Zibby chats with bestselling author and speaker Amber Rae about her deeply intimate, raw, and courageous memoir, LOVEABLE: One Woman’s Path from Good to Free. Amber shares the emotional journey behind her decision to leave a “good on paper” marriage in pursuit of true connection and joy. (While building a home with her husband in Mexico, she met the man she knew she was meant to spend the rest of her life with.) She and Zibby unpack generational patterns, the difference between selfishness and self-honoring, navigating sexual insecurity, and how synchronicity and spirituality guided her toward a new life.

Transcript:

Zibby: Welcome, Amber. Thanks so much for coming on Totally Booked to talk about Lovable or Love Able, we could discuss one path from good to free. Congratulations. 

Amber: Thank you so much. You're the only person to read the title both ways, and I appreciate that deeply about you.

Zibby: Oh my gosh, I, well, when you mentioned it, I hadn't thought about it until the end when you were talking about like, are we able to love, are we able to accept love of ourselves? And I was like, oh my gosh, love able. That's amazing. And then I noticed the underline and I was like, I get it. I totally get it.

You actually tell us in the book, and I just wanna read this little thing about why you wrote the book, and then I want you to, you know, expand on that. But in your page called baskets, you say, an old proverb says that when we come into this life, our parents hand us two baskets, one full of burdens, and another full of blessings.

It is our task to lighten our basket of burdens and add to our basket of blessings. At the end of our lives, we hand down our own baskets to the next generation. Why are you writing this book? People often ask me because I need to, I say. The real answer is this, I'm writing this book for me so I can heal, so I can lighten my basket of burdens by making sense of my history, so I can hopefully pass on more blessings to my children.

Amber: Hmm. 

Zibby: I love that. 

Amber: Yeah. I love how I said children. 

Zibby: I know, right? 

Amber: I only currently have one. I'm like, that's interesting because you have one and you're like, can I really do this again? 

Zibby: Let's delve. Let's delve into that. Shall we? Should we come? 

Amber: You do have four. 

Zibby: Let's come up Christine. 

Amber: You have four. 

Zibby: So get Christine in our zoom room. Need a little therapy, right? Oh my gosh. Okay, so you tell listeners this sort, this extraordinary moment, this change of your life, this decision you made that affected so much else, and the uncovering of so much of what you had in the past. Just talk about the whole thing. 

Amber: Yeah. So four years ago while married, I met the person that I knew I was meant to spend my life with and little context. It was a unfulfilling. Marriage. I was married to my best friend who was never my romantic partner, and I was desperately trying to convince myself that he was my person and we could make this work and I can make this work. And if I just try harder and put more time in and do more therapy and read another book, you know, we'll make my business partner.

We'll figure it out. And it was one of those instant sliding door moments where I met this other person and I had this kind of electric bloom inside me of. Okay, this is what it's supposed to feel like. And it felt like Hello again. It felt like this, you know, they say love at first sight. It really felt like recognition at first sight.

Like, I see you and I know you, and even though I don't know you, I love all of who you are. And it felt like we both were kind of feeling that and. It, that moment kind of woke me from my slumber because it's so easy for me to say now that, oh, he's my best friend, not my romantic partner, da da da. Um, in hindsight, but I was still trying to convince, I was still very much in the convincing, and so when I met him, it was like that whole house of cards burned down and I suddenly was seeing reality very accurately.

Zibby: Oh my gosh. Well, the, the subtle questioning, I mean, that is marriage if you're, you're in this institution forever. And if it's not going well, like the work you're talking about, like that's what everyone kind of has to question. I don't know all the time. 

Amber: Yeah. 

Zibby: And you said for context, by the way, I'm divorced and remarried and had.

Amber: Okay.

Zibby: I won't even go into details, but I, I found my soulmate as well the second time. So I related.. 

Amber: Yay.

Zibby: To your story. I know. It's so fun. Hold on. I wanted to read one more passage, if you don't mind. Hold on. 

Amber: Of course. 

Zibby: So when you talk about the lack of acknowledgement that when you're in a marriage that maybe isn't. Fulfilling. You're grieving the loss of the expectation of a fulfilling marriage all along. 

Amber: Yeah. 

