Dolly Alderton, GHOSTS

Dolly Alderton, GHOSTS

Dolly Alderton returns to talk about her debut novel, Ghosts, which is now an international bestseller. Dolly and Zibby discuss the book’s snarky but heartening portrayal of mom friends, how they both always find themselves with short-term obsessions, and why those who are chronically late might be the most optimistic people in our lives. Dolly also shares what her experience has been like on set filming the TV adaptation of her memoir, Everything I Know About Love, and some of the new wisdom she has adopted throughout the process.


Zibby Owens: Welcome, Dolly. Thank you so much for coming on “Moms Don’t Have Time to Read Books” for the second time to discuss Ghosts, now an international best seller. So exciting. Congratulations.

Dolly Alderton: Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. I am so impressed with the very, very chic home that Zibby is beaming in. That’s all my Pinterest dreams come true, is your bookshelf.

Zibby: I put this all together myself. I had COVID last February. I was in bed for nine days. I got out, and I came in here. I took every book off every shelf and reorganized and made this colorful wall. I had to touch every book. It was bizarre.

Dolly: What an incredibly industrious and useful way to spend your time suffering from COVID.

Zibby: I think I just was going crazy not seeing anybody for so long.

Dolly: Actually, that’s a good hot tip for someone who’s currently housebound with COVID. Color code your bookshelves.

Zibby: Yes, start reorganizing. You should see what I do with my kids’ room. That’s a whole nother Zoom. Everybody’s is rearranged. Oh, my gosh, I even put the wallpaper you can get from Amazon on my daughter’s room to make it look like pretend bricks. She was all into that. I did all the stuff myself. Sometimes I need to get into it to have some control over something. I don’t know.

Dolly: Yeah, have some control over something. I also think that there’s something that’s so satisfying about DIY, at-home project, because you know that you’re putting all this time into it. You know that you’re going to get this thing guaranteed physically at the end, which you don’t get in other parts of adult life, i.e., relationships, creative endeavors, speculative business propositions. You can plow so much time and love into something and end up with absolutely nothing at the end. There’s something that’s just so satisfying about DIY and gardening. You’re guaranteed to have this physical evidence of your time at the end of it.

Zibby: Yes. It’s so simple but so satisfying. I don’t garden. Do you garden?

Dolly: Do you know what? I went through a big gardening phase a couple of years ago. I did that classic Londoner thing that I’m sure people in New York do. Because none of us can afford outside space, you end up just finding these tiny little square meters of roof or bits of gravel that you then turn into a makeshift garden. On my roof, which isn’t even mine — I think it kind of belongs to the tenets above. I asked them permission. They were like, “Yeah, go for your life.” I put four raised beds. I grew some courgettes and some radishes and herbs. It was very satisfying. Like everything with me, it’s always really exciting. I’m obsessed with it. I think about nothing else for about six months. Then sure enough, they’re now just full of weeds.

Zibby: I have the same thing. I get so excited about everything. Then the next thing comes. I’m like, well, I’m not as excited about this anymore. I said that to my daughter about something. She’s like, “What? You were so into that.” I was like, “I know, but now I’m into this.”

Dolly: I know. I’m the same. I’m exactly the same. I have endless amount of obsession and passion for something. Then I move on.

Zibby: Keeps things interesting, I guess.

Dolly: Keeps things interesting, yeah. It gets stuff done in the short term.

Zibby: Yes, totally. It’s a burst of motivation. Is that how Ghosts came about? Tell me how this book came about.

Dolly: Yes, Ghosts was definitely an absolute obsession that gripped me. It all came about really fast. It’s so funny we should talk about this because it’s the same with gardening. It’s the same with writing. It’s the same with albums. I’m like this with albums. At the moment, I’m only listening to two albums on repeat, and I have done for a month.

Zibby: Which ones?

Dolly: Little Simz’ new album and Clear Soul’s new album. Then thank god Kayne’s album was so shit because it means I can just focus on those two new releases of September. Then I know next month, I won’t listen to them again probably for three years. It’s just a weird part of my personality. I’m interested that you’re the same and that you manage to commit to having a family because I always think, wow, that’s going to be the real test for me. I can’t just go, okay, I think I’m done now. I’m just going to hand these kids over.

Zibby: I will say, I’m divorced and remarried, so I do get breaks every other weekend. Maybe I’ve manufactured that, in a way.

