Bestselling author Christine Pride returns to the podcast, this time to discuss her dazzling, unputdownable solo debut novel, ALL THE MEN I’VE LOVED AGAIN, which follows a woman in the impossible situation of being in love with the same two men who won her heart in her early 20s… as she nears 40. Christine delves into the novel’s themes of lost love, second chances, friendship, grief, and identity. She also discusses the joys and challenges of writing solo after co-authoring with Jo Piazza, the real-life roots of her novel’s premise, and her close relationship with her father, who inspired a central character in the book.

Transcript:

Zibby: Hi Christine. Thanks for coming back on my show to talk about All The Men I've Loved, Again, a novel.

Congratulations. 

Christine: Oh, thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here to chat. 

Zibby: Solo novel. I know you, you have been here with Joe Piazza before and now you are on your own. How does it feel? 

Christine: It feels good. It feels so different. It feels like, like different evolutions, I guess, or different steps of becoming a writer.

Uh, but it's, it's, it's different in its own ways. Um, and, you know, we still miss Joe, right? And we're working on another book together, so it's kind of like I have the best of both worlds. Um, but it was fun to, to try to tackle this, uh, solo. It felt like a good next step. 

Zibby: Amazing. Well, this is very fun and I feel like you actually were with friends.

With the book because there was so much friendship here. So I feel like even though you didn't write it with a girlfriend or anything, like I still got that, but I feel like, like putting it down, I feel like I've just spent a lot of time with friends. 

Christine: So, well that's because the group chat did help a lot with the book.

There's a lot of dropping in the group chat as I was writing. Like guy, especially with the timeframe, 'cause you know the book is set in the early aughts and so a lot of it was like, wait a minute, did we have this then? Did we dance to this? Then what? You know, it's. It's like an historical novel in that way.

You have to go back to your youth. 

Zibby: Yeah. But also your funny commentary and everything. You're like, why do we even call it the aughts? Like what the heck? Like why are we what? So that was also amazing. Why don't you talk a little bit about what the book's about? 

Christine: Sure. So it's about a woman named Cora and she dates the same two men in her twenties and then reunites with them and dates the same two men in her forties.

And so, uh, in both of those time periods in her life, right? She obviously has different things going on, but she, you know, is sort of really emotionally torn between these two men. And so how she, um, you know, has to make a decision to follow her heart, both at 20 and 40.

Zibby: I dunno. I was Team Lincoln, I have to say Team Lincoln.

Christine: Interesting. 

Zibby: All, all along. I was like, okay, come on, come on. Um, you have, uh, in Cora walks into a bar in for October, 2021. 'cause all the chapters, or Cora does this, Cora does that, which I loved by the way. Um, you say the first thing Nisha demanded to know was. What's it like having sex with the someone after two decades and then you go, you wanna know.

Yeah, exactly. Um, then you go into everything from, well, I'll let the reader, you know, use their imagination. But that's part of like the girlfriend nature of the book is like you tell. Everybody is open as as they would be to a best friend about everything. So I feel like I got to know Cora. So well talk a little bit about how you crafted these two guys and were you not tame Lincoln?

I don't know. How do you feel about the whole thing? 

Christine: Yeah, so it's interesting because this really is. Based on, you know, it's ripped from the headlines of my own life and that I did date the same two men in my twenties and forties. But I stress it's very much a novel because, you know, I really then created these characters whole cloth, right?

Especially because I didn't want it to skew memoir at all. And so that really made me have to make horror so different from me. So where I'm like super outgoing, core's a little more reserved, et cetera. But that meant that she would obviously not be attracted or vibing, right, with the same two guys that might, I might have.

And so, you know, I really did have to dig deep to figure out, you know, sort of who, Cora, and that's at the heart of the book, right? Like, who would be right for someone like Cora, um, which is what she's also trying to discover for herself. But I also wanted to make them both obviously like viable, alluring, you know, uh, great quality guys.

And each in their own distinctive ways, because it was really important, you know, Cora was truly torn and I hope that people are like you, like some people are Team Lincoln, some people are Team Aaron, but that they're both guys that you wanna root for in a hundred percent. 

