Zibby interviews debut novelist Jennifer Trevelyan about A BEAUTIFUL FAMILY, a tense, gripping, exquisitely written coming-of-age mystery set on the Kāpiti Coast of New Zealand in 1985. They discuss sisterhood, the awkward threshold between childhood and adolescence, the lingering weight of grief, and the unsettling presence of a stranger next door. Jennifer also talks about her decade-long journey to publication, the discipline that kept her writing before dawn, and why some mysteries are best left a little bit unsolved...

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome, Jennifer. Thank you so much for coming on to talk about A Beautiful Family, a novel. Congratulations. 

Jennifer: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. 

Zibby: It's my pleasure. Welcome from New Zealand. Why don't you tell listeners what a beautiful family is about? 

Jennifer: A beautiful family is set in 1985 on the Katy Coast of New Zealand, and it's a coming of age mystery novel about a little girl who goes away on a holiday with her family. Her friends are a boy on the beach, and they decide to try and solve a local mystery, but in the meantime, things are happening in her family that are making her very uncomfortable. Her mother's behaving strangely, her sister hooked up with some people that she's not sure of are very trustworthy, and meanwhile, there is a man staying in the house next door who's watching everything that they do, and she's the only one who seems to be aware of him.

Zibby: Yeah, he creeps me out. 

Jennifer: Yeah, he's supposed to creep you out. That's good. 

Zibby: Okay good. Yeah. There were actually many times, and I don't do well with being scared, but there were a few times where I was particularly scared when they scratched away and could see. The name underneath. 

I was like, oh my, I'm not giving anything away, but I was like, I can't. Oh my gosh. So.

Jennifer: That's great. That's great to hear. 

Zibby: Yeah. 

Jennifer: Yeah. 

Zibby: And also I was reading the book and thinking, wait a minute, I was 10 years old in 1986. Like this could have been me with my Walkman and.. 

Jennifer: Yeah,.. 

Zibby: The whole thing. And knowing how it felt when you lost the Walkman and just all of that dependence on music at that time especially because there was no social media. There was no other escape music and books. That was like it. 

Jennifer: Music and books. Yeah. No, I was 10 in 1985 and my Walkman was my world, and I had one tape cassette, and it was actually Billy Joel, I think it was an innocent man, and my sister had her tape cassette and which was wham.

And we were just going around in our own little worlds all the time. Yeah. It was very easy to remember what that was like and see it into my memory. 

Zibby: Yes. Especially the older sister part too, where you're growing up, but then you're seeing someone close to you grow up and not sure that you're supposed to be following those exact same tracks.

Jennifer: Yeah.

Zibby: The whole scene with the mascara and hiding it outta the bed. And then throwing it out the window without that and not knowing, you reflect so beautifully the interior life of. Your main character and how she's I don't wanna wrap my sister out for the many things that her sister does.

And yet she knows it's wrong. So how do you handle it when you don't necessarily have the words? 

Jennifer: Yes. Yeah. 

Zibby: You don't wanna get in trouble yourself. 

Jennifer: No, thank you. Yeah. Yeah. My sisters were quite well behaved, but I still worried about 'em a lot. And I think maybe the youngest that does fall on the youngest a little bit, you're observing everybody and you're. Everyone's secrets are away because you're a little bit invisible. People forget you're there. So I think Alex worries a lot and wants to protect Vanessa, but at the same time they're driving each other crazy. 'cause it's just that time in life where your sibling drives you nuts and she doesn't want to get in trouble herself. As you say, yeah, there's a lot of tension there for Paula, Alex.

Zibby: Alex also. Is at the stage of her life. And you wrote about this in such a unique way where you said she used to be able to smile and everyone would smile back at her because she was so cute. And she's clearly reached the point in her life where she smiles and people don't smile back at her in the same way anymore.

Jennifer: Yeah. We, I distinctly remember that moment where I wasn't that cute little girl anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Just if you're the youngest, then you are. Everyone thinks you're cute and then you trade on that for a little while and then I can remember that going away and you are entering this different phase and yeah, you wanna hold onto it at the same time you're excited to grow up and be a bit more independent.

Zibby: How many sisters do you have and what's your age difference? 

