Zibby interviews leading behavioral scientist and author Dr. Zelana Montminy about FINDING FOCUS: Own Your Attention in an Age of Distraction, a wake-up call to take back your mind—and your life! They dive into the modern epidemic of distraction, how our attention is constantly hijacked by devices and cultural noise, and why focus—not time—is our most valuable resource. Dr. Montminy shares practical ways to reclaim clarity, rebuild mental fitness, and reconnect with what matters most—without shame or overwhelm.

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome, Dr. Zelana. Thank you so much for coming on Totally Booked with Zibby to discuss your latest book Finding Focus, which I have to say, I read part of it with my son next to me, like trying to get my attention, and I'm like, oh my gosh, she's literally writing about her being distracted and trying to get that her kid getting her attention, and I'm like reading the book and being distracted by it. So I don't know. It felt very meta to me. But anyway. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: Oh, I love it. I love it. Well that's, isn't that what we're all dealing with now? 

Zibby: Yes. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: Oh my goodness.

Zibby: Exactly. Tell listeners about the book. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: Well, I mean, the book really is. Less a productivity book and more about just what it means to be human, um, in today's day and age. And I really feel like the most valuable resource now isn't time. It's really our attention and it's completely getting hijacked by notifications and what you're talking about, like constant, you know, things happening and we're drowning in.

Nonstop distractions. And we are all feeling this so deeply and I keep hearing, you know, clients and everyone saying, I'm so burnt out, I'm anxious, I'm this, I'm that. And I really feel like at the core of it all is our inability to sustain focus. And we just are, I, I, you know, relentlessly pulled in so many different directions and the cultural noise and everything happening that our brain just can't really.

Sort of digest. Um, and so it's really much more than just stealing our time. Our lack of focus is, is more about sort of just what it's doing to our relationships, our relationship with each other ourselves, our mental health, and our ability to really live with intention. So that's really what the book speaks to the most.

Zibby: You coined this phrase, or I hadn't heard it before, like focus thieves. Like what are the things that that take your..,

Dr. Zelana Montminy: Right. 

Zibby: Attention from you regularly? And there are just so many of them, but I feel like part of your book is getting us to at least pay attention to the fact that that is what they are. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: Right. Right. Exactly. And the world is really engineered in so many ways to do that to us. So it's really less about. You know, I mean, what it, it is what we sort of allow, but it's, it's not, I don't want people to feel ashamed about it. 'cause I feel like there's a little element of the, of shame. Like, oh, I'm triple, I'm triple screening. Like, I, you know, I'm binge watching Netflix and buying groceries and emailing at the same time. Um, and it's kind of this like, quiet thing, but really it's like, we're just,...

Zibby: Was there something wrong with that? Do, does everybody not do that? Like, how else do we get it all done? 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: Everybody does it, but is that really the, the way to function?

Does it really feel good? And, and I think we're seeing now, especially over the years as this has played out, it's not, it's really not, and we're exhausted by it. We are just trying to, you know, swim against this massive current of, of, of distraction. And I think, you know, listen, it, it's, and it's not, yes, of course a big piece of this is devices, but it's really the way that we've.

Sort of engineered our days and our, our life. I mean, everything feels so urgent. I mean, I don't know about you, but to me at least, and to everyone I work with, it's like there's this, this false sense of urgency that wears on us constantly and, and now. We really live in this, like in-between state, we live like we're between our digital life and our physical life, and we're sort of like here and we're kind of grabbing at everything, right?

And trying to keep up to the text messages, the dms, the, the emails, the real live people coming at us all the time. And then there's us and it's like, wait, where does that leave me? And how do I even begin to be regulated within all of this, and that's really what the book speaks to and is sort of the antidote for.

Zibby: And you bring up early on because, uh, A DHD and what is A DHD versus just what has happened to most everybody at this point with.

Attention fragmentation. How do we know where the line is drawn? 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: Right. 

