Renowned Hollywood doula and author Carson Meyer chats with Zibby about her groundbreaking and empowering pregnancy, birth, and early motherhood guide, GROWING TOGETHER. Carson shares the inspiration behind her work, the importance of unpacking birth stories and fears, and the value of building supportive, judgment-free communities for mothers. She also explains the role of a doula, offers guidance for expectant parents and grandparents, and reflects on the boundaries and practices that can make early parenthood more peaceful.

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome, Carson. Thank you so much for coming on Totally Booked with Zibby to talk about Growing Together, Doula Wisdom And Holistic Practices For Pregnancy, Birth, And Early Motherhood A Week By Week Companion. Congrats. 

Carson: Thank you, Zibby. Thanks for having me. 

Zibby: Course. It was so nice doing the event together at the core club. I loved listening to you have a conversation with other fabulous moms for our Mother's Day thing, and I was like, you have to come on my podcast. So here we are. 

Carson: It was so fun.

Zibby: Oh, okay. Your title is pretty self-explanatory, but why don't you talk about the genesis of the book, how it came to be, and then we'll talk about your own story too, which is pretty incredible. 

Carson: Yeah, so the title is very self-explanatory and there's multiple meanings. Of course the growing together that takes place within the mother and child relationship.

But it's really inspired by the growing together that happens within the community circles that I host that are called Growing Together, and it's a group of moms that has now become a community of hundreds of moms who are continuing to grow through every stage of motherhood and early motherhood. Together. But also I think my favorite way that the growth, the growing together title exists for me is in that I consider myself. As a doula and author and at times teacher to be growing together with the mamas who I have the honor and privilege of serving. And I often say with every birth I attend, I know less about birth. And certainly every day of motherhood, less about motherhood. And so the book is very much about, yeah the growing that. And that I continue to do thanks to the women that I work with. 

Zibby: Amazing. How did you get into this line of work? I know you talk about it in the book, but tell everybody your story.

Carson: So I'm, the long story that is in the book is, I believe it started at my own birth or my mother's birth. I became a do at 22, which is generally a little earlier than I think most enter that field. I think a lot of women become a doula because of. Their birth experience gives birth, and that often inspires women to take this path.

But I believe that our birth, how we enter, leaves an unconscious imprinting in us. And that there's a lot there. But between me being born and then me being 22 was 22 years, or, give or take of the years that were, I was petrified, just completely terrified of the concept of motherhood. And so many women in our culture were taught how not to get pregnant, not to get pregnant before we want to, and then there's no curriculum later on that helps us.

Unlearn those fears and untangle those ideas and teach us how to approach the season with reverence and health and confidence. And so I saw the business of being born when I was in college, and that rocked my world. It was the first time I'd ever seen a live depiction of birth. That wasn't the Hollywood portrayal.

And I learned about the healthcare system and our maternal mortality rates and how we've just been doing a disservice to women and babies in the way that we approach birth. 

Zibby: Wow. So what do you think it was about your birth? Your own birth? Do you think that was imprinted on you? And should we all go back and talk to our moms about it? Our own birth story to give more color to later when we have kids? 

Carson: I think so. I think there's a lot of value. One of the first things I have my clients do and the readers do is. It reflects on what we know about birth, what, how do we perceive it? What are the things we've been told, the stories we've been told.

And in that, and just in understanding what we think we can really start to unpack. Demystify the experience Myth, bunk myth. Yeah. Debunk myths around the experience and see where our anxiety lies. Collective anxiety exists and I think that's one of the most important steps in lessening our fears around birth.

And yeah, asking your mother, if you can, even asking your father or other people in your life who are aunts, uncles, grandmothers, knowing how the stories that have been told around your birth impact, what you believe about birth. And for me, I was always told that my birth was an emergency.

And it was really urgent, and I think I know that I can. And for a sense of stress that was there a real sense of stress, emergency or not, that my mom was feeling. And we know when it's well studied, it's not woo that babies are feeling that stress that they're in total communication with.

Their mother's body. We know that there, there's memory that exists in the womb. There's sound recognition and so much imprinting that actually happens before birth. And so even just acknowledging that, I think it actually takes a lot of pressure off women to say, it makes sense that you have fear around birth because you came into this world with a lot of fear around birth, and our grandmothers, many of whom were under twilight sleep.

Giving birth which doesn't remove the pain, it just wipes the conscious memory. But if we recognize that memories are cellular and epigenetics is based off of those experiences that we're holding in our lineage. And so I, I do think it's helpful when we're looking at why we feel the way we do about certain things, to know where it's conception, no pun intended.

And also another thing that was incredibly healing for me in looking at my mom's birth is. I have a big, loving Jewish family, which is, that emphasis of we're all here, we're all in it together. And I had older sisters who I'm so close with and love so much, and we have different mothers.