Jennifer: I have two older sisters and the eldest is seven years older than me, and the middle is four years older. And I think there was a time when the middle sister and I were really tight and people would mistake us for twins 'cause I was quiet, and then all of a sudden, we were buddies, and we would get really excited on Christmas morning and all that kind of normal stuff.

And then all of a sudden we weren't buddies anymore and she was going off and I remember it 'cause we stayed in a beach house, very similar to the one I described. She was going off every day on her bike with her friends. And yes, a little bit of grief like oh. What happened to that and I was still the little kid that was excited about Christmas and swimming and all these sort of, really innocent things. So yeah, definitely some experience there. 

Zibby: I feel like I'm having the same grief now with my youngest of four. 

Jennifer: Yeah. 

Zibby: Who is like wanting to go with his friends all the time. And I'm like, I know this is developmentally appropriate, but can't we just settle? 

Jennifer: Yeah. 

Zibby: Anyway. 

Jennifer: Yeah. Yeah. It's ah,.. 

Zibby: The passage of time. You also wrote so beautifully about what grief looks like when you have Alex interact with the mother of the child, Catherine, who's been lost in the field.

And what it looks like when she sees Alex as a girl about the same age, realizes it's not her daughter. You don't even have to say all of this, but in the way you describe the emotions flashing over her face.

You tell the whole story with just the way she looks and the way she like, has to lean back and catch herself.

And then gear herself up to say hello. Tell me about that and being familiar enough with the way grief looks. 

Jennifer: Oh gosh. I don't know. I'm a mom, obviously. It's not that hard to imagine, sadly, something awful like that. I just thought, first of all, I don't think you could leave that place. I don't think you could go to a place. And then leave without 'em would be just horrendous. I actually had the experience this year. We took our son down to Otago, where he's going to university and the worst thing was traveling back up the country without him having gone.. 

Zibby: Yeah. 

Jennifer: Down there with. So I tried to imagine that really. And I didn't want, I wanted to be, to have a really light touch with that grieving mother because I didn't want the novel to become too gothic, with this ghostly woman drifting around.

But I needed to show yeah. Obviously, she's remained in that place. She's not letting it go. Yeah. I just try and get right into the scene and get into both characters and imagine it as I'm writing and hopefully that was that sounded, that was authentic, which is great. 

Zibby: And you also, from the daughter's point of view, show us about. Without giving things away, you know that lust doesn't necessarily go away when you get older, and that relationships are not always static. Talk a little bit about that and even a childhood understanding or not

Jennifer: Do you mean like the parents' relationship?

Yeah. I think that the mother in the novel is a little bored. I think she's a little unfulfilled in the novel. She's writing a novel and I think I was, I think I was imagining what my life might have been like if I hadn't had some sort of creative release.

Because my writing is so important to me, and I just imagine she's had these girls and now they're growing up and she's watching them go away as they do. And I think actually, her marriage is okay. I don't think it's a terrible marriage. And I think he's a lovely man in many ways, but I think she's a little unfulfilled and she's struggling away with this book, which you probably know and I know.

It's gonna be awful. And this other person without giving away too much is a bit glamorous and a bit more sophisticated, and comes from a slightly different world. New Zealand was in 1985, quite well, A very quiet little place, a little bit back. Good in some ways. And he's come from a different place. It's quite sophisticated and glamorous and I think honestly she's just reaching around for something, what's the next thing in my life gonna be? That was how I saw her, rather than it being a terrible marriage at the start of the novel. Yeah. 

Zibby: So what do you want readers to take away from this? What do you want readers to take away from Alex's summer and this whole mystery and all of it? Like the whole, what's the goal? 

Jennifer: Interesting. Yeah. I think, I think whenever I write a story, I want the characters to. Become real to you and become people that you care about and that you take away with you and think about later. And I think that's what happens when I read a book that I love and that character stays with me. Hopefully forever. That's what you're aiming for. I want the book to stay in your mind when you put it down. I prefer it. Not to tie things up too neatly. You might have noticed just to leave. 

Zibby: Yes. Thank you. 