Zibby: So you can actually be ready for the next thing because you don't have to go through that and you write that better than I just rambled it. But you say he stands, grabs his bag and looks back at me one last time before he walks out the front door. I expect grief to overwhelm me in this moment, but instead, I met with relief. I realized later that the gnawing ache that had been growing in me slowly and steadily over the years, that was grief. The hundreds of micro moments of saying it's fine when it was really not fine. The constant pleading for emotional connection for meaningful time together.

Telling him again and again that I needed his actions and words to line up so I could feel safe only to be disappointed time and time again when they didn't. The truth is I have already processed this loss, the anger, the sadness, the disappointment, the hope, the despair. I grieved our marriage while I was in it, and now that I've spoken my truth. I feel free and at peace. I love that so much. It's so good. It totally..

Amber: Thank you. 

Zibby: Explains so much. Tell me more about that. Just.

Amber: Yeah. You know, I expected when he left to feel, you know, I almost like was like. Am I, should I, I was almost like, there's almost shame there that I didn't feel grief or didn't feel more sadness about it ending, but it was the realization that like, wait, no, I grieve this in it.

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Amber: And I think, you know, when I, when I share that with women, it's been interesting to hear how many women are like, oh my God, I've been grieving it too. And you know, I, I, I just. I don't know if that has to do with our conditioning, you know, the good girl, the tolerating I'm gonna please, I'm gonna harmonize, I'm not gonna rock the boat.

I'm gonna try to make this work. But, but yeah. You know, when I finally made the decision of I am going to honor myself, I am not going to disappoint myself, and I'm gonna have to tolerate the discomfort of disappointing someone and hurting someone that I do care about and love, but who's not right for me.

It's the amount of peace there. It's like, oh, you know the relief there of you have spent so much time just pushing down what's important to you. And it was like my soul and my spirit and my body and everything were kind of like finally you know. Like you did the thing. Yes. Like we don't need to keep feeling all of those feelings now we're just gonna like, you did it. This is right. This is true. This is aligned. Let's go. 

Zibby: It's so amazing. And the fact that you found him, that there were so many coincidences. I mean, your book made me feel like the universe has my back. Do you know what I mean? 

Amber: Mm. 

Zibby: Like all these dreams where people visited you and the messenger. And the messenger and the psychic and like just like the same middle names. Like it just every chapter there was something else that like. 

Amber: Yeah. 

Zibby: Made you too destined. So how do you feel. About, I mean, I know this can sound a little woowoo to some people, right? 

Amber: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Zibby: But like, how do you feel about that? Are like, just make sense of it for me. 

Amber: Well, it, it's funny because I had to leave a lot of synchronicities and serendipities out of the book because there were so many, I, I kept saying like, to a girlfriend and even to John, I was like, I feel like I am in a film and at any moment.

I'm gonna see a camera set, or like Ashton Kutcher is gonna come running out and being like, punked. You know, it was like, and if I had put all of the serendipities into the book, it would've made way too cheesy of a book that like, would've just been a terrible read. So I like, you know, I tried to like weave some of them in because they were, they were true, but you know, it was.

The wildest experience I ever had in my life in terms of serendipities. And you know, if I told you the name of my ex-husband's new wife, you would be like, I'm sorry, what? But we'll leave that out. 

Zibby: Wait, no. Now I need to know. Put it in the zoom chat or something. 

Amber: Her and I share a last name and a same first initial.

Zibby: Oh my God. 

Amber: Yeah. And so it's just, you know, it's, it's, it's like the universe, like it's just like, it was bizarre. And I feel like. Because, you know, and I'm, I consider myself a spiritual person, and I, I've always been someone who kind of like, looks to clues and signs. I do. You know, my father died when I was young and I, I feel a greater connection with him since he passed. Like, he got in a car accident when I was three and had a traumatic brain injury. And so I was not capable of having a connection with me while I was here or while he was here. And so I, I, I do feel his presence now that he's gone. And so, you know, I've, I've had those feelings, but it was as if the universe was like.

We're gonna make sure you pay attention. We are not going to let this pass you by. We're gonna be like obnoxious. Like the shooting star, the right moment, you know, kinda, we're gonna make you be like, okay, I'm listening. And so the, my experience as all of these, these, these things were unfolding was, okay. I hear you.

