached out to me and said, you’re the only person that I’ve told that I had an eating disorder. My husband doesn’t know. Now I feel a responsibility to these women to keep them motivated and inspired. I share workouts and nutrition tips. I’m not a professional at any of those. I’m just someone who has been in the trenches and come out on the other side. I just want to hopefully inspire someone that is still in it that they can get out.

Zibby: Wow. I feel like keeping a big secret like that, there is something so corrosive about this rotting secret inside you that kind of seeps into everything. You can’t ever really be yourself if there’s a huge piece of yourself that’s always cloaked. I feel like I keep hearing this. When you have secrets that finally come to light, like you were saying, it’s completely life changing. I’m so happy to hear that there are women out there who are getting that light in their lives because they’re confiding in you. How amazing is that? It’s just amazing.

Erin: It is. I self-published this book. I was like, I don’t even know if anybody’s going to see this book. I’m telling you, it makes it to the people that needed it. I just market it myself on my Instagram. Some people, oh, I want to get in shape. I have three kids. I don’t have time to work out. Then they’ll read. They don’t know that my story is what it was. They’ll be like, oh, my god. A girl, she played soccer, she’s like, “I’m reading my story.” She just got hope from it. I don’t know how it made it to her, but I’m telling you, Zibby, it makes it to the women that need it. Hopefully, it continues to do that.

Zibby: That’s the power of books. It’s so inspiring because there’s nothing that helps people as much as one person’s story to another. Like you said, it was in your head. Then suddenly, it’s on the page. It’s like magic. It’s so cool.

Erin: I know. I have goosebumps.

Zibby: Right? It’s just amazing. Then you end up helping other people. It’s incredible. It’s awesome.

Erin: You want to hear your big thing? For me, it was shameful. It’s gross. What I was doing, I didn’t want people to know that. That was my big thing, like you said, that big, corrosive secret. Once that was out, now I share everything. I have a podcast now. I don’t want anyone to feel alone because I felt alone for so many years. If you are coming on my podcast or coming on my Instagram page, you are not ever going to leave feeling alone. I share just how hard this pandemic has been. I have a five and a two-year-old who have been basically quarantined with me since March. I’m losing it. I’m not doing a good job. I want to share that just in case some other mom who’s looking at Instagram and all these beautifully manufactured pages, that everybody’s got it together, not everyone has it together. Don’t ever feel like you have to pretend like you do. Now I share everything, probably too much, but just so someone doesn’t feel alone because I did for so many years.

Zibby: It’s beautiful. That’s really amazing. I have a six-year-old, seven-year-old, and two thirteen-year-olds. I also have lost it so many times, this pandemic. I completely relate. Although, a two-year-old, gosh, that’s a totally different stage. I feel you. That’s tough. That is tough.

Erin: He’s physically dependent on me. He’s in Pull-Ups. They don’t understand. My brand was built during the pandemic. Usually, I’m just home with them. Now I’m doing this. They see me. They’re like, “Mommy, Mommy.” You don’t want to be like — they don’t understand. It’s the mom guilt then. At the end of the day, I want to cry. I’m praying for presence. Be locked in with them tomorrow. Then the next day starts. I try so hard, but what else is this world going to drop on us? It’s a pandemic. We decided not to send them back to school. It’s hard. Squats and Margaritas is all about balance, finding that work-life balance where you still feel like a good mom. You were locked in with your kids. You’re not just thinking about work. It’s finding that balance. That’s what I talk about on my podcast every week. I have a mom come on. We just share best practices. How are you doing this? Successful moms like you — you’re an author. You have four kids. I’m turning this into my show. I have a question for you, Zibby.

Zibby: Great. I’ll come on. Now I can go on your show. We can just keep going back and forth all day. This is great. I can ask eating stuff.

Erin: We need to get into the “Moms Don’t Have Time to Lose Weight,” but I think just having these authentic and open conversations help women so much to be like, oh, my god, me too. Oh, my god, I’m not the only one. I’m not a bad mom. No, we’re all struggling. We just need to say it out loud.

Zibby: I’m totally with you. I couldn’t agree more. By the way, I’m doing the same thing as you. I have two kids doing remote school in the next room, six and seven. I wasn’t even dressed until two seconds ago because I was running back and forth. “Oh, no, I cut part of the page that you printed for me this morning. Mom, my teacher says — my mom doesn’t have the page.” I’m like, seriously? I had it all organized. I’m in it. I do come in here and close the door, but I’ll tell you, this is the key to my own sanity. I bet you feel the same in some way. People are like, how do you do it all? I’m like, well, I do it all because if I didn’t do this and if I didn’t have this, I couldn’t go back out there and be functional, honestly.