Dolly: It’s so interesting you should say that. You can cut this out if you want because this is obviously a bit of a spicey thing to say. I have dated quite a few single dads. All of them have said the same thing. Obviously, divorce is hugely traumatic and a horrible thing for anyone to go through. The thing that no one talks about is if you’re amicable with your ex-coparent, it does sort of give you the perfect parenting setup.

Zibby: Yeah. It’s very sad when I don’t have my kids, especially in the beginning. Sometimes it feels like my heart is breaking. Other times, I’m like, all right, I’m good. My husband never knows what he’s going to get after I drop them off. Will I be sobbing, or will I be ready to go for drinks? He’s always just like, what’s coming? I don’t know. It’s true. I always say I could not get all the stuff I do done if I weren’t divorced. There’s no way. I go ten days, and then I get a break. That’s really the secret sauce, is being able to sleep and regroup and all of that stuff.

Dolly: The thing that my friends have said that’s so all-encompassing about having kids, which actually does relate back to Ghosts, is that, particularly when you’ve got really, really little children, it’s not so much about loss of time and loss of sleep. It’s about loss of life. It’s about loss of identity. So much of my life in my twenties where I feel like most myself and most like I’m really in my own life and in the funk of my existence is pottering around, is those Saturdays where I go from an exercise class to a really long walk to having lunch with a friend and then walking around the shops or going to the cinema on my own. The thought of all of that being taken away from me, I think it would send me into a bit of an existential funk, really.

Zibby: I think that’s part of why there’s a lot of postpartum depression, anxiety. Not the actual thing. That’s a symptom true mental illness. I mean long-term postpartum, like ten years, twenty years. It’s true. That’s why so many parents are like, brunch, remember brunch? Now I get to go to brunch every other weekend. It’s not that great, but it’s fine.

Dolly: I had it the other day with my friend. She had an afternoon off from her baby, which was the first time that she’d had an afternoon off from her baby. I was like, “What did you do?” thinking she was going to say, I went to this exhibition, I went and ate this, my favorite thing, whatever. She was like, “I just did errands. It was bliss.” She went to the post office. She sorted out her knicker drawer. The idea of that being a luxury in life is quite terrifying, actually.

Zibby: I’m like, oh, I had time to shave my legs without someone knocking on the shower door. That’s so nice. No one interrupted me for two seconds. You’re so funny in this book, by the way, with Katherine. That’s the name of the married friend, right? Katherine with a K?

Dolly: Yes.

Zibby: The way that your main character interacts with her friend is just so classic. You had this one line where she canceled. She said something like, I have to get up in the morning. You’re like, as if the rest of us don’t have to live. You’re so much funnier than me. What did you say? Hold on, let me see if I can find it. I’m going to read this whole paragraph because you’re hilarious. By the way, I have laughed more in this book than I have in so long. Every time I pick it up, I’m like, well, I bet this next section won’t make me laugh. Then it does. I’m like, ah, thank you.

Dolly: Thanks, Zibby.

Zibby: “The next morning, with the sort of hangover that makes you google ashrams, I found myself ten and a half miles away from my sofa and once again on Wandsworth Common against my will. The original plan was for Katherine to come to my flat to help me choose a paint color for my bathroom, then go for a walk and lunch nearby, but at the last minute, she said she couldn’t do the journey because of a childcare glitch. I was totally unsurprised. Such is the superior trump card of motherhood that she once canceled dinner with me an hour before we were meant to meet via a text explaining she had to “wake up in the morning, etc.,” as if being childless gave me an option of not existing for the day.”

Dolly: What a bitch.

Zibby: Oh, my gosh, but you’re so funny, especially when the two of you — I keep saying you. It’s not you. Nina. When Nina and Katherine are over there and she’s trying to fill her time for an hour and a half and just sitting there being like, is this enough? You referred to it as — what did you say? Something like filling up the cart, refilling the gas in the car, or something. Finally, you’re done. You’ve listened enough. You’re like, I’m out.

Dolly: I know. I hear that passage being read, I’m like, god, Nina is so snarky.

Zibby: I love her. I love Nina.