I'm listening. I've got it. Like message received. And it's funny, you know, John's last name being Messenger, you know, literally is like, and, and our, our son was born on ten four, which means, you know. Ten four message received and so. It's just, I feel like I was like, message received. I hear you. I'm listening. Yes. I'm not gonna keep ignoring myself and ignoring my intuition. I'm going to act, I'm going to listen. 

Zibby: It's amazing. 

You know, you share in the book really openly in a way that. I haven't read anywhere else about your own insecurity, about your body and sexuality, right? Like John had been with all these women in the past, I'm sure most, I mean, I, I, that sounds bad.

I mean, including some you pictures of, I mean he's, I'm, you know, whatever. Anyway, you're not the only one who like worries right? About exes. That's why everybody's like stalking all their exes..

Amber: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Zibby: On Facebook, whatever. Anyway, so you came into it with a sense of. Sexual insecurity. Not sure what you were gonna do. Were you doing it right? 

Amber: Yeah. 

Zibby: Like how would you do it? Asking a friend for that. Really funny advice. 

Amber: Yeah. 

Zibby: Like talk about that moment, but also. Putting it down into this book, like do you, how do you feel about it now? Like do you get embarrassed or not embarrassed? 

Amber: I mean, I remember recording the audio book and I was blushing in moments. I'm actually, I'm actually recording a video with a friend tonight of moments. I am nervous that are going to be published. Because, you know, it's, it's one thing to like write your truth alone, and now the world's gonna read it. And you know, my husband's like telling his sister and mom, okay, there's these two chapters in the book you might wanna skip over.

And they're like, we're not skipping over. But he is like, uh, you know, it's, it's, and, and there were, you know. Here I was in a nine year sexless marriage, and I leave that marriage, and now I'm with someone who's very connected to a sexuality, and I feel so disconnected from that part of myself. And so it was terrifying because I was like, oh no, if I can't, you know, I. The narrative was, if I can't satisfy John, will he still wanna stay? And so there was, I was not prepared for the gamut of fears and anxieties and insecurities that were going to arise when I finally stepped into relationship with my person. But you know, I guess that's what relationships do. They inspire our.growth.

Zibby: Well, it, it was really wonderful to have you say it because I'm sure people following you or reading it or look at you like would think like, oh, well I'm sure she, well, she, what does she have to worry about? You know, it's, but compare it to me or whatever. And everyone, you're being able to say, it just makes everybody feel better. I just know it, so. 

Amber: Oh, good. Thank you. 

Zibby: Um, you also go back and really unpack. All like this is like a masterclass in unpacking like the trauma of youth and putting yourself back together, you literally like peel every piece of the onion and figure out like what need young, you was not getting filled. How do you go forward? Why do you pick a partner based on what you didn't get? Like what do you do with all that information now that you have it about yourself? Like I know you can live more freely, but just tell me more about that. 

Amber: Yeah, I can absolutely live more freely. I also just feel like I'm making more conscious choices.

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Amber: Because on the other side of that nine year relationship here, I was a person in the world writing books and speaking on stages about following your intuition and living your most authentic life. And I was doing that in my career, but like I wasn't doing that in my relationship. So here I was like giving wisdom and not applying it to an area of my life, and not because I was. Intentionally pretending, but because it was unconscious. 

Zibby: Mm-hmm. 

Amber: And because I didn't realize the patterns that had had been driving my behavior. And so when I left that relationship, I was like, how the hell did I get here? What like. Did I really just like put up with that for nine years and like, he's a wonderful person.

But like, did I, did, did we put up with that di? Like why did I put up with that dynamic? And I needed to understand for just my own like person and woman. How I had gotten there and what had led to that. And so of course that's where a lot of the unpacking comes about. But you know, the, the process and even just writing this book, 'cause it helped me process and connect the dots so much.

It was like I was connecting dots as I was writing stories. Like, oh God, that's what, oh, ooh, ah, ah. And it just, I think, has me being more aware makes me make choices that are actually right and true and helps me live a more intentional and honest life, which I think is reflected in everything that I create and in the life I wanna lead and everything else.

Zibby: That's amazing. Oh my gosh, so good. When you talk about your grandparents and your relationship with them, and there's this fabulous moment where Graham is telling you, okay, just like block your.. 