And so they were at the birth, they had friends from school at the birth. My grandmother came in from birth, my mom had friends and it was a party. And some women love that. But what I've also learned in this process is that a lot of women crave. Privacy and intimacy. Birth is so messy and raw and I often say do you feel comfortable, pooping in front of your in-laws.

Like all the things that can happen in labor. And I do think that a big part of my mom's birth was me, was not having that space. And for me to be able to recognize that and reclaim that later is something I write about with boundaries that can show up at any point in parenthood. 

Zibby: And just to back up for a minute, I'm sure there are moms out there who are like, do I get a doula or not? What exactly does a doula do? What is the difference between a doula and a midwife? Can you just do a quick rundown for that? 

Carson: The doulas and midwives are different in that a doula's role is not clinical. So we don't run labs, we don't listen to the baby. We're not overseeing, aside from maybe giving nutritional advice and lifestyle advice and supplemental we're not overseeing the health of mom and baby from a clinical standpoint, midwives. Catch babies, they would do everything that an OB would do in a low risk pregnancy. So of course, they're not surgeons, they don't perform surgery. But in a home or hospital setting they take the role. The same role in OB would, and in many other countries, women don't even see an OB unless they're high risk. They would just see a midwife, A doula exists in support of mothers, regardless of where and how they're birthing.

So if my client has a midwife at home. The doula still is valuable support or if they're having a planned cesarean with an OB. Still valuable support and we're there to provide that emotional support. The education throughout pregnancy. Advocacy in the birth setting and hands-on support, like comfort measures in labor.

And doulas have clients who have used epidurals and not, but there's still so much support to be had pregnancy, birth, and postpartum, regardless of how you birth. So I think that everybody can benefit from a doula. 

Zibby: I would like a doula now, and my twins are turning 18. Can you be my doula now? Can you have a postpartum? 

Carson: All life.

Zibby: Oh my gosh. Did you personally always know you wanted to be in a giving field of some kind? 

Carson: I didn't, so I set out acting. That was what I was doing in college. And then I have a skincare line called See in the Moon, which is a really happy, wonderful act. 

Zibby: Oh, thank you for the gift by the way. You sent me such nice stuff. Thank you. Thank you. 

Carson: That product was, I, I think indicative and reflective of. My desire to nurture and make people feel good. And I've always been really interested in health and when I was at NYUI was studying the MINDBODY connection through a creative expression.

And that's where I brought in my love for acting. And I have my knitting needles here. 'cause I realized my own mental health and like cathartic energy was released and I worked through in creativity. And so I was really interested in that. Then when I learned about birth work, it became clear that was always my calling, but I didn't know what it was.

Zibby: As a doula, how do you personally stay calm in the face of ratcheted up emotions, pain of someone else? How does that happen, how do you not catch that? How can you be, how do you stay calm? 

Carson: It's such a good question, and. I think I mentor and train doulas now, and it's something we talk about a lot. We're humans too. And so I don't think it's, I don't think that every doula needs to approach this work thinking that they won't ever have their own fears or worries and needs to address. But knowing how. In tune, pregnant women are in labor and how much they are turning to those around them in the space to look for safety, to look for that support and stability.

It is so important for doula to find. Maybe something, be it a practice and constantly being working on grounding themselves and so on, there's been times in my life where I've really struggled with anxiety, and I think that all of those seasons have ultimately been amazing teachers in helping me support other women and do my work.

Zibby: What have you learned from your circles of postpartum moms, like the circles that you have created? What? What do you learn from them? 

Carson: I learned things. I learn things every day from them. I think one biggest, hopefully takeaway from my book is that there's no one way to parent from birth to live, and just having a wide range of experiences and perspectives and being able to share that in a space of love and compassion and.

Helps myself and I, hopefully all the other moms too, realize just how unique we all are and that there's no one right way, and that's what Growing Together is really about. And so those are some of the things I learned. And then, I've had, because I was a doula so long before becoming a mother, some of my clients have become dear friends and I'm literally calling them for advice.

I'll never forget one of my first doula clients who's now about to have her fourth son. And I, yeah, she's. Since becoming a dear friend. I remember breastfeeding for the first time and the first 24 hours I was like, I got this. And then my milk came in and 24 hours of that sensation and all of a sudden my nipples hurt and I was engorged and I was like.

This is so painful. What is going on? There must be something wrong. Remember, I've been a doula for many years and called her and her being like, yeah, like that's normal. It really sucks for a little bit and it'll get better. And I wrote this in the book, but she's try singing a song and know that or the ABCs like know that when you get to a certain point that pain will subside, but it's also gonna help you take that deep breath, take your mind off of the pain, don't let your baby see, and not like Ooh, too often because they're gonna pick up on that.