Erin: It’s your creative outlet. It’s something for you. Yes, that’s your sanity. I didn’t have that for so long. For me, it is working out.

Zibby: I didn’t either. I started this three years ago. Then you know what you were like before you had the sanity. Me on the floor playing all day was not my best self, which is okay. I don’t regret it. It’s just like I was a different person.

Erin: That’s so funny. My husband and I — honestly, he’s still like, “Are you sure you want to be doing this right now when they’re so young?” He’s down in the other room. I’m like, “I need this.” When I just put something out there creatively or get a message, like I said, and I’m helping someone, I know that this is what I’m supposed to do. It is hard with my kids. I did make it harder on myself by taking this on, but like you said, I need it for me. It’s my outlet. Then I can go back to my kids a little bit more sane than if I were twenty-four/seven just being a stay-at-home mom, not that there’s anything wrong with that. I needed some sort of creative outlet. I found it doing this.

Zibby: Podcasting is the secret sauce. It’s true. It’s so easy. It’s basically free. You get a microphone. I’m such as huge fan.

Erin: You know what happened with mine, though? I don’t know if you know. During the pandemic, I would just go live on my Instagram. I didn’t have a show. I didn’t have anything. I was like, I’m drowning. What is everybody doing? I would just have moms come on. I started having guests. I made this little talk show on Instagram live. Every Thursday night, it was like, grab a margarita. We’re just going to talk about it. It was maybe something that you would just look forward to at the end of the day. This is a pandemic, but at least I can have a cocktail. We can all commiserate together. WTOP, a radio station in DC, their program director was watching every week. I had no idea. Then after one of my shows, my little IG Lives, she called me and was like, “We would love for you to do a podcast for us.” I got this equipment. I do this every week. Then they put it on PodcastOne. It literally came out of nowhere. I do have two young kids. It is hard, but I wasn’t going to pass up on that opportunity because this is what I feel like I’m supposed to be doing.

Zibby: That’s amazing. I love that.

Erin: That’s how my show came about.

Zibby: Oh, my gosh, but you did make your show happen. You did do all that work. It’s just, you didn’t have it as a goal. You still did all the work. That’s so cool.

Erin: It’s the universe, like we were talking about. You put something out there. You never know who’s watching. I didn’t.

Zibby: I did the same thing in the pandemic. Not to keep being like, me too, but I did the same.

Erin: No, you’re not.

Zibby: I did the same thing. I did an Instagram Live show because I was like, I can help authors. I can do that. I’m used to this. This is what I do all day anyway. I’ve got to help people more. My primary thing was helping the authors, but also helping the moms. Then I had some people on my team who actually are no longer on my team who were like, “Maybe you should stop the Instagram Lives. Your followers aren’t going up that much. Not that many people tune in.” I’m like, that’s not what it’s about. If I have twenty-five people and they then go on to lead completely different lives that day or just take one thing from something the author said or maybe something I said or the combination of our conversation or something and it helps them in some way, that’s amazing. Helping one life is amazing. I’m not a celebrity. That’s not what my shtick is. It’s just micro-change, I guess.

Erin: A hundred percent. That’s when your account grows, when you are authentically yourself and just doing it to help people. You can tell when people are just fishing for — you’re not in a bikini, like, happy Monday, people just fishing.

Zibby: That would be the fastest turnoff to my account ever. Everyone would unsubscribe.

Erin: That’s why people tune in. That’s why your account is growing and why you have the brand that you do now, because you were authentic and your why was to help people, not to grow your account.

Zibby: I love it. It’s so great.

Erin: You’re like, can we talk about working out at some point during this episode? We have not said anything yet.

Zibby: It’s okay. I started this whole thing in September because I had put on weight during the pandemic. I’ve been up and down my whole life. I won’t even get into my own stuff, but I’ve had all sorts of stuff along the way and have ended up in this place where I would like to just have other people who want to feel better in their bodies at this stage in their life and get inspiration from hearing stories. It’s not always the end. We can always reinvent. That’s what I found so powerful about the end of your book in particular, not necessarily the tips themselves. Although, those were great, but you can get tips anywhere. The power of your story was how you came into what worked for you and the fact that you can do it now. There’s always now to change things and find something that works. Tell me a little more about, you basically learned that you have to actually eat more to be fitter and that your body was holding onto everything.