Zibby: How do we cope with that? You know, I feel like everybody's always like, oh my gosh. I'm like, so A D H D, but they don't actually have A DHD like, and how do you know? So. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: Yeah, and I think really like if, if, if your inability to sustain focus goes beyond. Like the, the sort of the surface stuff that we're talking about and really impacts your work product and you truly cannot sustain focus even when you attune to it. It requires, you know, a deeper dive with a professional or a team to kind of look at that and, and figure that out for yourselves. I think that, you know, it's impossible to self-diagnose in today's context because yes, we all struggle with attention for sure. Um, and so, but it, but there really is. You know, separately a diagnosis and, and, and many do require medication and that's, that's something different that, you know, I'm not speaking directly to in this book. It's really more for every single one of us who is constantly task switching, is really who, who I speak to and certainly can be helpful for those of us with A DHD, but not specifically geared toward that. Entirely, you know? 

Zibby: Can I read part of this social post that you had that went viral and all the rest of it, but the ache of being awake? 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: Sure. 

Zibby: Is that okay? 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: Oh.

Zibby: Yeah. Okay. The ache of being awake, I think I am grieving, not a person, but a framework, a shared sense of decency, of clarity, of what's right and what's way off.

Lately, everything feels a little untethered, and I don't think I'm the only one feeling it. This isn't burnout, it's heartbreak without a name. Oh my gosh. Love that. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: Yeah. 

Zibby: Talk to me a bit, a little bit about that. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: That is, you know, me speaking to sort of what I, what I personally felt deep inside, but also clearly what everyone seems to be feeling. I mean, that reached millions and millions of people and resonated deeply. You know, I think that we are all dealing with some level of grief and again. I think that we think of grief as like this major event in our life, whether we lose a person, a home, a place like whatever it is. But we experience loss sort of on a human level all the time, and we don't really learn how to process it.

We, we kind of, because we live this such a fast-paced life and we're always struggling to keep up, we don't give ourselves those micro moments of integration. And I say that very specifically because it's not really like a lot of people have sort of. Talked about, well, I need to slow down. I need to just like plug out, I need to go take a break.

I need to go on a vacation. Whatever it is. I'm not, we don't always have time for that. Right? We also don't necessarily have the financial means to do that. There are so many ways to process our, our, our losses and our feelings without necessarily taking these like huge timeouts in our life, which just aren't sustainable.

'Cause we still have to parent and work and function right. So I want us to kind of step away from that. And I, I really talk a lot more about, and this post speaks to the fact that, you know, it's about those, those little ways that we can integrate and process the things that we're feeling and, and at first it comes.

It. It has to do with being like aware of what we're struggling with. Right. And the fact that the world feels really surreal right now. There's a lot to grief, you know, and there's a lot, there's a lot of loss. There's a loss of also in this post and many posts that have spoken to so many, it's. I talk a lot about sort of mourning the moral framework that we used that was just sort of a given, right?

And so now it's like what do we, what do we believe? Who do we trust? Like where, what do we, what's our commonality anymore to being human? And so that's a lot of what this post is also speaking to. 

Zibby: My gosh. So what? What do we do once we've identified that? Yes, you're a hundred percent right. Our focus is fragmented. We can't even, it's rare to sustain a conversation. I feel sometimes that I've created this podcast so that I have an excuse to pay attention to one thing for at least 30 minutes. A day, right? Because it is like uninterrupted and I can't, you know, 'cause we, I, I do feel like we all crave it on some level too, but how do we get it in our lives?

Dr. Zelana Montminy: That we crave focus.

Zibby: We crave. Yes. The, just the..,

Dr. Zelana Montminy: Right. 

Zibby: The limits of, of all the things that are frying us away. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: Well, and I love that you, I love that you said that because our brain needs sustained focus in order to function and to thrive. And we've really walked away from that. And that's why so many of us find ourselves so exhausted and depleted constantly.

'Cause it's, it's not because of how much we're doing, it's really more about are we actually there when we're doing any of it? Right? Are we just going through the motions and our brain really needs that focus and the sustained attention in little snippets to do its best work. And we've lost touch with that.

