Totally Booked: LIVE! In this special episode of the podcast (in-person at the Whitby Hotel with a live audience!), Zibby interviews Dina Alvarez and Dina Aronson (as well as 10 other contributors!) about MIDLIFE PRIVATE PARTS, a soulful and revealing collection of essays on what it really feels like to move through the world as a midlife woman and beyond. Zibby, a contributor herself, moderates the conversation on the complexities, challenges, and liberation that come with aging. Touching on shifting identities, raging hormones, sexual awakenings, skin-tightening treatments, menopause, medical gaslighting, empty-nesting, and societal invisibility, each contributor shares a candid, often humorous, and deeply moving reflection on midlife.

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome Dina Alvarez.

Also, Dina Aronson is passionate about shining a light on midlife women and reframing the cultural conversation around aging. She began her career as an attorney later founding a legal search firm, but pivoted as she approached midlife and couldn't find relevant content that reflected her experience.

She began freelancing for startups aimed at the 40 plus woman. And founded the Patina blog. Now a Substack newsletter called Patina with Dina Aronson, where she explores topics in and around aging through her midlife lens. Speaking of midlife lenses, I am wearing my Cadis readers, which I am obsessed with, and they have gifted you all, Cadis as well.

She has two grown stepsons and currently resides between New York City and Miami with her husband who I just met and is here as well. So welcome Dinas. Thank you for coming. 

Dina: Thank you, you did it. 

Zibby: I did. It didn't fall over. Very exciting. Um, okay. Before I bring everybody else on, just give a, an overview of the book and how it came to be.

Dina: Okay. Um, well the, the book is, uh, a collection of incredible stories. Some of, some of which from these women. And, um, it came to be because Dina and I came, we actually came together later in life. We, we met in our fifties, in our early fifties, and we were, we just had an instant connection and Dina had an idea for an anthology that was a little bit different than this one.

And I was sort of steeped in midlife, as you know, you just read about the blog. And I started that because there wasn't enough content that reflected what was happening in our lives. And so we came to this idea of why not tell these stories? You know, we, the narrative is so outdated and just wrong, so let's rewrite it.

And so, um, we started to, you know, we were creating community and it was pandemic time, so a lot of us were online and meeting each other, and we, we connected with the most incredible women and we just started reaching out and saying, Hey, this, we think this is really important and we'd love for you to come along and tell your stories and, you know, let's share so that we can start to shift this conversation. And I think, uh, you know, more personally, I, it's just such a, it can be such a lonely time. There's so much changing. There's, you know, relational shifts and physical shifts and emotional shifts, and it can leave us feelings.

So unhinged, and I know I have felt that way. And so we, we also want women to know like they're not alone on this journey. And that even though it doesn't feel anything approaching normal, it's normal. So that, that's sort of the idea. And I'll let Dina jump in. 

Dina A.: Uh, well, the anthology was definitely born of a midlife friendship.

Two women who came together with similar values and ideas and love to write. And I also felt that, you know, we, we have a part in the book, I think it's the beginning where it says, type in the word midlife in any Google search engine and the word crisis will come up. Um, but the world we were living in at the moment, women were not having a crisis at all.

In fact, they were going out and starting podcasts and, you know, placing in the top 1%. They were becoming jewelry designers or creating other new endeavors. We have a writer who started a, um, a woman's health product. We had. All these women around us, none of them were having a crisis and they had great stories to tell.

Is life perfect? Absolutely not. But there is always a silver lining in almost anything if you look for it. And I think that's what we wanted to help other women see that midlife is not a time to be afraid of, you know, we're sold this. Idea that, you know, aging and getting older is, you know, something to fear when in fact I had the very opposite experience.

I felt like a sense of freedom and curiosity and I wanting to do a new project. So it's also a way to show younger women if they pick up the book and read it, that there are a lot of great opportunities out there and that you can learn from the women who are already there. So, uh, that was really the reason we wanted to work together, to kind of pool our resources and, um, give other women the opportunity to be, uh, feel seen, heard and understood, which I think many of us aren't.

Um, and it's just been a wonderful project and I'm thrilled to have all these wonderful women contribute, who you'll hear from. In about 30 seconds. 

Zibby: Amazing. Uh, well, having read the whole collection, I not only felt understood, but totally inspired and also just really energized to be part of a group of people who are creative and maybe have a little extra time to do the things they always wanted to do.

Not in the weeds of the parenting years or whatever, but this opportunity to, to do what's next, which can feel depressing and overwhelming, but exciting. Uh, so on that note. We will start having our contributors one at a time. Come sit here. So come on over. And if you don't mind, just share your name and what your story is about.