Amber: Yeah. 

Zibby: Stepdad and you're like, i'm gonna block him, and I'm like, go Graham. Like who are we casting in the movie? For Graham in this, in this scenario, right?

It was so awesome. Like septic or whatever, like leading role. Tell me a little bit about, you know, when you think about your grandparents and this sort of inherited all the stuff that trickles down, like just how do you feel about those roles in your family and, and also, you know, I know in the book you talked about. Doing podcast interviews and like having a secret and feeling uncomfortable and not wanting to get off. So I'm hoping that you do not feel like that in this conversation. 

Amber: There are no secrets. 

Zibby: Okay. 

Amber: There are no secrets. 

Zibby: All right. Good. Just saying you could spell 'em now, like it's totally fine. So anyway..

Amber: I mean, I feel like I spilled, I like told you the name. I was like, maybe I shouldn't have said the secret of the, the new wife in her name. I was like, maybe I, that was the only thing. I was like, maybe I shouldn't have said that. 

Zibby: You should say whatever. It's all good. It's all good. But tell me a little more about Graham and the effects of, you know, her and being cheated on and standing up to that, and then your mom and her relationship, and then you and your relationships.

Like how do you make sure, like you have your new baby August, like how do you, what are you gonna teach him? Like how do you, is this something you can teach or are these things just so inherited? I'm kind of rambling here. 

Amber: Yeah, I think it's things that we have to model and so this also answers your last question around like, why did I heal? And it was like, because I wanted to model to my son nervous system regulation because I wanted to model to my future children. What real love looks like because I, you know, I, how, what it takes to make the hard choices, to be okay with disappointing others so you don't disappoint yourself in all of those things.

But my gram, you know, she was, oh, she's just like the warmest blanket. My gram is, you know, we were, we've been so close. We're still so close. I'm so grateful she's still here, was able to meet my son and, you know, I was. Raised by a single mama entrepreneur who had me very young, and my grandmother had her very young, and we were kind of like this little, like the three of us.

And. When I did leave and was on the other side of that nine year relationship, asking myself, how the hell did I get here? One of the questions I asked is, what did I learn about love? And then had me get really curious and realize that all of the women in my family line that I know of have been left by men in very betrayed ways, but also they betrayed themselves because they overstay.

And they stayed in dynamics and situations that they knew they had outgrown or were not right or you know, for whatever reason. But they didn't either, in their words, have the emotional strength, the financial resources, or even the like internal knowing to leave. And so they waited until the man left in, you know, a betraying way.

So, you know, my grandfather on one side, you know. Had an affair, many affairs, and eventually left my grandmother for the secretary. My other grandfather left grandmother for the best friend, you know, so there were, there were all these stories I realized like, wow, okay. Our, our family line, story of love actually is with a little, a lot of hurt and heartbreak. And, and, but it's also because no one was really being honest. No one was voicing what was most true. No one was, maybe they didn't know their needs, they couldn't speak their needs, you know, everything else. And so, you know, I know the question was about Graham, but it was very curious to just, to look at that larger story and to be like. I'm gonna, I don't want that to be the story. You know? If I would've had a child, thank God I didn't, with my ex-partner, like, I'm curious, maybe I would've continued that family legacy. Maybe, you know, we would've not that anything's wrong with divorce. I think, you know, people are like, I stayed for the kids.

I'm like, don't stay for the kids. The kids don't want you to stay. These kids want to, you see you living your most authentic life. Anyway. I'm rambling. 

Zibby: You talk about feeling selfish for. Articulating your own needs and how there's this whole trope of this selfish woman who leaves the husband to pursue love. How do you get people to realize, like how you wrote it, that it isn't necessarily selfish to give yourself joy and all of that? Why don't you say it better? 

Amber: Well, no one benefits. No one wants to be in a relationship with someone who's half in, half out. So, you know, and no one benefits when we are not prioritizing our needs, not valuing our wants, not choosing ourselves, not honoring ourselves like it impacts.

The self and it impacts the couple. And so choosing yourself, choosing your joy, choosing what lights you up, choosing what moves you, um, choosing to speak your needs, choosing to have the hard conversations is not selfish, I don't believe. I think it's self-honoring. And I think our culture has a lot of issue with women who are self-honoring because the narrative is that you put yourself last and you know, I invite.