And just having that cheerleader and that encouragement and it was so sweet that it came from, yeah, a mom and a friend who I'd been there for on the other side. 

Zibby: I haven't even said this out loud before, but I've started doing the same thing in my head, counting, not with the letters, but when I'm worried something's gonna take too long, or it's like frustrating me. I like, how long is this actually gonna take? And then I'm like, I'm just gonna count and test myself. And sometimes it literally takes three seconds. Things that I feel like are forever. Like if something's bothering me, or even if someone's running late and I'm annoyed about it, I'm like, if I just count, maybe it'll only be one minute and it's not worth it. 

Carson: Oh, I love that. And I'm that way too. I'm so punctual time and I really have, I can totally relate to that relationship with time and that can be a big challenge to overcome as a mom, because as you, like it's, first of all, when it comes to birth and the milestones, all this time doesn't exist in the same way it does when we're, in other. Capacities and working in different areas of our life, and I'm learning that too. Practicing that too. 

Zibby: Yeah. I remember like I had to pump during a wedding or something and I had to do it for 10 minutes and I was like, wait a minute. You can't rush 10 minutes. No matter how anxious I am, 10 minutes is just gonna be 10 minutes.

Carson: Exactly. And our experience of the 10 minutes is all we can really..

Zibby: Exactly. Exactly. 

Carson: I have a two and a half year old, so I'm also working on the not rushing her taking three hours to get from the door to the car and like balance between like we have to get somewhere and oh my gosh, a grain of sand was discovered and, but there's so much magic and so much we can learn from them in their ability to like just drop into what we think is completely meaningless or a waste of time. And so I'm trying to embrace that stillness. 

Zibby: So how did you approach the book? You could have done it a bazillion ways. Why the week by week companion? Tell me about the structure of that. 

Carson: Yeah, so I, I really felt like in a post Instagram world,..

Zibby: Wait, is this the post Instagram world? What fuck has come out since instagram has been right?

Carson: Is that the right way of saying it? 

Zibby: Oh, I thought you meant like after Instagram goes away or something. 

Carson: No. Like a post. 

Zibby: Oh, post the invention of Instagram. Oh in an Instagram world, yes. Okay. 

Carson: I guess it's just Instagram. 

Zibby: Whatever. 

Carson: Before and after that I can remember. 

Zibby: Yes. 

Carson: And there's a less attention span I think for a lot of us. And I, there's some women like myself who are complete birth book nerds and they wanna read every book about birth that's ever been written. That's my bookshelf. And then clients who have many who are just like, just tell me the one book. What is one book? This is not, I'm not studying for an SAT.

And I respect that. I admire that. They're like. Just wanting to be more present, but wanna gather some information. And so I wanted to create something that had a little bit of everything so they weren't having to read a book on breastfeeding, a book on postpartum, a book on sleep, a book on pregnancy, but something that they could really get a taste for all of it.

And then whatever they wanted to continue on, they could go deeper in. But I liked the week by week structure because it gives this. The bite size information and it gives you time to reflect on it. And then another part of the book that I really love, I think sets it apart is there's weekly activities and journal prompts so that you can take the information that you're reading and then hopefully integrate it into your life and reflect on it before moving to the next week. But some people will, and of course, have discovered the book later in pregnancy, and it's also designed to be read through for the voracious readers like self. 

Zibby: What do you do to allay the fears of the pre-birth moms? I don't know how to say that correctly either, but you're getting closer to giving birth. You're freaking out. How do you reassure pregnant moms that it's not gonna be so bad when you don't actually even know that? 

Carson: Yeah, I think that there's. This is where the activities really come in as so valuable. As we talked about going all the way back to where your fears are, what are your fears, where are they coming from?

Identifying them and talking about them. We don't have to suppress or pretend that we don't have fears, and I also don't think it's reasonable to say you're gonna walk into. Process, having zero, any new experience is gonna come with jitters. And that's normal. It's so normal to fear the unknown.

And I do think that this experience comes with so much fear because we're so keenly aware of the magnitude of creating life. It's so big. And so I do think that like demystifying it, knowledge is power, understanding it, creating community around it is huge and recognizing again, where are your fears? Where are your fears? Where are your partners? Where are everyone else's, and where do those exist? And then what's the difference between fear and discernment?

'Cause sometimes fear arises to be of service to us, and we don't wanna just block it out. We wanna be able to listen to that intuition and to those fears and find support for them. And then sometimes the fear doesn't serve us and to know and be able to have tools for letting those fall by the wayside. 

Zibby: What advice can you give to grandparents? Because sometimes grandparents are listening to the show and they've already had their babies long ago, but maybe they wanna coach their daughter-in-law, or their daughter or friends or something. What can you do as a bystander to really help others? 