Lora Friedman Williams: Sure. Thank you. Uh, my name is Laura Friedman Williams and my story is about sex. I. In midlife. Um, it was actually born out of crisis, so I would say midlife crisis was forced on me. I, I don't think I would've entered it on my own, but who knows, um, when my husband had an affair and my very long marriage ended, um, and I was single for the first time in my late forties.

It had been since I was like 19 that I had been single and, um. I went on like a sexual journey and really, um, rediscovered intimacy and sexuality and myself, and I gained so much power through it. I learned so much about myself, um, but also. Um, really it gave me a voice. It just gave me a voice. Again, it, it helped me find my way.

I think a lot of people felt that I was just sleeping around. Um, and there was some of that, and that was fun. Um, I mean, there's nothing like having fun again after your heart's been broken. So I, I have, I have no shame about that actually. I feel like people should just all be having more sex. And, um, and then I,.. 

Zibby: And that's a wrap.

That's all we need. We've gotten what we needed out of today. No, I'm kidding. 

Lora Friedman Williams: Uh, and then I wrote a book about it and so, um, I think the sex gave me a voice and then the voice gave me a book. 

Zibby: Amazing. Thank you so much. Try to tap that. I was just. 

Jessica Fine: I, I don't wanna be the one following the sexual journey.

Okay. I'm Jessica Fine. Um, and my story is about shifting perspectives and it's about the realization I came to sometime after 50 that what I had envisioned post 50 being like was absolutely the inverse. I had always thought like your twenties, your thirties, you're figuring out who you are, what you believe in.

You're like testing, experimenting, and then by the time you creep up in age, you got it. Like that's when you know everything you believe in and you're just done. And you can stand firm in who you are, what you believe, all that kind of stuff. And what I realized is once you get to a certain point, and for me it was post 50.

It's all wide open. You, there are no more shoulds, there's no more, you know, this is who I am because this is who my parents were, or this is who I am because this is what I was raised to be. It's now we can be who we want to be. We could explore and we can experiment. And it's just, for me, been much more of an open, invigorating, inspiring, exciting time than I thought it would be.

The essay I give specific examples, um, but that's the general thing. 

Zibby: And I might be mixing this up, but weren't you saying that you now wear string bikinis to the beach? 

Jessica Fine: Okay. String bikinis is a little bit of an exaggeration, but maybe since I followed the sexual journey, we can just leave it at, yes, I wear string bikinis.

But I do appreciate your, uh, shout out to the glasses because that is part of my essay is that I am known to wear. More than one pair of glasses at the same time. 

Zibby: Yeah. I was interested when you said you wear distance glasses and reading glasses. 'cause now in the car I'm like trying to see the things that are close, but then the road, and it's a whole thing.. 

Jessica Fine: I'm telling you, just put one pair on top of the other and you'll be all set.

Zibby: Oh boy. Yeah, it's a, it's a good look. Anyway. 

Jessica Fine: Thank you. 

Zibby: So thank you. That was the first essay in the collection, by the way, so it kicks it off with a, a great new point of view.

Hi. 

Skylar Liberty Rose: Hi. Hello. I am Skylar Liberty Rose, and my essay is about all day, I wonder briefly, and it's about the mental load that we carry as women and how in midlife as we start to visibly age, we often feel this sense of not being seen and becoming invisible to society.

And it's really about the conflict that exists in that space. So for me personally, I feel that at 50 I am becoming more confident in so many ways, and this is at the exact same time that society is telling me that my value is diminishing and my worth is decreasing. And so it's really about. What it takes on a daily basis to navigate that.

Because as women in midlife, we have this kind of unique vantage point of the wisdom that we've acquired over the years. But then again, this sort of uncertainty that, you know, what does the future hold and yeah, it's. It's a lot, and when I whittled it down to what I think about on a daily basis, I was like, no wonder we are walking around exhausted day in, day out.

It is so much to carry. So I wanted to give some insight into that because I think that this often feels like a very isolating time for women, and I just want them to know that they're not alone. You know, there's so many of us that are trying to figure all of this out, and I am also somebody who wears two pairs of glasses at the same time.

So, yeah, I can, I already, I can identify with a lot of the shares that I've heard, so I hope that other women will find that, that sense of warmth, community understanding, and solidarity as well. 

Zibby: I love that. And it's not even just that everyone is sharing like what you shared in your essay, but the writing of the essays is also such high quality.

I mean, these are really beautiful essays, not just, um, you know, quickly dashed off sort of bloggy type posts. These are beautiful essays, which were a joy to, to read like yours. So thank you. 