Zibby: Yes. I was, I'm, I was really just rooting for her happiness and whatever she wanted would be great. And I'm glad you know, she made whatever choice she made for her, which we will not discuss, but you know, as long as she's happy, like that's what everybody wants. Right. In addition to navigating relationships, her relationship with her father is a, a huge cornerstone of this book. And you have a scene in the middle.

I dunno if I can talk about it or not, but something goes wrong with her dad. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Zibby: And that part for me was so emotional and. So vivid. What happened over those few days and her feelings before, after ongoing about it? Talk a little bit about, about that and how you decided, because she doesn't have a, you know, she's been raised by a single dad and they are super, super close.

Christine: So the single dad thing was important to me because we don't actually see that very often, right. Where, you know, it's just really been Cora and her dad as like a little bubble. Um, and so they are so close and though, you know, I had two parents. I was very close to my father and you know, a lot of, I drew from a lot of that to create this relationship between Cora and her dad.

And it was really important for me to do that because I really do think that who we, you know, end up with as heterosexual partners, you know, a woman attracted to a man is so influenced by our early relationships and is so influenced by the relationships that we have with our fathers for better or worse.

And so I felt like the reader really needed to. See that and feel that and feel their connection and, you know, sort of their dependence on each other. Um, and particularly Cora dependence on, you know, her father and what happens if that's threatened, you know, and a co, you know, coursing through the book is this theme of what happens when we lose those we love. Right. Or the threat of that. Be it a, you know, a, a family member, a friend, a friendship in jeopardy, or a romantic partner. You know, sort of how do we hold on and how do we let go? And Cora's relationship with her father was, I thought, a tender and heartfelt weight to show.

That angle. So I'm glad that it's shining through for people, especially since, you know, I am so close to my own father who actually died six months ago. 

Zibby: Aw,.. 

Christine: I know. So it's been really bittersweet to be, you know, on this journey now. He's been such a huge supporter, obviously, of my career, and I got to show him that the book is dedicated to him before he passed away last summer.

And so that's just meant a lot to me, right. To bring this relationship. Alive on the page that, like I said, is just so much informed by my close relationship with him. So I'm very grateful that it's sort of memorialized forever in the pages of a book. 

Zibby: Aw, I'm really sorry. 

Christine: Thank you. 

Zibby: But that must be hard having to talk about it and like face it over and over and maybe you're not in the mood to talk about it and 

Christine: Yeah, it's hard, you know, it's getting easier, which is good.

I went through a. Phase where it was like almost impossible or I, uh, you know, just sort of burst out into tears. And I think anybody who's experienced loss knows, right, that you go through all these waves. Now, I'm actually really grateful to get to the point where I can talk about it and talk about him in a way that doesn't immediately result in tears, but is also nice, right?

Like, I feel good talking about him now and feel good talking about, you know, his, you know, the context of the book and how, you know, it brings that up. So that's nice to get that back, right, to feel like I have that now. It's not just immediate sorrow still. 

Zibby: Thank you. Well, sometimes I feel like the things that we write are the things that, like we're trying to process and cope with our own fears and like what if, what if this were to happen?

If that were to happen, like it's like our dress rehearsal almost for like the tragedies of life. 

Christine: It's so funny that you say that because it's, I mean, I wrote this book, I mean, it took me like a year and a half, almost two years to write, but this was over, you know, 2023 and 2024, I guess, you know, where I think you get to a certain age and you always think about, one day I might lose my parents, but it was not top of mind.

My dad was perfectly healthy, you know, so I wasn't, you know, sort of writing about loss in that way, but uh, it is, it's like you said, I think we all it. Like there's a subconscious part of our mind that starts playing out the what ifs. And that's really at the heart of this book, right? The ultimate what ifs for everything.

What if this happened? What if I meet him? What if we reconnect with him? You know? And so it did. Art imitating life and life imitating art. It all gets very blurry all the time in novels. 

Zibby: Can I ask how your dad died? You don't have to answer. 

Christine: Yeah. No, it's not. He's just, I mean, he was 83 years old, um, and just, you know, sort of his body, you know, kind of ran out.

There was no specific, you know, immediate calls of death and, you know, it's. It's so many of my friends are at this phase of life, right, of losing parents at this point. And it's always like, is the long goodbye where you're prepared and you have, you know, sort of months to come to terms with this better or is the sudden, you know, which one is sort of more traumatizing, which is a really fun party game to play, which is the more traumatizing way to lose people.