We've sort of glorified multitasking when in fact we're not really, that means we're not really doing anything that well or as well as we could be. Um, and, and, and we, we've sort of created this myth of productivity and that's what makes us great and successful. And, and really it's just a mask. It's a mask for us to. It's not addressed, like what we actually need to focus on. And so there's, there's a lot to work with here. I think, you know, I think fundamentally it's much more than just managing your devices, which so many people love to speak to. And of course there's an element of that. But the, the book really is, is more of a sort of scientifically backed map to coming back to understanding what the root causes are of your distraction. 'Cause that's kind of where it starts, is like, what do we really need to address and then. Through tools that we often forget, like we're so focused on all of these hacks and wellness tricks and things. It's like, let's just go back to the basics and simplify what it means to be human.

You can do all the hacks in the world and all the red lights and all the green juices and all the things, but if you're not sleeping well and having like basic nutritional, you know, uh, foundation and, and, and all of those, those things like you, you won't be able to focus you, you won't get your, your health back.

Right? So it's really about retraining the fundamentals too, which people sometimes are surprised by, but, but. It matters, you know, movement, those restorative breaks. And then also really big one is social connectivity. Sort of reclaiming what it means to have friendships, like real friendships and going deeper than, you know, what social media makes us sort of feel is satisfying, but really isn't.

You know, we have tons of connections online and through these groups probably that we belong to and all these different things, but it's very, very surface and it tricks our brain into thinking. That we're okay and we're, we have lots of friends, but we really, we, we crave the depth and that's what we're glazing over and that's really costing us a lot.

So I talk, you know, a lot about that and, and how to sort of focus on the social connectivity that we so desperately need. And really a lot of attention also comes down to training. Right. Like we've trained our brain for distraction. We crave distraction because that's how our brain has learned to function.

And our brain is a muscle. And so what we practice really grows in those, the neuroplasticity, right? Those connections strengthen. So what we really need to do now is sort of retrain our brain with sort of the mental and emotional fitness of how to be attuned and intentionally. Attentive in little moments. And again, it's not, it's, I'm not talking about for hours and hours and end, by the way, that's not human either. Like we can't actually do that successfully. 

Zibby: I remember a couple years ago a friend came over with her husband and like the guys were off talking or something, and she's like, I haven't even spent a minute with my husband. She's like, but you know, I did read somewhere that all you have to do is like have sustain eye contact for like 30 seconds. And it'll change your relationship. She's like, so every day I just like have a timer and I look at my husband in the eye for like 30 seconds so that I know I'm paying attention to, and I was like, okay.

Dr. Zelana Montminy: And that, that honestly can, those are those micro things that I talk about that are really important. Those tiny, tiny moments. It's like our kids, like they don't need hours and hours on, on end of our attention. They need moments of clarity. They need, they need sustained focus, but it doesn't have to be extensive. 

Right? Just enough to, to fill their emotional bank account. That I like to say, you know, so again, it's about like how do you create focus within the context of your life and prioritize the things that really matter to you. So it's not about plugging out of your daily life and completely like recalibrating everything necessarily right away, right?

It's about how do we. Sort of rebuild mental clarity within whatever you're dealing with, right? And the human experience. Like it's a lot, it's a lot every day that we're all dealing with. And so it's about those, those moments and really focusing on those fundamentals and, and, and those are all the things I talk about in the book.

Zibby: Wow. So how did you become, how did you become an expert in this? How did you become an architect of change with Maria Shriver? Like how did you get, how did you get millions of people liking all your posts? Like where did, where did this all come from, and was this where you thought life was headed for you?

Dr. Zelana Montminy: Well, I mean, I, I was always very curious about human behavior and knew that's something I wanted to study and focus on since I was a young kid and sort of where my sweet spot was with friends and kind of talking through what they're going through. So I, I always had an empath, you know, that's just how I function. I feel deeply, and I, I, I wanna help. But I think, you know, I, I, I was going for a clinical route and then. You know, sort of media caught on and, and, and, and things went from there, you know, and it's, it's just, I'm just feel so, so blessed and so, so honored that my words, um, are resonating with so many, articulate what it means to be human these days.