Skylar Liberty Rose: Thank you. Thank you. 

Zibby: Next up. 

Julie Flakstad: Hello. 

Zibby: Hi,.. 

Julie Flakstad: My name is Julie Flakstad, I'm excited to be here with you all. My essay is about shifting identities.

It's really about the duality of aging, and I believe passionately that there is a duality. There is this. Mourning and loss that is coupled with curiosity, growth, inspiration. But there's two sides of the coin. And in the work that I do, I really, I don't think you can have one without the other. So the essay explores, you know exactly that you know of.

Looking back at one's life and realizing all the moments, um, with children, with motherhood, with marriage, with friendship, um, and kind of taking a look back and then also taking a look forward about what's ahead and realizing that essay actually takes place with me, um, watching my elderly neighbors move into a retirement home and in watching their move, um, happen over the course of several weeks. It gave me an opportunity to reflect and pause about where I was at this pivotal moment in my life. And, um, it was a teary, um, few weeks, but it really also set me up for everything that was ahead and making sure that I lived in the moment for this second act that we're all approaching. 

Zibby: I love that essay so much and how you were like, wait, how am I the oldest person on my street?

You're like, when did that happen? Oh, it was so nice. 

Julie Flakstad: Exactly. And little kind of footnote on that. So that a young couple moved into that house and they have a 3-year-old and a 1-year-old, which was exactly the age I was when I moved into my house. So it's kind of this, it's really wonderful how the circle of life continues.

Uh, so anyway, congratulations, uh, to everybody. 

Zibby: Thank you. Hi. 

Katie Fogarty: Hi everyone. My name is Katie Fogarty. Um. My essay opens with me looking at my husband of 20 plus years and shouting, I want a divorce in the middle of our driveway during the middle of a pandemic, and spoiler, We're still married. We managed to work it out, but my essay is really about like.

How did I get here? How did I get in this towering state of rage? Looking at somebody that I love so deeply and saying like, I'm at a breaking point. And so the essay explores like perimenopause, the pandemic sheltering place. With everyone. I gave birth to this sort of hot house of emotions and then the launch of my podcast a certain age, which is how I'm first connected to Zibby.

Um, and the podcast set me in rooms exactly like this, talking to women in midlife, hearing their stories and learning. I was very far from alone in this moment of overwhelm and how did I exactly get to this phase of my life? And so the essay, I think invites people to explore that for themselves. 

Zibby: Amazing.

And there's some, there's some sex in yours as well? 

Katie Fogarty: Yes, of course. That's why we're still married.

Zibby: Some specific tips. 

Katie Fogarty: Yes. 

Zibby: But we'll leave that to the end. 

Katie Fogarty: Exactly. So it's a wonderful collection. I can't wait for it to be out and about in the world. And I wanna thank the Dinas for organizing it and bringing us all together, and for Zibby, for always amplifying the stories of people and now amplifying the stories of midlife women because we will not be aging quietly.

Thank you. 

Zibby: Thank you. 

Laura: Hi. Hi, Dinas. 

Hi Zibby. 

Zibby: Hi. 

Laura: Hi everybody. My name's Laura Bel Gray and well, my essay, I too have been on a journey. It's not a sexy, it is a laser journey as in dermatological, lasers, microneedling, everything having to do with the jawline and the neck. Um, and we'll say that when I was on Katie's podcast, she ends with I fill in the blank. Uh, as I age, I feel, and I know I was like something empowering, something empowering, bad about my neck. Um, so my essay is called Mysterious Charge and it's, it opens with my husband going over our Amex bill and me praying that he doesn't notice the big fat charge from the dermatologist.

Um, and it really deals with the ideas of aging, what it means to age gracefully in our culture and the duality of that. Thank you for that word. Um, because we are. Supposed to keep it up, maintain look great, um, age gracefully, but not look like we've had anything done. We're just basically supposed to have Polina Porco v's bone structure.

And that's what's expected of us as women as we age. So it deals with just the, um, the hope and the shame and the hiding of stuff that I've had done and hoping that it works. And, um and hoping it's not discovered and lying a little bit about it to friends. 

Zibby: Is there one thing you've had done that you would recommend that we all do?

Laura: Oh, yes. Okay. At the first time, don't wait till you're, and it's not my fault that I waited, they didn't have this technology yet, but I would say don't wait till you see Crepeness at the first sign of it, um, or even before, get soft wave done. 

Zibby: Mm. 

Laura: I think not everyone can do, not everyone's a candidate. I think it depends on the, like how much melanin you have, but um, like that kind of laser, it tightens and I think that it's gonna do what I need it to do and not have to go under the knife.