But turns out, spoiler alert, there's no good way to lose anybody that you love. But I'm glad I did have you know, some real final months of a lot of quality time with him, um, that I consider looking back a real gift. 

Zibby: Uhoh, well, sorry to have brought this conversation to 

Christine: No, that's, 

Zibby: You know, a, a sadder place because 

Christine: It's meaningful territory, if not sad.

Zibby: Okay. Yes. Meaningful territory because I. I feel the book is not just a romcom, right? There is a heart to this book. And not that there isn't in romcoms, but you know what I mean? Like there is an under underlying thing of, you know, who are we? Like who is Cora? Like what does she want? I love all the indecision at times.

Mm-hmm. You know, because you know who hasn't been there. I've certainly been like, I don't know, like, what do you guys think? What do you think? And, and especially because Cora has a secret that is really affecting one relationship a lot in particular. And what do we do with. The things in our past that maybe we wish we had handled differently.

Is there still time? Will that ruin things? Now, how did you decide to put in that? What, like, did you always know that Cora would have this? Thing in the past that she would then reveal? You know, like, tell me about that. 

Christine: Yeah, I did. I mean, without revealing too much, I think we're all dealing with something, right?

Um, and so part of the book was exploring how authentic and honest we can be, both with ourselves, right? About what's going on in our lives and with our friends and with our partners. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: And obviously, in a perfect world, your truest partner is somebody that you can lay it all. Bear with, right? That you can be completely honest and vulnerable.

Um, but that in and of itself is a process. And that, uh, you know, as you mentioned, a lot of this book is, is a coming of age story, right? Core is like learning to be a grownup. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: On an adult in the world and. So that's part of the skill building, right? Like how, how to open up to somebody else. And so, you know, it's really a journey for her to figure out how to do that, um, and to see what parts of yourself that different people bring out. That was really a fascinating thing for me, and that was one of the biggest like learning experiences for me in my real life in dating two different people at two different times. It's like all these interesting variables, right, of who we are in those times, and then who they are, right?

And these times, and then how you interact in these times, you know? So, uh, it's just like a fascinating case in human interactions and in love. Um, and so it gave me a chance to explore all that. 

Zibby: So, do you find it hard since you. Have your editor hat that you can put on at any time versus your author hat, do you find it hard to, to, to write without immediately going back and correcting?

Like, how does that work in your head? 

Christine: I am sort of, I mean, I think I've trained myself from writing, you know, two other books with Joe. That we really had a philosophy as like, just get it on the page. You know, like pour it all out and then go back and edit. I mean, I have to fight my perfectionist tendencies that are not just about editing, but right.

Like, I always want a first draft to be perfect, which is completely impossible. And yet each time, you know, I'm like, this chapter needs to be perfect out of the gate. Um, so the expectations are here, but being an editor for all these years, I mean. Been a book editor for 20 years, and so I do feel like it's helped me and have a natural intuitive sense of how to structure a book, pacing right, momentum, character development, things like that.

But the line by line right, is the struggle for everybody all, you know, like putting beautiful words together into beautiful sentences, into beautiful paragraphs. And no matter how much editing you've done or writing you've done, or how many books you've written, it's, it's, you know, a challenge each and every time.

And so I sort of just let the. Just trying to get the words out, uh, without worrying about them editing them too much in that process. 

Zibby: Um, that is good advice. Hard to, hard to take, but easy to say perhaps. But, um, you know, 

Christine: it's so hard. My gosh. Um, so are, and also the emotional aspect of writing a book does not get easier, right?

Like you think each time it's like, well, I've done this before, so, you know, I know I theoretically can do it, but each time it's like a different emotional beast and it brings different, you know, parts out of you and different frustrations and different challenges, and it's. Frustrating to say like, I've done this before.

Like, you know, why isn't it easier this time? Um, and so I just finally had to accept that it's, it's never going to be easy. And once you kind of surrender to that, you're like, the point is not that it's easy, the point is that you do it. Um, and so that's something that I really try to keep in mind. 