Dolly: Oh, I’m so glad you do. She’s quite different to me with her voice, but her thoughts that she says to the reader are kind of like my darkest thoughts that I have on my grumpiest day when I’ve had three glasses of wine. There’s something very cathartic about just letting those slightly less generous thoughts have room to breathe and to play around with them. I’m so glad, as a mother in particular, that you liked her and you don’t feel she was too judgmental because I really, really wanted to — at first, you see Katherine through Nina’s eyes, which is only from the paltry pieces of information that she gets from Katherine. Katherine is so concerned with showing her she’s made the right choice of having children and settling down and getting married quite young that she actually doesn’t give the full picture to Nina. It was really important to me that you have that slightly distorted view of Katherine through Nina’s eyes initially. Then in the later part of the book, we get more of the backstory of where Katherine’s at in her marriage and in her mental health and with her children and with her mothering so that we can really understand why she has, in Nina’s eyes, fallen short as a friend. I didn’t want to be ungenerous towards Katherine, so I’m glad that you like Nina.

Zibby: No, I loved it. Everyone who is a mother was once not a mother. We were all on the other side of that. All of us had mother friends. I shouldn’t say all. Let me speak for myself. Before I was a mother, I had friends who were already mothers. Just because I’m one now doesn’t mean I’ve forgotten any of that. No, I thought the snarkiness was hilarious. I think that was my favorite part. Maybe that makes me a terrible person or something. I was laughing so much. I loved their dynamic. When she said she’s having another baby, Nina was like, ugh. What did she say? She’s having another one. Now I have to fain like I care, or the surprise or whatever. I don’t know. It was so funny. Let me see if I can find that part.

Dolly: That is a bit me being a bit of a bitch. I think that I’m always — not always because not all couples do this. I do find the kind of grand unraveling of information when you have the privilege of being in a couple that have this information that they feel they can release as a press release to the people in their life — which is a privilege that’s not really allowed for single people. If I issued statements about new information in my life, I think people would think it was rather self-important. Obviously, with having babies, there are lots of reasons why people would want to hold that information back. There’s a way in which Katherine conveys that information to Nina that Nina finds sort of imperious. I think that, as I said, it’s just comparing it to the single experience, which Katherine just seems to have forgotten. It’s like, wow, you really do get, just by the default structure of the ancient rituals of having kids and getting married and how that’s celebrated, it means that by default in their friendship, a lot of their friendship and a lot of conversation and a lot of their lives and a lot of their planning is all related to Katherine’s personal life choices. That kind of dictates the whole tone of the friendship. That does start to grate on her.

Zibby: Of course. There’s this other passage that I —

Dolly: — Just as a warning for the sound .

Zibby: This is so funny. Right before we started filming, Dolly says, “I hope you don’t mind, but in the middle, a nice man’s going to come in with some fish and chips.” I was like, “How British is that?” Amazing. This is exactly what’s happening now. She’s getting fish and chips delivered, as if this is what happens all the time in London. It’s not just in the movies.

Dolly: Thanks so much, Ryan. Friday on set is fish and chip day. The whole crew are really always excited about our Friday. I’ve got a little plastic box of fish and chips next to me.

Zibby: Wait, tell us about the project that you’re on set for.

Dolly: I’m doing — I’m making — sorry. As you can tell, I’m struggling with sentences today because I was on set very early. I am doing an adaptation of my first book, my memoir, Everything I Know About Love. That’s shooting at the moment. We’re doing all the scenes in a studio at the moment. There’s a set build. We’re here all day.

Zibby: Oh, my gosh, that’s so cool.

Dolly: It’s really cool.

Zibby: Is that just such a trip to be doing your own life story? Is that crazy?

Dolly: Yes. It’s semi-fictionalized, which helps it be a bit less crazy. The house is very similar to the girls’ house share that I lived in. They’ve really, really done a great job of these very, very specific authentic details that were very important to me. One of the first conversations I had with my director was, we said, “We don’t think there should ever be a shot of a radiator that doesn’t have knickers hanging on them.” You know how when you live with girls, every radiator just has drying knickers? You all end up wearing each other’s pants for years because you’re all wearing the same indistinguishable crap pants. I was walking around the bathroom yesterday. It had that classic girl house share thing of, there were so many bottles around the bath, most of which have been emptied but no one can be bothered to throw away, just this detritus of womanhood around the bath that makes it impossible to have a proper shower. It’s really, really fun. I’m so keen when I’m talking about the process of filming this show to be really honest about the fact it is stressful. It is tiring, but it is probably the most fun experience I’ve ever, ever had. The only reason I’m so smug about that is because I want writers to know that it’s worth it. When you’re a screenwriter, you have basically ten years of heartbreak and nothing being made and having to write endless documents for no money. So much work that you do in those development stages of working with TV production companies and film production companies, it’s just unpaid work. It’s fruitless. It goes nowhere. Now I’m really keen to say, when you do get there, it’s creativity on a level I didn’t even think was possible. It’s like typing up the copy for what one of my characters’ CV might have looked like for one passing shot. It’s that kind of level of detail that I love.