No one has to go under the knife, but to achieve what I want, um I like, I think there are advances so that we don't have to, you know, have facelifts if we want a certain look. 

Zibby: Today's episode has been sponsored by software. 

Laura: Seriously. I wanna invest in it, um, created by Israelis. Good stuff. 

Zibby: Great. Yeah.

Amazing. Maybe we'll get a discount. 

Laura: Yeah, exactly. Thank you, Laura. 

Marian Adams: Hi, uh, I'm Marian Adams. I am so honored to be part of this beautiful collaboration, full heart. Um, I wrote an essay about, um, my three year medical gaslighting, menopause, um, experience. I recently turned 60 and it's the best, but in 2015 when I was 52 I started to not feel like myself. Uh, my hair started to fall out. I had torturous insomnia. I had crippling fatigue. I couldn't. Um, concentrate or focus. I was falling apart. And so for over three years, I saw 10 doctors, many of whom said, um, my debilitating symptoms, pardon me, were in my head, uh, likely from a chemical imbalance in my brain.

Uh, for which there's no test for that, by the way. It's only diagnosed by conversation. There's no scan, there's no blood test. So I believed it because I was definitely not myself. So, um, I saw two internists, two OBGYNs, four psychiatrists, one Ayurvedic doctor, and one neurologist. And, um, after more about 22 antidepressants, two week hospitalization, 36 rounds of transcranial magnetic stimulation.

I was basically a catatonic, recluse. I felt like I was just a vessel that just needed calories, but my personality, my joy, my spirit was was, was just gone. And in the beginning of this year, three years, I couldn't stop crying and at the end of it, I couldn't cry. I just couldn't even cry. I was just sort of void.

And, um, you know, some people said, well, maybe it's not depression. Maybe you're sad because you don't have small children to care for anymore. Maybe you should get a job. Another doctor said, um, you can't be that bad. You're wearing your pearls and you know, your hair looks nice. Sort of, uh, just very condescending, dismissive things.

But, um, and this all was in New York City and Long Island. Uh, but not too far from here. Doctor number 11. My angel saved my life. Dr. Carolina Sierra. Um, she's an internist, endocrinologist. I thought she was a nutritionist. And I went to her to maybe get some food ideas to make me feel better, and she turned, listened to my history.

She looked at me, she heard me, and she said to the nurse, I want the following tests. Thyroid, estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, vitamin B, Vitamin D and Epstein Bar. Two days later she turned over the the results and she said, Marian, the reason none of the treatments or uh, medications you took, helped you is because they target a chemical imbalance in the brain, and that is not what caused your symptoms.

You haven't slept in three years 'cause you have no progesterone. You can't stop crying or feel like yourself or do anything, have any energy 'cause you have no estrogen or testosterone, which women need to. Um, your vitamin D is completely depleted. Your vitamin B is completely depleted, and you did have the Epstein bar virus at one point.

Those are seven different things, one of which would put you on the couch. Um, so swiftly, very swiftly. Um, probably within about two weeks, um, after I started a bioidentical, uh, hormone cream, rubbed it on my little wrist. Thyroid medication, prescription strength, vitamin D. Once a week, 50,000 units. That's, that's the key for that.

And, uh, daily vitamin B and I started to come back to life. Uh, it was a miracle. I really felt like I rose from the dead. So I was determined to, to write an essay, um, to, for one reason so that women can avoid unnecessary, preventable suffering and learn the lessons that I learned. Um, and I guess what I would leave them with would be one, if you don't feel right, you're not right.

Um, depression is a symptom, not a diagnosis. And then finally, um, if treatment for a condition is, uh, not working, it might be time to question the diagnosis. So that was what I wanted to share. And if it helped one person and 99 said, you're crazy or you're dumb, I would say that's okay. As long as one person, you know benefited from it. So I'm just so grateful. 

Zibby: Yeah, great job. You, it was so good. Especially you were like, I just wish I could get that time back with my family. Those, those months and years that were just lost to misdiagnosis. 

Marian Adams: Yeah. Yeah. That was a tough one. But in the end, I now feel like one of the lucky ones.

'cause I think God goodness knows how many women struggle, you know, how many women struggle. So. Thank you. Lovely to see you. 

Zibby: And of course, both of you also wrote essays. Can you share what those are? 

Dina A.: Uh, so my essay is titled The Not So Invisible Woman because I've had a very interesting later in life experience.