Carson: Yeah, I love that question. I think for grandparents and working with so many grandparents too, knowing it can be a challenge to know where and how to bring your wisdom into it without any overstepping or feeling one way. And so I really, I invite grandparents. The book is a great resource. For them too, to be able to again, do this exact same activity check, where are your anxieties? Where might you be feeling fear about how your child is choosing to do something or birth a certain way. And, respecting the boundaries and the choice and how they might differ from yours is so valuable because I think it's gonna allow you to show up in a way of truly being in service without bringing in your own fears, which is one of the greatest gifts you can give somebody else.

And then on a more practical note, I talk a lot about the book, how we don't have a lot of tools in our culture, or we just don't have a strong culture of postpartum support. And we look back in our history, it doesn't, it's not there like it is in a lot of the eastern cultures and to, to read those books, to understand, the foods and some of the traditions that are really valuable for healing. The mother and I talk a lot about mothering the mother and that one of the best ways anyone can show up for a new mom postpartum is not necessarily coming over to hold the baby.

Everyone wants to hold the baby and be with the baby, and it's so sweet. And as I always say to everyone, like as babies get older. Parents are gonna want you to hold their baby more and more. But in those early days and weeks, and especially when Breastfeeding's becoming established and it's all so new, the more you can help helping Incapacities outside of just..

Baby, around the home cooking, making sure the dog is walked like this, goes such a long way. And it also really honors that mother baby dyad that's so important. 

Zibby: That's so true. I remember one time my mom just came over and was like, straightening the room and doing the dishes, and I was like, thank you. That's so nice. 

Carson: Understood. And I, this is completely taboo in our culture too, and I talk about it in the book and not right for everyone, but I like to share it because I think people are like, wow there's different ways for a loving family to do this.

We didn't invite our family or anybody into our home for three weeks. And this was easier for us 'cause we live across the country from our family now. I think, had we lived closer, it probably would've been sooner, but because we knew that opening our doors to family would mean having guests, we live so far away. It wouldn't just be a short visit. We really decided to like it. To have this time of integration was just us where we could rest and get into the flow and get to know ourselves as new parents before we brought another energy. And fortunately, I had a family who really respected those boundaries and celebrated what we wanted.

And I know it can be a hard conversation and so I talk about that in the book. It's not gonna be right for everyone. But if you know that your. Parents are not gonna be the ones who are cooking and cleaning, but more of just like the lovey-dovey grandparents who we need and love. It's okay to ask for the help you need if it's not gonna come automatically. And it's okay to have boundaries and space and to welcome them in when you feel ready. 

Zibby: I love that. And what are you thinking in terms of. Your career going forward. You have the book here, this renowned doula, like where is it going, what are you excited for? What challenges are you up for that you haven't faced yet?

Carson: I'm continuing my circles, which I love so much and continuing to grow the growing together community and maybe some other books. In the future as well. But I feel really fortunate that I can do what I love while being in my early motherhood season. And I am also excited to return back to the birth space once my baby and future babies are a little bit more independent. 'Cause it's one of those jobs that, sometimes you're on a 40 hour shift with, and you don't know it. 

Zibby: How do you even stay awake? Is it all the adrenaline? 

Carson: Coffee and adrenaline. And I, that's also why I chose to step back from attending births in my,.. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Carson: In the season of, you don't get a ton of sleep as a new mom to begin with. Yeah, I, yeah, it'll be harder for me to stay up for those 40 hour stretches. 

Zibby: And has anything happened so far in the book process? You are birthing a book too. Anything different that's happened in this process than you expected or something really wonderful? 

Carson: It's been really special to share it. And also, as you know too, there's something so scary sometimes about being vulnerable and when you're writing it, it's just you and the computer and so I felt like I, it's such an honest and vulnerable portrayal of motherhood that I don't think I could have written at any other time. I wrote it in my postpartum season, but it's been so pleasantly surprised by just the support of.

Of other authors and friends and strangers. That's been so beautiful. I think, no, nobody understands, like an author, what it takes to, similar to mothers. Like only. 

Like only a mother fully understands what it takes to birth a child and only an author understands like really what it takes to birth a book. And so it's just been so nice to have the support of other new authors, friends, and women like you in the space. 

Zibby: Oh, thank you. Carson, thank you. Thank you for coming on. Thank you for this book and for doing our event together and everything else. You are such a special soul and such an old soul and so wise, and it's great. I just feel calmer just being in your aura. 

Carson: Zibby it was so nice to meet you. I so admire your work and message and everything, so it was exciting. 

Zibby: Thank you. 

Carson: Thank you. 

Zibby: Okay. Thanks Carson. Bye.