Zibby: That’s so cool. Who is playing you?

Dolly: Emma Appleton is playing me. Then Bel Powley is playing the character based on my best friend. Then the two other housemates, the other two best female friends, they all met at university, one of them is being played by Marli Siu, who’s done a few things before. Then the other is being played by Aliyah Odoffin. Literally, when we hired Aliyah, she was still in drama school. She hadn’t even done a showcase yet. We feel lucky for the whole cast, but there are a few actors where we feel like it’s so exciting that we have the privilege of it being their first green job.

Zibby: So cool. Oh, my gosh, how fun. This is so great, too, because last time, we spoke about your other book, and now already, it’s a whole production. By the time your next book comes out, what will have happened to Ghosts? I don’t know. Was this optioned already too?

Dolly: Yes, it’s optioned as a film. It’s been optioned as a film. A film script has been bought. A studio hasn’t bought it yet, but I am writing the film script. It’s the thing I’m doing straight after this, which will be great, really, really fun.

Zibby: I can’t wait to watch it. I just wanted to read one more funny passage and then talk about one other passage. You wrote, “Max was ten minutes late. I hated lateness. Being late is a selfish habit adopted by boring people in search of a personality quirk who can’t be bothered to take up an instrument.” That might be one of my favorite lines of the whole book. That’s so hilarious. You’re so funny.

Dolly: Thanks, Zibby. Do you know what? That was a real stretch in my imagination because I’m sorry to say I am the person who is ten minutes late for everything. It has upset and angered and infuriated, quite rightly, every person who loves me throughout my entire life.

Zibby: I am always on time. Well, now I’m sometimes late. I just have always viewed being late as, why is your time more important? Anyway, it was just hilarious.

Dolly: I can already tell, I can hear from that speech — that sentence you just said, that’s already been said to me so many times. I know if you and I were best mates, we would have so many rows about it, Zibby.

Zibby: My husband is late a lot too. He’s chronically late. I don’t understand. I’m sorry, if he’s listening. Now I give him false times that he has to be ready.

Dolly: Yeah, they do that to me.

Zibby: I kind of see why. I watch it like I’m watching an animal at the zoo. Why is it so hard? Let me see what he does to make him late. We both have the same amount of time to get ready to leave at the same time. I think it’s that it just doesn’t feel pressing until it’s time to go. Then he has all these things he realizes he has to do, whereas I’m always working backwards in time. Oh, I’m going to have to leave in twenty minutes, so I have to do this now. As opposed to, it’s time to go, oh, now I have to do these five things.

Dolly: It’s definitely the working backwards thing. Either you do that or you don’t. I also think, to be generous to your husband and myself, I think it’s optimism. I think people who are extremely optimistic in a bit of a delusional way will just not factor in all the realities of life that you have to leave time for or the variables of life you have to leave time for. If I see, on the train app, that it says to get from my station to the station I need to go to it’s ten minutes, I will leave for ten minutes forgetting that I have to walk to the station, I have to walk to the place at the other side of the station, that there might be delays, that there might be a que at the ticket machine. It’s also daydreaminess. I’m always in a bit of a different world in my head a bit. I just find it hard to be rooted in reality and its demands.

Zibby: Honestly, I think you’ve just solved one of our biggest conflicts in our relationship.

Dolly: Really?

Zibby: He is super creative. He is super optimistic. He always thinks everything’s going to turn out just fine. It usually does for him. I’ve always been like, “That’s not how it works.” He’s like, “That’s how it works for me.” I’m like, “I don’t know.”

Dolly: Where do you go from here? That’s the thing, isn’t it? You analyze it. You work it out. I’ve been trying to change it my whole life. I can’t really change it. I’m sure I could. I keep trying. It doesn’t work.

Zibby: I really think it has to be a false deadline situation.