Jennifer: Just not in a frustrating way, but just to leave a few things to the imagination so that you can mull it over and think maybe they did this, maybe they did that. I imagine that the summer becomes a kind of capsule in Alex's memory, and I dunno about you, but when I look back on my memories sometimes I can't tell what was true. And what wasn't, and you have to ask people in your family, did that happen or? 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Jennifer: Yeah, and I kind of wanted to leave the reader with that feeling of wow, what just happened? And then I loved the idea of people going to their book group and arguing about that, into the evening, or maybe they did this. No, I think this happened. So I was trying to create that. I think the reader completes the story and I think that the family will carry on and maybe sweep the summer under the rug a little bit. But it will, Alex will never forget it and she will think. Did that happen the way I think it happened?

Zibby: Interesting. Yeah. My dad, my brother and I all had this experience in a car where I could swear. I was driving, my brother could swear he was driving and my dad doesn't remember, and I'm like, now, we'll never know. And it's so..

Jennifer: Y-yeah. 

Zibby: Frustrating because I'm.

Jennifer: I love that stuff. 

Zibby: You're all sure of our memories of it, so. 

Jennifer: Yes, we are. Yeah. And sometimes there's maybe just a photograph and that is your entire memory of that holiday as this one photograph and you can't place anything else. I find all of that sort of stuff fascinating. Yeah. 

Zibby: Yeah. So tell me how you became an author. 

Jennifer: Oh gosh. I always wanted to write, but I didn't study. I didn't study, I didn't do any undergraduate creative writing papers. I did an English literature degree and then I worked in various jobs. I got married and had children and we traveled, and the writing was always just something I really wanted to do, but I didn't really know what I wanted to say. I didn't think I had anything to say.

And then when I was about. 39, I realized if I didn't knuckle down and do something, this was not gonna happen. And I said to my husband, I'm gonna go out every morning before work and write, and I'm gonna leave you with kids. 

Zibby: How did that go over? 

Jennifer: He was wonderful actually. Yeah. He agreed to do that, and off I went and I was very ruthless about it. So every day I was at the cafe at seven and then work was eight 30, so I had an hour and a half. And I did that for about 10 years. A few books that went into a draw because I knew they weren't good enough, but I was just teaching myself how to do it. And I actually, in that period, wrote a beautiful family and put it in the draw.

And then I had the opportunity to take a year away from work and I did an MA in creative writing. And at the end of that I thought back over all of the work I'd done, and I felt that a beautiful family was the best thing I had done. So I pulled it out of the drawer and I sent it to. And one of them was Felicity Blunt and she picked it up.

Zibby: Do you wish you had sent it originally? 

Jennifer: I don't know, I've been thinking about that. I mean, yes, I suppose so. It was a bit of a shame that it sat there for two years, but at the same time, the MA that I did do in that period did prepare me quite well for the editing process. I may not have felt ready for that. It's quite intimidating when you are dealing with someone as high flying and she's, and you're working on edits and as it was, I had this. Syndrome badly, but it would've been, I think, a little worse if I hadn't done the ma. So you have to say maybe the timing was actually the way it needed to be. 

Zibby: It all worked out the way it should have. 

Jennifer: Yeah. 

Zibby: There you go. 

Jennifer: But it all worked out. No more books and drawers. 

Zibby: So are you gonna take another book out of the drawer now or are you gonna start something new or what's the plan? 

Jennifer: Yeah, I did take them out and read them and they were yeah, no, I'm, I am working on a book and I'm hoping it will be book two. Yeah, it's, every book is different, as I'm sure and it's been a challenge, but I am trying to challenge myself. I'm not trying to write about a beautiful family again, so I'm trying new things that scare me a little bit, and it's exciting. I love it. And I'm very lucky now that I don't have to have a day job and I can just write and yeah, it's fabulous. 

Zibby: So in the moment where you were taking all this time before work and going to the coffee shop and asking for your husband to take over that period of time of the day and being ruthless and then realizing that your book wasn't good enough and having to move on to another book, how did you maintain momentum. Why didn't, at that point you say, forget it. I tried it. It didn't work. 

Jennifer: Yeah, I did try. There is a sort of horrible grief when you finish a novel and realize it's not what. I hoped it would be. I think I also hadn't figured out how to do a second draft. I just hadn't realized how much you can improve a novel when you do that second draft.

So I was putting a lot of first drafts into the draw. I was actually just really determined that hour and a half every day was, I loved it. It was like a highlight of my day. That, and spending time with my children after school, that was huge for me and I didn't want to give it up. The outcome almost at that stage didn't matter to me quite so much.