I was a severe introvert when I was younger and very shy. And so I kind of, there's a line where I say I've, I've worn an invisibility cloak my whole life, but somehow I got to 50 and it was like this. Switch went off and I suddenly felt very different. And I felt very seen and I felt that the people that needed to see me, uh, were the right people and I was in the right place.

And, you know, this book was born of that experience also feeling like I had finally come into myself. And, um, the, the chapter title is, can You See Me Now? But I could have easily gone into a chapter called Late Bloomer 'cause I'm not quite sure which one of those would fit. Um, but I do see, I do feel very.

Seen and I feel, um, empowered and I feel confident and it's something I never had when I was younger. So it's, I I feel like I've lived my life in reverse in a way. And I don't think that's a terrible thing. I actually am very appreciative of it. And, uh, so if you asked me what age I would go back to, I would say none.

This is it. This is where I wanna be. I feel comfortable and confident and excited. And I think this was also a catalyst to the book as well, putting, you know, creating a project that could give me a little space to be creative and also share other stories, um, that maybe you don't feel invisible, but you have other things going on that I'm also experiencing.

And they say, read the book, write the book you wanna read. So that was another thing. But yes, so I'm no longer invisible. Um, I feel great at midlife and I hope that other women, you know, if they're feeling that way, I hope that they get there and they, I think part of it is just putting yourself in the right places with the right people and the right communities, and you'll feel seen.

It's my piece. 

Zibby: People are definitely seeing you today. 

Dina: Yes, I'm here 

Dina A.: and my essay, uh, was, uh, born of the loss of my mom. Pardon me? It's called Flying Motherless. Um, 'cause I wrote it on a plane on the anniversary. The second anniversary of was something, second anniversary, I think, of my mom's death. But, um, also was a big catalyst for this book because, um, when my mom died, she left space and I felt very compelled to use that space to create something beautiful and meaningful and something that would honor her. And so, um, in my story, I talk about how I, I, you know, I almost lost my mom when I was much younger. And so I thought it was interesting to examine sort of the idea of losing her then and, and actually losing her when I did.

And I talk about how I, I was really. As rational a person as I am, I was very prone to magical thinking when it came to my mom. Um, she was never gonna die. Um, obviously that's, that's we all die. But, um, I, I don't know what my life would've been like if I had lost her at 21 and I, you know, um, and it was still such a struggle when I did lose her, um, just, uh, three years or just a little under three years ago.

So I think the learning for me, and as I was writing that was like the idea that you can hold joy and sorrow. In the same, you know, hands and, and I. You know, I, I think too, that facing what was my biggest fear, losing her in some very ironic way, helped me to let go of fear, although I was a little afraid coming up here today.

I'm kidding. Um, but y you know, I just, I so, so it, it was, you know. Really such a, such a, such a learning experience. And, um, I really am so grateful that, you know, I was able to, to find a way to use that space to honor her. And you heard these stories. I mean, it's just, I, I just, it's like an embarrassment of riches with these women.

So, um, so that, so that, I just, I, I think the message for, for me and what I want to convey is that, you know, as we move into midlife, we all experience loss. And grief. And I think it's really important to find ways to be present in it, to feel it and, um, you know, to know that it's okay and life will go on because the world keeps spinning and you need to find a way to be in it.

And so I just, I just want people to know that you can find joy and there is joy everywhere When you're present and you're open to you know, you open your eyes, it's all around. 

Zibby: So I love in your essay how you were like, I'm 56, but I still just lost my mom. 

Dina A.: Yeah. 

Zibby: Like it doesn't make it any easier just 'cause we're older.

Dina A.: No. 

Zibby: To lose people, just 'cause it's the natural order of things. 

Dina A.: Right. 

Zibby: Doesn't make it less sad. So I think giving people, people that permission to grieve is so important. Um, I also wrote an essay in this book, which now that I heard all the other essays, I'm like completely embarrassed by my essay, but it was a quick thing.

I dashed off one morning when my older kids were at boarding school. My two little kids were with their dad that day, and I was walking the dog on the street and watching all the other kids get on the bus and just like feeling like I didn't wanna go back up to my apartment because it was just so quiet and I wanted to stay there with all the school kids, and I was just mourning sort of the transition of my all my kids fleeing the nest and wondering what's next. Even though I'm happy, it's still so sad. So that was what my essay was about. So as you can see, this book is Chockfull of amazing stories, and I think. Everyone who contributed could have written another 50 stories, and I'm sure everybody else could.

I think you guys need to have some sort of summit where there are panels all divided by the sections in your book where people talk about these issues all day because we have so little time and we could talk about this all day and all feel so much better. So thank you for aggregating all the voices.

Thank you. Thank you for coming today. Midlife private parts.