Dolly: That’s what my friends do.

Zibby: I think it’s the only way if someone’s process is not going to change and they’re committed to overlooking the mundane or just don’t see it. I feel like it’s people who are flying above the clouds. They’re not seeing all the stuff, whereas I’m right on the ground looking at every single building. I leave an hour early for everything. I’m too early. I’m at the airport — I usually make earlier flights. I’m like, I don’t know. I don’t know what might happen. I could get in a car crash. It might be today. I’m always at the worst case in my head.

Dolly: This is the problem. My best friend is like you. If you’re someone who’s above in the clouds, on that plane of existence, the likelihood is the people who are closest to you are the people on the ground. Then it means that you don’t really have to go down there. It means that I always know if I’m going on holiday with Farly, I would sort everything, but she’ll just sort it months before I would. I don’t even really have to open the Airbnb app. Even though I’m happy to, I know I won’t have to. It kind of perpetuates this dynamic where she always feels like she has to be the one organizing everything and keeping everything on track. I always feel like, I don’t know what I provide. The jokes. The drinks, the laughs. I don’t know. Something completely fucking useless. I just think it’s interesting that those two opposite temperaments often really are drawn to each other, which means that the other one never really has to change.

Zibby: Interesting. I like it. It helps us the other way. When you say you don’t know what she gets out of it, I’m sure she gets so much out of being your best friend. I feel like I want to be your best friend after this book and conversation and everything. I’m sure anybody would. I know for me, my husband, I need that. I need to see. I need to get pulled up myself or else I’m in the — who wants to live in the traffic when you can live above the clouds? Maybe just a reminder of that or something. One other thing I wanted to talk about in Ghosts, which I thought was also one of these life revelations that you just casually throw in there, was when you choose your partner anew based on every life stage. This is what she realizes, Nina, and her ex-boyfriend kind of realize when he gets married. He’s getting married and says he doesn’t want to — she was like, you didn’t want to get married when we were together. He’s like, I think you choose who you want to be and what you want to do based on that relationship, not based on you. Then you fill in the person who will make that happen. I didn’t say that very well.

Dolly: Yes, it’s exactly that.

Zibby: I just loved that. I hadn’t thought about life in that way too. Basically, in every relationship, it goes a different way based on that specific combination as opposed to, this is what I want. I thought that was really cool.

Dolly: Totally. I have to believe that because of the sheer number of men who wouldn’t commit to me and then the next relationship they’re in, they’re married. That happened to me so much in my twenties. Then equally, I think about the people I haven’t been able to commit to in a very — I remember being with someone for quite a long time and saying to him, when I was really young — maybe I was just too young to be even pontificating on these things. I said, “I definitely don’t want kids. Definitely don’t want kids.” Then the person I was with straight afterwards, I just immediately knew that I would want to have kids with them. What I realized was it wasn’t that I was a person who didn’t want to have children. It’s that I had chosen a partner who, deep down, I knew I wouldn’t be able to parent with. Something in me was like, oh, that’s not for me. It’s because I couldn’t imagine raising children with this other person, as wonderful as he was. I think that’s exciting, in a way, to know that humans are malleable and adaptable and that we love in that way. We only know what it is we’re capable of, really, when we meet the person who makes us feel like they can make us capable of it. That’s also really heartbreaking. My heart breaks for Nina a bit with that, with her ex. Her and her ex, Joe, are very good friends. He was just a completely useless boyfriend to her. They were together seven years. He never remembered a birthday. He was adoring, but he was like having a bit of a teenage son boyfriend. I think we’ve all had one of those. Then the next woman he was with straight after Nina, he’s Mr. Boyfriend. Couldn’t be more attentive, loves being bossed around by her, is terrified of upsetting her, is her lap dog, basically. Couldn’t be more “well-behaved” as a romantic partner. I think he says this to Nina on the morning of his wedding. Nina’s one of his ushers. He says, “It’s not that we were different people. We were just growing up.” The point where Nina and Joe — when they met each other and when they were together throughout their twenties, they were kids. They were working out with each other what kind of adults they want to be. They weren’t being adults together.

Zibby: I just love that. It reminds me of When Harry Met Sally. You know when she’s crying? I assume you’ve seen this movie, right?

Dolly: You mean my favorite movie of all? No, I’d be lying off my heart.