How do we actually, the, you know, the, the plain oxygen mask, you know, I gotta put my oxygen mask on first. I have to honor myself so that I can fully show up for everyone else. All right. 

Zibby: I'm gonna use that from now on. Anytime selfish gets bandied about in any context, I'm gonna go right to self-honoring.

Amber: Yeah, yeah. Self-honoring. Yeah. It's like what would the world, what would the world be if everyone honored their joy? Honored. What moved them, honored their needs, like I think we would have a far more beautiful, vibrant, less violent. Joyful world. 

Zibby: Hard to be more violent and like it's hard. It's not, it's not getting any worse. No, I shouldn't say that. Um, anyway. 

Amber: Did I say more violent? I meant less violent. 

Zibby: No, no, no. I'm saying it's important. 

Amber: Yeah, yeah. 

Zibby: Like I feel like we're 

at the, anyway. You write in the acknowledgements that you're grateful to John because he's very private person for letting you write this. And I was really surprised, honestly, to read that at the end because everything was so open and there. Yeah, tell me about that. 

Amber: Yeah, I mean, thank God he is an artist because he believes you can't get in the way of art. And he really saw this book and the way it moved me and the, that my urgency to tell it and that like knowing of this is the story I have to tell. And he honored that. To be honest, he stayed completely out of my creative process early on.

And for good reason. Early on I'd be like, can I read you a draft? And it was like, I was like, do you like it? It's good. You know? And it was like, and he's like, I don't feel like it's helpful for me to be in your writing and editing process and I don't want you looking to me of like, do you think this is good enough? 'Cause like also he has very different literary taste than I do. And he's like, you need to write this book in the way that is right and true for you. And you can like, let me read a draft at the very end. So I literally, and thank God he, yeah, because I was a little like frustrated at first. I was like, I wanna share my cre, the cre, my creative work is such a part of me, I wanna share it with you.

He's like, talk to me about the process, but I don't know if you have to like read the words. And he was like very, had a very clear boundary around that. I, oh, I'm so glad because I probably would've written a different book. 'cause I didn't wanna be like, will John think this essay is okay? Like, I mean, the sex scenes I wrote, like the, the, the scene, I would, you know, no, he would've been like, I absolutely not. I'm so uncomfortable with that, you know? And I then just wrote it in the way that I wanted to write it and in the way that I wanted to tell it. And you know, he was the first reader of the final thing and. He was like, this is very, you know, this is uncomfortable, but also I like, love you. I believe in your art and I support, I support this, you know, being out there.

So I was just, and he is, he's such a private person. So it's been, it's, it's been it know. It's been interesting, but it's, it's also, I feel like encouraging, like opening things for him, like mm-hmm. You know, bringing more vulnerability into his work because, you know, his, I can't, there's, without going into too much detail, like his art actually kind of explores different personas in different, what are they called?

You know, when like an artist has a different name. 

Zibby: What do you mean? Different medium or something? Or.

Amber: Like syn synonym. Anyway, but like it...

Zibby: The pseudonym. 

Amber: Pseudonym. thank you. 

Zibby: Pseudonym. 

Amber: Yes. It's bringing more, I feel like, vulnerability into his work. So it's cool to see how we, you know, push and influence one another.

Zibby: Is he gonna come with you on your book tour? I feel like he'll be a hit. 

Amber: He will be coming on the book tour and so August be coming another Victoria. 

Zibby: Oh, yay. 

Amber: Yeah. 

Zibby: Oh. yeah. Amazing. Um, well, Amber, I loved this book so much. I feel like you and John and my husband Kyle, and I should like, go to dinner. We could share stories that we can't share on the podcast, um, or something really fun. Anyway, thank you for sharing. Thank you for your authenticity and I just loved it. And it's been great getting to know you. 

Amber: Thank you. Thanks. Same. 

Zibby: Okay. All right, well take care. 

Amber: Yay. Yeah, you too. And I'll see you in.. 

Zibby: I'll see you with the book starts. 

Amber: Exactly. 

Zibby: Yeah. I can't wait. 

Amber: All right Yeah. 

Zibby: Alright. Okay. Bye.

Amber: All right, yeah. Take care.