Zibby: I think it's like going back to the friendship theme of the book too.

It's like I am a certain way with some friends. And different with other friends. And sometimes as much as I like someone, our relationship isn't as easy. And sometimes it's super easy and you don't know why. Like e and in relationships the same way I feel. I just wrote a book that I am throwing out 'cause I'm like, I never wanted to write it and da da da.

And like, not every book is easy and maybe you have to pay attention to that. Like, maybe it's not the right book, like 

Christine: Right. 

Zibby: I have a teenage book. 

Christine: Or, or learn to let things go. Right. I think sometimes we like, there's this balance in life, you know, in relationships and art and whatever, where you really have to make a distinction between what do what, what is worth holding onto and fighting for as hard as it can be.

And I think we're kind of conditioned to think in that way. Like marriage is hard, relationships are hard, you know, friendships take work, work takes work, et cetera, et cetera. But there's also this flip side of. What should we let go of? Right? Like, what is not serving us? What is not worth it? Yes. What is, even if you love this person, be it a romantic partner or a friend or book, right?

If it's not working, then there's some, you know, hour and meaning and agency in acknowledging that and making room for something else. And I hope this book shows Cora kind of exploring both of those routes. 

Zibby: Yep, absolutely. So what, you're already writing another book with Joe, tell What's on the Horizon because it's not enough book coming out.

Christine: There's all the things all the time. Yeah. Joe and I are writing a third book together, which is due to our publisher in 26 days. Not that I'm counting 

Zibby: Oh my God. 

Christine: Uh, at the end of this month. So, uh, we're deep in it and excited about that. Um, and then I'm noodling on another novel. I have a, a, I think a good idea, this is breaking news here, because it's just alright.

I mean, it's maybe, you know, a couple weeks old at this point. So it is a, uh, I, i, I amber of an idea, but you know how when you get that little. Spidey sense. I'm like, oh, there's something there. And I'm more excited than terrified. And so I think that's a good sign. 

Zibby: That's a very good sign. Oh my gosh. Well, I won't ask you anymore 'cause I don't want you to change it next, 

Christine: Next time I'm here.

Yeah. So we'll, we'll hopefully be talking about that. 

Zibby: Amazing. Oh, that's so exciting. When you're not. Editing for your job? Writing for your job? Like what, what is like your go-to vice or pleasure? Like, do you have time for anything else that you're like super into? 

Christine: I, I do. I really make time actually for other stuff.

Um, TV is a big vice of mine. Uh, I mean, I think just because if you're storyteller.. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Um, and if you love stories, then you love them in all formats and all the ways they can, you know, materialize in the world. And so TV is the thing I do that helps me decompress the most honestly, right? Like after a long day of.

Writing or working or even traveling, whatever I'm doing right. Finding a really good TV show to lose myself in is great. It's maybe the same way that other people then lose themselves into books, but because I'm doing that all day as my day job reading, though, I enjoy it very much and do it all the time, doesn't feel like the same sort of mindless escape.

So I love tv. I love working out, um, you know friendship is such a big part of my life. I spend so much time with my friends and in my myriad group chats, and so that's why that bubbles up so much as a theme really in all of my books. I mean, Joe and I wrote a book together essentially about friendship.

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Um, and I wanted it to be a huge part of all the men I loved again, as well, like it's a love story for sure, but it's also a love story about friendship and that is so important to me, even in the books. Cory says something like, you can't go about a relationship alone. Right? You need your friends to be in a relationship.

And I, I found that on my personal life that that holds true. 

Zibby: Amazing. Well, congratulations, Christine. So exciting. Fabulous cover, by the way, too. Love that. 

Christine: Love it. 

Zibby: Hot pink and red. And it's just so fun. And, uh, it captures the feeling of the bug and yeah. Thank you for taking us on this ride. 

Christine: Oh my gosh.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. Uh, and I'm excited. There's so many great books coming out this summer, so I'm just like, excited to be one of many. Uh, but it's a good summer reading list this year. So excited for all the people who listen to this podcast, who are obviously big readers and have so many good offerings.

Zibby: Yay. All right. Thank you so much. 

Christine: Thanks so much. 

Zibby: All right. Take care. 

Christine: Okay. 

Zibby: Take care. Bye.