Zibby: I was going to say, if you haven’t seen this movie, something is wrong with the universe. When she’s crying and she’s like, you didn’t want to marry me.

Dolly: Oh, I hate that line. All this time, I thought Joe didn’t want to get married. Oh, my god, he’s called Joe, the ex, as well.

Zibby: Right? I was going to say that. Then I was like, did I just make up that his name was Joe? Maybe I won’t say the word Joe.

Dolly: It’s so funny. I’ve got to be so careful of that. I’ve got this incredibly spongey brain. This has happened a few times with the scripts in the show. I realize I’ve written a scene that’s just phenomenally good. Then I realize the reason it’s phenomenally good is it’s completely stolen from one of my favorite films. I’ve done it without even realizing.

Zibby: Dolly, you have stolen that scene. I hate to tell you. No.

Dolly: I know, it’s really bad. The key is, if it’s really good, the likelihood is you’ve taken it from someone else. Every scene that I do or every line that I’ve written that I’m like, ooh, that’s good, that feels classic — if you get the feeling with your own writing that something feels classic or archetypal or it’s been here before, the likelihood it’s been here before. You’re just recycling stuff without even realizing. My biggest fear is accidentally plagiarizing without even realizing.

Zibby: We won’t say anything. I won’t tell anyone. I know I’m already running over. As a last question, what’s your advice for aspiring authors?

Dolly: Advice for aspiring authors, don’t be afraid to live, is my first piece of advice, which sounds very like something you’d see cross-stitched on a cushion. What I mean by that completely useless truism is you don’t have to be in a rush to get projects done because writing is one of the very few industries on earth that favors aging. That, for me as a woman, feels incredibly liberating. I know for a fact that when I’m in my sixties, there’s no dispute, my writing is going to be better. It’s not like being a model or being an athlete or being in a really zeitgeisty job like publishing or marketing or PR or whatever. The more life experiences a writer has, the better they are going to be as a writer. The more love they feel, the more loss they feel, the more people they meet, the more people they meet from different backgrounds to theirs, the more experiences they expose themselves to which are uncomfortable or different to theirs, the more they learn, the more they read, the more they travel, all this stuff is only going to make your writing better and better and better. Don’t be so panicked about having to — this is the age I need to get my novel done. This is when I need to get an agent. This is when I need to have my piece published in The New Yorker. You’ve got time. Time is on your side.

If it means that you have to spend five years, ten years, twenty years, look at — she’s an English writer, sorry. Nina Stibbe is one. There are so many writers — A.A. Gill’s another writer — who are beloved English writers, super successful. They had these whole lives before they started writing. They were in their thirties. In Nina’s case, I think she was in her fifties. Don’t be afraid. Basically, to write full time from a young age, the fact is you’ve got to have support. You’ve got to have rich parents. Most people don’t have that. That’s obviously totally fine. What you’re going to have to do instead is either loads of different temp jobs or a job that’s writing-adjacent or an entirely different career. Be a lawyer. Be a doctor. Be a teacher. That’s totally fine. You don’t have to panic about that taking away your chance. As the years go on, your chances of being a published writer do not dwindle, as far as I’m concerned. There might be statistics that prove me wrong. I personally think that writing, it is only ever enriched by the experiences of the writer. Don’t panic. Just do your writing in the evening and at the weekend and any snatches of time that you can. That doesn’t mean that you’re a failure. That should be inspiring to you. That should be exciting. Don’t ever feel ashamed about that.

Zibby: I love that. That’s brilliant and a fantastic piece of advice. I feel like all the people I interview — I don’t think I’ve interviewed anyone in their twenties. It just doesn’t happen then. You have to go out and live.

Dolly: Just don’t panic. The minute that you’re anxious, that is when you can’t create. Relax into it.

Zibby: I love it. Dolly, thank you so much. I’m sorry to run over. I could talk to you all day.

Dolly: Not at all. Zibby, I always love talking to you. I’m sorry I’ve been rambling on in my half-asleep state with one eye completely focused on this pile of breaded haddock.

Zibby: Go eat your fish and chips. You eat your fish and chips. Go back to your real work. Have a great day. Thank you so much.

Dolly: It was lovely to talk to you. Thank you so much for having me.

Zibby: You too. Buh-bye.

Dolly: Bye.

Dolly Alderton, GHOSTS

GHOSTS by Dolly Alderton

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