And I'm trying really hard to do that. Um, and I think that that matters. Putting words to something that's, that oftentimes is very hard to. To understand and, and the more we can understand and sort of address what we're dealing with, the less power things have over us. So that's really what I'm trying, uh, what I'm doing and I'm just, I'm just really grateful.

I think, you know, I, my first book is about resilience and the power of, of that and what it means and the skillset of building that up and, you know, over time. So many clients, and you know, I do, I do a lot of talks and to groups and different organizations, and I realize, you know, so many people are just utterly exhausted.

Even like the ones who have, you know, who can outsource help and people who are in really, you know, high executive positions, like no matter what socioeconomic air, you know, it's like, it just spans everything. And everyone, and I really started peeling the layers. Like, where is this? Actually coming from, it can't just be that all of a sudden we just have so much more to do as people.

And so I, you know, when I started to really look at it all, it was very clear to me that our lack of attention and inability to focus is, is becoming sort of an epidemic of this generation. And, and that's where I wanted to really dig into and do the research and do the work. And it became very clear, very quickly that this is something we need to really talk about and, and work on and work toward.

Zibby: So do your kids give you a hard time about like, not focusing when this is like your life's work? Like do they, I feel like my kids would do that. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: I listen. I think that's part of why my words resonate with people. Like I'm right there with you, by the way, like, I've got three kids, I've got young kids. I am, I've got a career. I'm, I'm doing it with you and I get it. I am not. Far from perfect. I look at my phone when my kids are talking too, you know, it's like, I know I shouldn't, but I do. And we have very open conversations about that and how hard this is. And we talk about what it feels like to feel torn and to feel urgent and that everything is an emergency when it's not and, and so I think the key isn't about perfection at all. It's more just about talking through what this all means and how do we work with it. How do we work, work it into our lives, how do we do better, right? And so I think articulating our own process as parents and as humans, and it's like, oops, that's not how I wanted to handle that. Sorry, let me put my phone down.

I was in the middle of an email. But what you have to say is important, so let's talk through that. You know what I mean? And just kind of being really open about it and yeah, they hold me accountable for. Like, we just had a, a conversation about it yesterday. It's like, you know, um, and I have a 12-year-old, so he's on the cusp of teen hood and, and a 10-year-old girl and a 5-year-old. And so we, I'm in all the ages and stages, right. And it's, it's certainly a lot. But again, it's, it's really about, I think so many of us feel so guilty and ashamed. And, um, I, I want to really normalize this as something that we're all struggling with and we all can help each other break, break free from, and it require, it requires a little bit of thought. But then it'll become second nature. 

Zibby: So I have four kids, including a 10 and 12-year-old. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: Oh awesome. 

Zibby: So maybe they can all get together in LA sometime and, you know, make fun of us and just focus their attention on each other and we'll see. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: Right? 

Zibby: We'll, we'll see if they've, if we've taught them anything along the way. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: Well, I mean, if you, if you really watch kids doing what kids do best, which is play together and really engage with each other, it really is. Amazing sort of how much they zone in on each other. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: When they're just in the flow of childhood. Right. When there's nothing else going on and there's no devices and, and they're just playing. Even our, you know, our 13-year-old or 12, almost 13-year-old, when he gets together with his friends or his, his teams or whatever, it's like they're just in it.

Zibby: Yes. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: And that's where I see so much joy. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: I, I think we've forgotten so many of us feel so resentful in our like, on edge. Yes. Because life is tough and yes, because, you know, we have unprocessed emotions and we can't really regulate in the context of our lives, but also because. What we've missed is that focus also cultivates joy.

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: We're there, we're actually feeling what it feels like to connect and to love and to appreciate and to play and to have fun or whatever it is. Right. And to talk. And that's why it feels so good to, I dunno, vent to a friend or whatever it is. Like those are those micro moments that you're like, wait, I feel much better.

Why? It's not just because I dumped my negativity on someone else. It's because. I, it's a shared connection. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: It's, we're connecting, it's a shared experience and so I think, I think kids really can be mirrors to us as well. 