I did want to get published one day, but I think I understood that. If I was gonna get published, first of all, I wanted it to be good and that I just needed to do the work and work on my craft and get better. So there were times when I wanted to give up, but I would stop for a little while and then something would come into my head and I'd be, I have to write that.

And the book you haven't written is always the best book ever, right? So you're like, oh, the next one will be amazing. And that carried me along I think. 

Zibby: Oh, I love that. What is the literary scene in New Zealand like? 

Jennifer: Oh, it's very literary, so there is quite a thriving literary scene, but the books that tend to get published here are quite literary, and I didn't see myself fitting that entirely. I could tell that my voice was a little more commercial, which was a little confusing. And for a while that was one of the things I think that was making me put books and draws. I couldn't quite see where this was, where my voice was gonna fit. And that's probably why eventually I did send the book overseas.

The other thing in New Zealand is that there's a strong desire among publishers that you set your books in New Zealand, which is fair enough. And I struggled with that for a while. I don't see myself, I didn't see myself as a landscape writer or someone who was good at setting and I was a bit afraid to tackle it.

And the New Zealand landscape is quite awesome in many ways. And I thought, I dunno if I've got what it tastes like, I don't do that justice. And then I just thought, you've just gotta do it, Jenny. And because this setting in a beautiful family is very familiar to me. I thought maybe I can do this. But yeah, as I say, when the book was finished and I was ready to send it out, I did send it overseas. 'Cause I think my voice was a little more commercial than what tends to get published locally. 

Zibby: There were a couple of things in there. I was like, what is a tog? Is it a sandal?

Jennifer: A dog? 

Zibby: Sandals. 

Jennifer: No. togs are your swimsuit

Zibby: Oh. 

Jennifer: And jandals are sandals with the bit between the toes. 

Zibby: Yeah. Flip flops.

Jennifer: Flip flops, yeah. 

Zibby: Oh.

Jennifer: I'm not surprised that the American editor didn't want me to change that stuff. Yeah, I would've. I would've been. Togs is such a strange word, and I think it might only be New Zealand that calls a swimsuit togs, what do you call a swim suit? 

Zibby: This one? 

Jennifer: Yeah. 

Zibby: Bathing a bathing suit? Yeah. Like a bathing suit or. 

Jennifer: A bathing suit? 

Zibby: Yeah. 

Jennifer: Oh, so that's very fosh. 

Zibby: No, no 

Jennifer: We just say fogs. 

Zibby: Yeah. 

Jennifer: Yeah. 

Zibby: Interesting. Now I'm replaying the scenes where the mom forgot her tos and I was like, I don't know why she couldn't just walk out without shoes, but Okay. Now I understand. Okay. 

Jennifer: Oh dear. I have to have a glossary. Yeah. 

Zibby: So what advice would you give to aspiring authors? 

Jennifer: Oh, where do I start? Oh my gosh. What advice would I give? First of all, I do think it's really important that you're ruthless with your writing time. I do think that you don't necessarily have to write every day, but I think that writing time has to be ringfenced and you must be ruthless about it and not let anything else get in your way because there are so many reasons not to write.

So many. Yeah. And get the people around you to support that if you can. And then I think just, you've gotta be writing about something that you are so excited about. Like I feel like a first draft especially should feel like when you have a crush on someone, and it's this really secret.

Fragile little thing that you've invented that no one else knows about. It's all in your head. And, but it must feel that sort of obsessive. I'm so fascinated with this, I can't let it go. I think if you're not feeling that. You're probably not writing the right story and your reader won't feel it either.

So I think probably those two things, make sure you're really obsessed with your story and make sure you ringfence that time and don't let anything or anyone get in your way if you can. Yeah.

Zibby: I love that. I love the word ruthless when it applies to writing. That's a good word. 

Jennifer: It was actually Elizabeth Strout who said that, and I'm a huge fan of hers, and she said. You have to be ruthless. Ruthless. And she, like me, found success in it later on. And she had children and so I was gobbling up any interview I could find with her and yeah I remember her saying that word, ruthless. 

Zibby: Okay, we will quote her then. Jennifer, thank you so much. Congratulations on a Beautiful Family. 

Jennifer: Aww thank you for reading the book, and thanks for having me. 

Zibby: My pleasure. All right. Take care. Bye-bye. 

Jennifer: Bye.