Erin: To tell someone that had an eating disorder past, oh, just eat more and you’ll lose weight, that’s not what women are taught. I feel like women are taught, restrict your calories. Eat salads. Do your cardio. It’s calories in versus calories out. As long as you’re working out more than you’re taking in, you’ll lose weight. That’s what women are taught. When I got done with my eating disorder mess, I thought I was doing it the right way. I’m not binging and purging. I was still restricting, but not to the — I was eating carrots. I was not the point like that. I would never ever look at any other section of a menu than salads because it was like, no, you get a salad, dressing on the side. I would do cardio seven days a week. I was twenty pounds heavier than I am now. I was at a gym and my — he wasn’t my trainer. It’s a group fitness class. He was just one of the trainers. He’s like, “You just seem so frustrated.” I explained. I was like, “I only eat salads. I’m barely eating. I do cardio every day.” He’s like, “You just need to eat more. You’re starving. That’s why you’re not losing weight.” I was like, “What are you talking about?” He’s like, “As much as you’re working out, your body is holding onto all of it because it doesn’t know when you’re going to eat next. Your body goes into starvation mode for survival.” He used MyFitnessPal. If anybody can download that or any kind of app like that where you put in all your information, how often you’re working out, what your goal weight is, your lifestyle. Are you sitting at a desk? Are you chasing a two-year-old boy? All the things. It calculates how much you should be eating.

I found out in that moment that I was undereating by nine hundred calories a day. He’s like, “Your body needs this to work for your metabolism to turn back on.” I trusted it, which, again, was so hard for me with all my eating disorder past. I just started eating often. I mean, every two hours. You can eat healthy, but eat more. My metabolism turned back on. Zibby, I forgot what it was like to feel hungry because I just lived in a state of, well, this is what I need to do. I didn’t really listen to my body. I started feeling hungry all the time because my metabolism turned back on. I lost five pounds the first week. For me to lose any pounds was just incredible because I couldn’t lose. I was working out so hard. That was the first thing. It was eating more, turning back on your metabolism. Eat every couple hours. Also, you want to get protein and carbs. Eat healthy. It’s hard to hear, eat all the time. If you’re eating healthy food, it’s what your body needs. You will start feeling hungry again. You will turn back on your metabolism. Another component to it is water, drinking a ton of water because you have to stay hydrated. That will also boost your metabolism. Then the other component to it was weightlifting. I think women have such stigma. I don’t want to bulk up. I don’t want to be like a bodybuilder. Your body is not going to do that naturally. The women that look like that eat a very specific diet to look like that, train a certain way. Your body will not do that. What’s really funny, what changed things for me — I wanted to tone. I didn’t want to be bulky, so I would always stick to really light weights like fives or tens. That’s not super light, but I would never think about lifting heavier because I didn’t want to bulk up. It wasn’t until I started lifting much heavier that I got muscle tone. Finally, I got that tone that women are trying to get with the smaller weights. Your body tones when you lift heavier. Obviously, get there gradually. I got muscle tone. I also increased my metabolism with that.

When you put muscle on your body, you increase your resting metabolism. Moms don’t have time to work out. You’re burning while you’re not working out because your resting metabolism is — everything just changed. I started eating more and lifting heavy. I lost twenty pounds. I’ve been able to maintain it through two pregnancies. I’m thirty-nine now. It’s like my body just trusts me now. It knows I’m going to eat when I’m hungry. A lot of it is intuitive eating. I really check in with myself. If I’m hungry, I eat. You don’t have to eat everything on the plate and sit in front of a TV and just check out and eat until everything’s gone. Now I eat when I’m hungry. I check in. Do I need to finish this? Sometimes I’ll finish it an hour later. I’ll finish it, but not all at once, just checking in with yourself and being mindful. Mindful eating, lifting heavy, and eating often changed everything for me. I had to write the book because I don’t feel like women are taught to do it that way. We are taught cardio and restrict. That failed me. I was like, all right, now I have the secret. I’m going to put this book out. I’m also going to put my story at the beginning so I have a little bit of credibility that I didn’t always live this way and that it works. The balance aspect of life, I work out super hard maybe four times a week, not every day, but I also have a margarita daily — it may not be a margarita for you; red wine — something that I look forward to and want so that I don’t feel deprived. Then I don’t quit. Before, I was always on some kind of diet. You go to a birthday party or you go to a wedding. You have something. You’ll have a glass of wine. You have a piece of cake. It’s like, I’m off the wagon. Might as well just eat the whole cake now. You give yourself permission to just eat that way for the weekend. I’ll start over on Monday. If you live with balance, have a cookie in the morning. Don’t have one at night. If I have a beer at happy hour, don’t have one with dinner. You just make those little swaps of balance during the day. It becomes a lifestyle. You don’t have to start over. There’s no starting over. It’s just how you live your life with balance.

Zibby: You make it sound so easy.

Erin: It took me twenty years, as you know, to find it.

Zibby: I know. I know. I’m glad, also, you put your story because then people won’t look at you and just automatically be so jealous that they hate you. Do you know what I mean?