Zibby: This is why I felt so much better after an epic round of sharks and minnows with my youngest, so.

Dr. Zelana Montminy: Right.

Zibby: You know, because they can do it forever, you know, once they're in it. Yeah. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: When they're in it, they're in it and, and it's like they, it's, they have a hard time plugging out and we're sort of in the reverse as, as grownups and it's like, how do we kind of. Trace back the steps, right, and retrain ourselves for, for that intentionality again.

Zibby: But what, and what do you do though in times of real trauma, like after the fire and the Palisades and having to shift gears and move and all of that. I mean, this is like, it's hard enough just to have regular focus, but then when life is upended, which happens to so many people in all different terrible ways, not to be depressing, then what?

Dr. Zelana Montminy: Absolutely. And it happened to us and, and, and Texas and all the things and all the time, you know that that's survival mode and that's really just. Really just you, there's, there's not much more you can do in those particular moments of acute trauma. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: Other than one moment, moment by moment. It's like one foot in front of the other. Even just something as simple as like making a coffee can be huge for the day, and that's okay. You know, and so you move through that and it restructures you and I think it's insanely painful and difficult and. Also reprograms what is important to you in a lot of ways and illuminates a lot. And there's also a lot of beauty and connection that comes from pain.

And I think if we let it, it can be a very powerful, changing experience in whatever way. And, and, and yes, painful. And that's part of being human too, is the discomfort of the pain, um, that we go through. And the recalibration. But I think, you know, focusing on what you can control in those moments and knowing, and, and, and letting go too, like no, you're not gonna be productive and particularly focused. And yes, your screen can provide comfort because you're connecting with your community or whatever it is. So gifting yourself a little more grace, of course, during the acute trauma phases is critical. 

Zibby: Amazing. Well, thank you so much. I have loved reading your book. I also, by the way, was surprised. I was like. What I have to eat better sleep, better to focus. No, I didn't. I wanna continue eating sugar all the time, but no, I'm kidding. But, uh, no, I love it and I love the message and I love just the simplicity of it, that if you're searching for joy, just focus on something for a while, do something deeply. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: Yeah. 

Zibby: And it sounds so, you know, it sounds so simple, but it's not. And it's right there at your fingertips. Doesn't even cost anything. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: It doesn't. You're right. And, and, and, and sure. The book is a guide a a map and it gives you all sorts of tools, but I was very cautious of providing too much. I don't wanna overwhelm the system because often our brain says, well no, that's too much work.

Right. And I think that in this world, we're fed so many. Things to do and hacks. Like I remember I was lecturing at UCLA at the graduate school and all these students came up to me and they, they said, oh my God, I, can you just tell me like, the one thing I have to start, like I have so much on my to-do list of like all these things I have to do to be healthy and well and mentally well, and like.

And they looked so hopeless, like they literally didn't even know where to begin because it is like, there's so many hacks and there's so many, there's like red lights, cold plunging. Like she was literally listening. She's like, I, I need a sauna, but I can't afford a sauna, but I don't know where to go for a sauna. And I said, babe, you don't need a sauna. 

Zibby: Literally yesterday somebody told me to like start doing cold plunges and I was like, I'm just not gonna do, I'm not gonna do that. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: You do cold plunge and sauna and all the things and you can fit that in and you've created a lifestyle in which that works for you. By all means, great. 

Zibby: Yes. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: But for those of us who can't and don't, please don't think that we need to do all of that to be, well, we need to get back to the basics of being human first. Let's master that. Let's go back to the basics and the simplicity of what it means to focus and connect. And that's really what this book is about, and that's what I wanna be talking about. We need to change the narrative. Big time. 

Zibby: I love it. Thank you so much. Thank you. This has been so fun and I am inspired for renewed focus and really renewed. Deepening the meaning of all the everyday interactions. So thank you. 

Dr. Zelana Montminy: Good. Good, good, good. Well, we'll keep in touch. 

Zibby: Okay. Sounds good. Okay. Thank you. Bye-Bye.