Erin: You said something earlier about just feeling better in your body. As a mom, you know if you’re not feeling good about your body, nobody’s going to be happy. No one in the house is going to be happy because it reflects on all of your relationships. When I was heavier and I was so frustrated that I was — I’m working out. I would fight with my husband. There was always this tension. Now that I’m happier in my body, nothing really gets me down as much anymore because that was such a cloud hovering over me. It was like, it doesn’t matter if something good is happening. I’m frustrated that I haven’t lost this weight.

Zibby: Back to your obsessive nature, it’s almost like it doesn’t matter that that was what it was. It was that you were pursuing a goal and you couldn’t achieve it. It could’ve been that you were trying to, I don’t know, run a marathon in a certain amount of time and no matter what you did, you couldn’t do it. It just so happens that this is what you set your mind to do, and you couldn’t. I feel like it could’ve been anything.

Erin: Yes. I know a lot of women where it’s the weight that frustrates them. They’re just in a tense state. They’re always frustrated. They can’t really be happy because they’re not happy in their body. I get it. For twenty years, sixteen to thirty-six, I was a hot mess. Everything was awry until thirty-seven when that trainer was like, “You need to eat more.” I actually did it. Then I figured out the weightlifting component. You don’t need to be in the gym and be obsessive. This is another component to it. I lived my life in a state of stress. I’d go on vacation and be like, I got to get a workout in. My body was always stressed out. When you’re in a state of stress, your body produces cortisol, a stress hormone that makes your body hold onto fat, especially around your belly. Me being obsessive and restrictive and thinking about it all the time was working against me. Now I just can breathe. I know that I’m not going to binge anymore because I practice mindful eating. I have a cookie or something with my coffee every morning. I didn’t when I was going through the weight loss. Once you can get to a point of balance and you do that by eating healthy but eating often, lifting, drinking a lot of water, and you turn your metabolism on, then you can just live in a state of balance; know that, yeah, I had a cookie at breakfast, but I also ran four miles today. You just balance it. You live a healthier, calmer lifestyle. I swear, it was like my body just released the weight because I wasn’t so tense anymore. I feel like I need to say I’m not a nutritionist. I’m not a trainer. I’m a thirty-nine-year-old mom who figured this out a little bit later in life and want to help that woman that is frustrated and is maybe doing it the way that we are taught to do it. Try this. Try it this way. I know it doesn’t sound right because it’s not what we were told, but it works. Balance works.

Zibby: Erin, tell people listening, in case you just reached that woman and she’s sitting there listening and being like, that’s me, what is your Instagram so they can follow you?

Erin: Squats and Margaritas. I have a blog, squatsandmargaritas.com. I’ve got recipes there. The book is Squats and Margaritas. The podcast is “Squats and Margaritas,” all about the balance. I get it that you’re hesitant. I was super hesitant. If somebody is thinking, no, I have to work out seven days a week — I wouldn’t take off days. You couldn’t pay me to not work out. I was so obsessive. I didn’t lose the weight until I stopped living like that. I say in the book, step by step, how I got there and then how I live now, just balanced living now. When you go to a restaurant, smart ordering at a restaurant. Cocktails, you can have a cocktail. I think women think, I don’t know, I’m trying to lose weight. If you don’t, like I said, at some point you’re going to have one. Then you’re going to go off the rails and be like, I quit. I failed in my diet. It’s not a diet. It’s a lifestyle of balance.

Zibby: I feel like I could talk to you all day and share stories. I feel like we’re just getting started here.

Erin: I know.

Zibby: You live in DC, right?

Erin: I do. You’re in New York?

Zibby: I’m in New York, but whatever. That’s not so far. I’m sure we will meet at some point.

Erin: I would love for you to come on my podcast.

Zibby: Thank you. I’d love to.

Erin: We can continue.

Zibby: Yes, to be continued. Lots to swap. We didn’t even get into — I’m married to a former professional athlete myself. He used to play professional tennis and taught tennis for twelve years. Not like you, but my husband had to deal with what it was like to stop being that type of athlete. That’s a whole nother situation. To be continued, but I am so excited to have connected with you. I am thrilled that you wrote this book and that you are taking the time now. It doesn’t matter how old your kids you are. I love that you are closing the door and doing this because this is what you need to be doing. I think it’s awesome.

Erin: It’s nice to hear that. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Zibby: Now we can both go back to our kids in the next rooms and feel a little more energized. Hopefully, people listening feel the same way, right?

Erin: Yes. Thank you so much, Zibby.

Zibby: Thank you. Thank you so much. Have a great day.

Erin: You too.

Zibby: Bye.

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